17:59:24 <h01ger> #startmeeting
17:59:24 <MeetBot> Meeting started Fri Apr 20 17:59:24 2018 UTC.  The chair is h01ger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:24 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:28 * petn-randall waves
17:59:36 <h01ger> #chair petn-randall
17:59:36 <MeetBot> Current chairs: h01ger petn-randall
17:59:48 * h01ger waves back ;)
18:00:32 <petn-randall> MeetBot: pingall IRC meeting commencing
18:00:32 <MeetBot> IRC meeting commencing
18:00:32 <MeetBot> azeem coldtobi dario` debacle DLange DNS edward fbartels fil Ganneff h01ger jcowgill joostvb jwnx[m] lamby larjona LStranger marga Mechtilde MeetBot nattie olasd petn-randall Rhonda satta serpent siamezzze thkoch_ tosch_ valhalla viccuad
18:00:32 <MeetBot> IRC meeting commencing
18:01:00 <petn-randall> Any topics we want to talk about?
18:01:15 <petn-randall> h01ger: You probably have a few on the list.
18:01:25 <h01ger> content, sponsors, video, is what i can think of immediatly
18:01:45 * h01ger just came back from 2h shopping, gimme 3-5min to arrive
18:02:00 <petn-randall> I'll add talk schedule, and visa applications to that list.
18:02:02 <thkoch_> Does nattie need help at the frontdesk? I could ask my wife whether she wants to help
18:02:05 <h01ger> #topic please say hi/wave/foo if you are here && collecting agenda items
18:02:17 <petn-randall> h01ger: No worries, it'll probably take a moment for everyone to notice the ping.
18:02:34 <h01ger> preliminary agenda: content / talk schedule, sponsors, video, visa, next meeting
18:02:57 * h01ger looks up last meetings log and the wiki todo section
18:03:57 <h01ger> oh wow, seems we didnt use meetbot for any meeting before
18:04:36 <h01ger> preliminary agenda: content / talk schedule, sponsors, video, visa, logo, next meeting
18:06:27 <petn-randall> No nattie?
18:07:05 <lamby> Good evening
18:07:19 <h01ger> hi lamby
18:07:38 * h01ger will wait 2 more minutes and then aim for 50min for those 6 topics
18:07:51 <h01ger> (though i have more time if needed)
18:08:22 <h01ger> preliminary agenda: status updates: general, content / talk schedule, sponsors, video, visa, logo, next meeting
18:08:52 <h01ger> preliminary agenda: status updates: general/misc, content / talk schedule, budget/sponsors, video, visa, logo, next meeting
18:09:08 <h01ger> preliminary agenda: status updates: general/misc, content / talk schedule, budget/sponsors, video, visa, logo, next meeting, aob
18:09:36 <h01ger> #topic general/misc status updates
18:10:03 <h01ger> we have 65 registrations now and a new sprint, debian-perl, it seems
18:10:38 <h01ger> we general can need use more help with frontdesk, i think, thkoch_ (but nattie is authoritive on this)
18:11:27 <h01ger> i've spoken with the cantina, and they look forward to cook for us, and are also fine with individual people paying their meals (=they can handle that)
18:12:10 <h01ger> though maybe we want to establish some system so people can pay once for all meals. (people will need to pay for their meals, i dont think we'll have food sponsoring, unless we get a lot more sponsors, but thats a later point)
18:12:36 <h01ger> cantina will/can also be open in the evenings and serve/sell beer, coffee and other beverages
18:12:48 <h01ger> thats all from me on misc :)
18:13:03 <lamby> Everything will be cash, as this is .de, right?
18:13:22 <lamby> (might be worth a note on the wiki. I come from a card-centric place so would just assume that would Just Work)
18:13:31 <lamby> (* would assume incorrectly)
18:13:55 <h01ger> cantina will be cash, but iirc dock europe (accomodation) can be paid with card
18:14:16 * h01ger takes a note in the wiki
18:15:11 <h01ger> done
18:15:58 <h01ger> #topic content / talk schedule
18:16:10 <h01ger> how is that going?
18:16:47 <h01ger> petn-randall: azeem: marga: ^
18:16:50 <petn-randall> We've got a couple of cfp responses, however the deadline is until April 30.
18:17:29 <petn-randall> However, I'd get up the schedule up shortly after that, since a lot of people already asked if their talk got accepted or not.
18:18:31 <petn-randall> Which to some extent might also affect visa applications, I don't know if giving a talk is a pro/con for accepting a visa application by German authorities.
18:18:33 * h01ger nods
18:18:43 <h01ger> cool
18:18:50 * h01ger still needs to submit a talk or two
18:19:14 <h01ger> though if i fail with that i have more time during the minidebconf ;)
18:19:32 <h01ger> petn-randall: anything else / to add or next topic?
18:19:36 <petn-randall> There's also at least one talk I recall that from the style didn't sound quite fitting, azeem, marga and I should discuss this though, and give feedback early.
18:20:21 <h01ger> cool
18:20:21 <petn-randall> Part of the talk was "dirty tricks to get the developer to respond to your bug reports", we might need some feedback on this before we ACK/NAK the talk.
18:20:39 <h01ger> will there be lightning talks?
18:20:49 <petn-randall> Yes, IIRC nattie wanted to organize them.
18:20:51 <h01ger> shall we have a newbee session?
18:21:04 <h01ger> shall we have a debconf/debian newbee session?
18:21:29 <petn-randall> What is that exactly? For Debian newbies, or Debconf newbies?
18:21:59 <h01ger> both? :)
18:22:04 <petn-randall> Heh :)
18:22:16 <h01ger> maybe its something more for wed/thu/fri
18:22:36 <h01ger> the minidebconf in brazil reminded me that this would be a good idea
18:23:17 <petn-randall> I'd be up, but I don't think I can wear the orga hat for this, I already plan on giving a talk + workshop myself.
18:23:25 * h01ger nods
18:23:34 <h01ger> i have added it in  the wiki todo section
18:24:21 <h01ger> #info we would like to have newbee sessions (maybe wed/thu/fri, maybe rather on sat or sun) - please shout if you want to (help) organize those
18:24:32 <h01ger> next topic?
18:24:33 <azeem> sorry, am here
18:24:40 <h01ger> hey azeem
18:24:44 <petn-randall> hi azeem
18:25:01 * h01ger waits a moment (with moving to next topic) so azeem can arrive/read backlog
18:25:16 <azeem> should we make cfp reminder?
18:25:19 <azeem> now would be the time
18:25:36 <h01ger> i think that would be great
18:25:47 <lamby> (Usually spelt "newbie", just in case you were printing t-shirts :p)
18:25:47 <h01ger> cause thats also a registration reminder
18:25:49 <azeem> question is what forum, the cfp went out to d-d-a
18:26:08 <azeem> I think, are we spamming that too much if we send it there again?
18:26:21 <h01ger> lamby: thanks, fixed the wiki
18:26:45 <petn-randall> azeem: Sounds good. Do you want to send one around? d-d-a, debconf, IIRC some de ML too.
18:26:51 <h01ger> azeem: i think its fine, it would be the 2nd or 3rd mail. (which imo is ok to announce a minidebconf.)
18:26:58 <azeem> ok then
18:27:10 <petn-randall> It would be the 2nd round, I only sent one round to various ML.
18:27:22 <h01ger> #info azeem will send out a cfp/registration reminder
18:27:23 <petn-randall> Just make the deadline a bit more prominent :)
18:27:30 <h01ger> nattie: do we still have some spare beds?
18:27:40 <h01ger> (afaik we do, and maybe we can mention this in the cfp)
18:27:45 <h01ger> (afaik we do, and maybe we can mention this in the cfp reminder)
18:27:48 <petn-randall> azeem: Any opinion on the timeline to get the schedule up?
18:28:09 <petn-randall> I'd like to have it shortly after April 30, max a week later.
18:28:10 <azeem> I think ASAP after the end of the cfp would be good
18:28:44 <lamby> As someone who fills in CfPs a fair amount, having a dedicated "it is closing on X!"-titled message has 10x more impact in my mind than "Oh, the CfP is still open."
18:29:04 <azeem> lamby: ack
18:29:08 * h01ger nods lamby
18:29:28 <azeem> we could also start assembling the schedule shortly before the 30th and then only incrementally fix it up afterwards
18:29:43 <petn-randall> azeem: May 1 is holiday in .de, we could do it in the evening. Or evening of May 2. I'd like to have marga on board, too, though.
18:30:06 <h01ger> may 4th/5th is exactly a fortnight before the minidc
18:30:22 <petn-randall> azeem: We can, sure. I can imagine there being an influx of proposal just before the deadline, though.
18:30:25 <h01ger> (so a good date to publish it...)
18:30:38 <h01ger> (if possible :)
18:30:43 <azeem> ok, let's see; I probably have some time over the long weekend though, so wouldn't mind to start early
18:30:50 <azeem> petn-randall: yah
18:30:52 <petn-randall> Sounds good.
18:31:06 <azeem> also, maybe we should start tracking the proposals centrally?
18:31:19 <azeem> wiki might be a bit too public, dunno, so a etherpad or so?
18:31:20 * h01ger thinks it would be good if the cfp reminder included a firm note saying the cfp will end on april 30th, for the benefit of being able to release the schedule in advance
18:31:31 <azeem> right
18:31:31 <petn-randall> I haven't heard any response from marga since the last IRC meeting, so I hope she's still on board.
18:31:53 <petn-randall> Sure, I can prep a nextcloud document to share.
18:32:05 <azeem> cool
18:32:43 <h01ger> next topic?
18:32:47 <petn-randall> We have a single track due to the rooms, right?
18:32:57 <h01ger> yes
18:33:00 <petn-randall> ^ my last Q on this topic
18:33:05 <petn-randall> ok
18:33:11 <azeem> well, last thing:
18:33:13 <h01ger> we could do another track in the ccchh room
18:33:26 <azeem> unless there's another meeting before the end of cfp, we should also start thinking about slots
18:33:29 <h01ger> but that has only capacity for 30-40 people
18:33:36 <h01ger> though 60 if you squeeze
18:33:36 <azeem> i.e. when do we start, when is lunch etc.
18:33:45 <petn-randall> Indeed
18:33:54 <h01ger> azeem: it depends on us but we should decide now
18:34:14 <h01ger> start at 10, lunchbreak from 13-15, dinner at 1930?
18:34:15 <azeem> h01ger: one option would be to have a self-scheduled unconference in the second room
18:34:26 <petn-randall> I wouldn't start before 9 am. Personally, make the first slot 10 am. Then again not everyone is a night owl.
18:34:51 <h01ger> azeem: i personally dont like these unconferences. i always miss them..
18:34:52 <petn-randall> h01ger++
18:35:00 <h01ger> petn-randall: to what?
18:35:04 <petn-randall> schedule
18:35:28 <petn-randall> Make lunch 90 mins, though.
18:35:34 <h01ger> azeem: also the ccchh room might also be used others (read ccchh members) for hacking, to use the laser or 3d printer, etc
18:35:34 <petn-randall> It's on premise anyway, right?
18:35:39 <azeem> we don't necessarily need 1 hour slots as there's not a lot of moving between rooms
18:35:52 <h01ger> azeem: so i would think it would be easier with a regular schedule..
18:35:55 <azeem> I guess the talks will be 45 +/- 5 minutes?
18:36:04 <h01ger> and video for that 2nd room is also something to consider
18:36:10 <azeem> ok
18:36:12 <h01ger> are there that many good talk submissions?
18:36:13 <petn-randall> either 20 or 45 minutes long.
18:36:36 <petn-randall> ~10 by now?
18:36:45 <azeem> h01ger: if it's an unconference, it wouldn't be from the submission pool
18:36:48 * h01ger likes 20 & 45mn slots. (and then 10 or 15min breaks after)
18:37:02 <azeem> anyway, I think we have consensus to only have a single track on schedule?
18:37:12 <h01ger> azeem: sure. but are there enough submissions for a 2nd room? then we could consider making it a regular 2nd room, with video, etc
18:37:19 <azeem> not yet
18:37:20 <h01ger> the venue has space, after all
18:37:25 <azeem> I thinkk
18:37:29 <h01ger> azeem: so far yes
18:37:53 <h01ger> so lets drop the 2nd room idea for now, and *if* there are "too" many good submissions, we will reavluate?
18:37:57 <azeem> maybe we should hash out the slot details after the meeting
18:38:03 <azeem> yeah, sounds good
18:38:17 <h01ger> #agreed lets drop the 2nd room idea for now, and *if* there are "too" many good submissions, we will reavluate
18:38:33 <petn-randall> ack
18:38:45 <h01ger> ack on the slots, but the overall dayplanning seems useful to me now
18:38:51 <h01ger> start at 10, lunchbreak from 13-15, dinner at 1930 ?
18:38:59 <h01ger> petn-randall said only 90min lunchslot
18:39:01 <azeem> 20:34 < petn-randall> Make lunch 90 mins, though.
18:39:09 <azeem> it depends a bit on logitstics
18:39:34 <azeem> can all attendees get and eat food in 90 minutes?
18:39:39 <h01ger> the cantina said they were flexible and once we've now decided i will mail them our wishes and see if they can deliver ;)
18:40:21 <azeem> ok
18:40:35 <h01ger> should be possible (the room fits 60 people or so, to eat... though there will be 30 other guests too)
18:40:43 <petn-randall> If it's all on premise, 30 mins to eat is fine, the rest is either chilling or waiting in line.
18:40:49 <h01ger> so i'd say 2h is better
18:41:02 <petn-randall> ok, fine by me.
18:41:04 <azeem> I think you're in the best position to judge this so let's go with that
18:41:10 <petn-randall> agreed
18:41:13 <h01ger> start at 10, lunchbreak from 13-14.30, dinner at 1900 ?
18:41:25 <azeem> h01ger: 20:39 < h01ger> so i'd say 2h is better
18:41:36 <h01ger> or what would be the alternative suggestion? i surely can ask the cantina about both options and take their advice
18:41:42 <petn-randall> start at 10, lunch 13-15, dinner 19:30
18:41:50 <petn-randall> sounds reasonable to me.
18:41:55 <azeem> the last talk would end at 19:00 then?
18:42:03 <azeem> I guess it makes sense to have full hour slots
18:42:19 <petn-randall> depending on how we squeeze them in, 19:00 + discussion would be fine for me.
18:42:48 <petn-randall> so 1h slots for the 45min talks, and 30 min slots for the 20min talks?
18:42:50 <azeem> or we have 45 minute slots
18:43:16 <azeem> but that is tight; OTOH nobody needs to change rooms
18:43:21 <petn-randall> "Regular sessions may either be 20 or 45 minutes long (including time for
18:43:24 <petn-randall> questions), other kinds of sessions (like workshops) could have different
18:43:27 <petn-randall> durations."
18:43:36 <h01ger> #agreed "start at 10, lunch 13-15, dinner 19:30" is what h01ger will ask the cantina if thats possible/desirable
18:43:43 <azeem> right, so it depends on whether we want breasks
18:43:52 <azeem> ok
18:43:53 <petn-randall> So according to the cfp, we have 20/45 min slots, I think the speakers will expect this kind of schedule.
18:43:54 <azeem> let's move on
18:44:24 <h01ger> #agreed slot details still need to be sorted out, cfp said 20/45min slots
18:44:31 <h01ger> #topic budget / sponsors
18:44:46 <h01ger> so far we only have one sponsor, and one corporate attendee
18:44:56 <petn-randall> 15 mins extra is enough for the next speaker to set their stuff up, and also allows for slight overschedule.
18:44:59 <olasd> breaks are good, if only to allow the video team to desequip / equip speakers
18:45:07 <azeem> ok
18:45:09 <h01ger> can we move one?
18:45:13 <petn-randall> ok
18:45:13 <h01ger> -e
18:45:21 <olasd> sure
18:45:22 <h01ger> breaks are good for everyone
18:45:27 <h01ger> budget
18:45:34 <h01ger> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/de/2018/MiniDebConfHamburg/Budget
18:45:41 <h01ger> has all the numbers but is not yet a budget
18:45:58 <h01ger> #info help welcome to turn https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEvents/de/2018/MiniDebConfHamburg/Budget into a budget. the numbers are all there
18:46:06 <h01ger> so far we only have one sponsor, and one corporate attendee
18:46:12 <azeem> we should have totals on that
18:46:21 <azeem> roughly 2.5k?
18:46:31 <h01ger> and debian is covering video team expenses and some other stuff (travel) outside the budget
18:46:41 <lamby> :)
18:46:52 <h01ger> azeem: less
18:47:03 <h01ger> most attendees will pay their beds, we only pay 3
18:47:11 <h01ger> but we need to make sure the beds are used
18:47:25 <h01ger> else dock europe will be unhappy / in worst case will ask us to pay for them
18:47:31 <h01ger> nattie: ^^
18:47:35 <azeem> what I got as feedback from companies is that the sponsor levels were quite steep and they would rather get some way to present them on-premise for the higher ones
18:48:21 <h01ger> azeem: shall we discuss this in detail after the meeting, without public logging? ;)
18:48:30 <azeem> ok
18:48:54 <h01ger> more sponsoring would be nice to be able to print tshirts, and provide food.. and/or travel.
18:49:04 <h01ger> #topic video
18:49:21 <azeem> the point is that the sponsors only get on the video, which might be cool for some
18:49:39 <azeem> but not others
18:49:41 <h01ger> afaik video team is prepared for one room, mics need to be brought/fetched from berlin. olasd might need more and is the better person to talk to
18:49:52 <h01ger> azeem: ah
18:50:56 <h01ger> olasd: a comment from you on the feasability of recording a 2nd room would be nice, though not urgent :)
18:52:13 <h01ger> #info a comment from the video team on the feasability of recording a 2nd room would be nice
18:52:20 <h01ger> #topic visas
18:52:29 <h01ger> petn-randall: ^
18:53:05 <petn-randall> Since I ended up responding to all those people with talk proposals, I kinda ended up also taking care of visa applications.
18:53:30 <h01ger> :) thanks for doing that!
18:53:59 <petn-randall> I've got two visa invitation letters from previous debconfs that I can use as template, however it would be great to have a conference logo, and maybe even a official looking stamp (bonus ;)
18:54:23 <petn-randall> I'd like to send out those letters this weekend, since my weekday schedule is rather tight.
18:54:25 * h01ger just send a mail to valessio asking about a logo...
18:54:39 <h01ger> else, i'd say use the debian logo
18:54:46 <petn-randall> valessio? Can you PM me their mail address?
18:54:57 <azeem> petn-randall: do you want the LaTeX source of the previous letter templates?
18:55:10 <petn-randall> azeem: Would also work for me, yeah.
18:55:16 <h01ger> petn-randall: .
18:55:19 <azeem> I'll try to dig it up
18:55:34 <petn-randall> thanks a bunch, azeem.
18:55:56 <h01ger> anything else about visa?
18:55:59 <h01ger> +s
18:56:00 <petn-randall> Also does anyone know if mentioning the invitee is giving a talk is a good or bad idea?
18:56:12 <h01ger> should be fine, .de is not canada
18:56:34 <petn-randall> I'd say it increases the chances, but then there might be delay if they ask if compensation of some kind is involved.
18:56:37 <h01ger> its common to come to conferences in .de and give talks on tourist visas
18:56:54 <petn-randall> ok, I'll mention it then.
18:57:15 <azeem> petn-randall: you can just mention it in the letter "you were selected to give a talk, however, there will be no compensation for this" or so
18:57:26 <petn-randall> ack
18:57:31 <h01ger> what azeem said sounds good to me
18:57:33 <lamby> Let me know if leader@debian.org name or signature helps visa applications "sound better".
18:58:00 <h01ger> anything else about visa?
18:58:07 <petn-randall> AFAIR that's al.
18:58:13 <petn-randall> s/al/all/
18:58:24 <h01ger> #next meeting date
18:58:41 <h01ger> next week, wednesday at 2000 CEST? friday 2000 CEST? another time?
18:58:45 <h01ger> day..
18:58:58 <h01ger> or dudle til sunday?
18:59:13 <h01ger> but then someone else than me needs to set it up.. (etoobusy, sorry)
18:59:17 <petn-randall> both times work for me
18:59:26 <olasd> video team has a meeting next wednesday at 2100 CEST
18:59:30 <olasd> fwiw
18:59:36 <azeem> it's 21 now
18:59:56 <azeem> good motivation to keep it concise again
19:00:02 <petn-randall> hehe :)
19:00:02 <h01ger> azeem: would next wednesday 2000 work for you?
19:00:22 <azeem> probably
19:00:32 <h01ger> olasd: could you bring gear for a 2nd room? /me looks innocently like he never had heard a similar question...
19:01:11 <h01ger> oh, well, i guess i could also set up a quick doodle, between next wed/thu/fri, 18, 19 and 20 CEST
19:01:16 <petn-randall> olasd: If you need help bring it from berlin to HH, I could help. If you let me know early enough.
19:01:22 <h01ger> or do we agree on wednesday, 2000 CEST?
19:01:23 <olasd> we'd need a computer to mount capture cards in, a pair of tripods, and someone to make new SDI cables
19:01:29 <olasd> also audio gear
19:01:41 <olasd> and already trained volunteers
19:01:54 <h01ger> sounds like more VOC stuff could help, but volunteers is indeed an issue
19:01:57 <azeem> next thursday would be better for me
19:02:17 <olasd> it's doable, but it turns a leisurely minidebconf into a rushed almost-debconf
19:02:20 <azeem> but I'll try to make Wednesday as well
19:02:21 <h01ger> #info a 2nd room would need a computer to mount capture cards in, a pair of tripods, and someone to make new SDI cables, also audio gear and trained volunteers
19:02:31 <h01ger> olasd: ack, i hear you
19:02:42 <h01ger> #info it's doable, but it turns a leisurely minidebconf into a rushed almost-debconf
19:02:57 <h01ger> petn-randall: does thursday 2000 CEST work for you?
19:03:12 <h01ger> it seems there's no need/advantage to entangle this with the video meeting
19:03:37 <petn-randall> h01ger: yes
19:03:43 <olasd> having your meeting after the video meeting could also yield a more firm answer wrt the two rooms question
19:03:45 <petn-randall> (date works for me)
19:03:50 <h01ger> #topic next meeting
19:04:11 <h01ger> #agreed next meeting, thursday, april 26th, 2000 CEST/18 UTC
19:04:33 <h01ger> #topic any other business
19:04:45 <h01ger> any other business which cannot be discussed after the meeting ;)
19:04:52 <h01ger> the slots question is still open
19:05:05 <h01ger> and how many free beds there still are
19:05:36 <petn-randall> h01ger: nattie should know about the beds, she did the inbox on that.
19:05:52 <h01ger> oh, and i skipped the logo topic. but i just mailed valessio to ask for an update
19:06:01 <petn-randall> ok
19:06:02 <h01ger> petn-randall: i know :)
19:06:20 <h01ger> okidoki, i guess
19:06:26 <h01ger> thank you!
19:06:32 <h01ger> #endmeeting