19:02:23 #startmeeting Global team meeting 19:02:23 Meeting started Sat Jul 10 19:02:23 2010 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:02:23 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:02:45 thanks moray! 19:02:50 #topic Reports: 1. Finances / current budget situation 19:02:52 indeed. :) 19:03:00 oh, should we ping everyone again? 19:03:07 <_hc> ping 19:03:16 pong 19:03:25 #pingall this is a meeting 19:03:28 MeetBot: pingall meeting in progress 19:03:28 meeting in progress 19:03:28 _hc adsb alphascorpii ana AndrewLee ArthurLiu aurel32 azeem_ bdale bgupta biella blarson bremner bubulle cate ceros Clint CosmicRay cpt_nemo dkg DrDub edrz FBI fil franklin Ganneff gregoa Hydroxide Jon karora madduck Manoj marga Maulkin MeetBot micah moray 19:03:28 MrBeige MrBeige|sarcasm mshuler note paravoid paulproteus rmayorga RonG sapphire schultmc schultmc_ sgran Sledge svenk tiagovaz Tincho tokkee Tolimar TransBot valajbeg vanja whe zack zumbi 19:03:28 meeting in progress 19:03:40 so, who can report on finances? 19:03:43 yes 19:03:48 I mean, hi 19:03:49 I think ana can best 19:03:52 indeed 19:04:17 ana: here? 19:04:22 so, now we are sponsoring 80 % queue A and 70 % queue B 19:04:30 we included fully sponsored daytrip 19:04:48 and we have pretty accurate accom costs and incoming from attendee fees 19:05:03 (note to others: possibly increasing sponsorship is a later meeting point) 19:05:22 which puts us in 11000USD "buffer" money 19:05:43 do you have raised / surplus / spending numbers? 19:05:57 moray: uhm? 19:06:09 I think a budget for attendee bags is currently missing in there 19:06:20 ana: incoming sponsorship + other money - spending = 11000 19:06:29 ana: I'm wondering if you can paste in the other numbers 19:06:54 #info 80%A / 70%B queues travel sponsorship levels 19:07:02 i would prefer you open the spreadheet and ask what you do not understand, they are too many numbers there 19:07:04 #info 11000 USD surplus so far 19:07:11 the spreadsheet is at: 19:07:14 ana: I'm asking specifically so it's in the meeting minutes 19:07:31 svn co svn+ssh://ana@svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/dc10/budget.ods 19:07:58 #info 90000 sponsorship pludged or likely, 75000 surplus from last year, 7000 other sources 19:08:00 s/ana/your_own_alioth_account/ 19:08:06 okay, we pretty much have the numbers, now, what do we want to do with them, since everybody seems quiet on the matter 19:08:23 #info fixed budget (non-attendee) is 52000 right now 19:08:32 #info the current figures do not include $500-$1000 extra expenses in attendee bags, to be discussed later this meeting 19:08:37 that also includes 1000USD for video team costs 19:08:44 and MrBeige said the remaining numbers 19:08:53 sapphire: increased spending comes under other points 19:09:04 is there anything missing from calculations of current spending, or can we move on? 19:09:05 i think we're also missing electricity costs and we may be double-counting a $650 income 19:09:30 #info there are unknown additional electricity costs still to come 19:09:43 Clint: so you suggest to add electricity costs. how much? 19:09:50 #info 41000 in attendee fees (accom/corp/prof only) 19:09:56 i have no idea until MrBeige gets info from columbia 19:09:59 ana: we dont know the numbers yet, so it is hard to estimate, they are coming 19:10:07 ana: let's say 1000, I am unsure now 19:10:12 yeah, like most of the numbers from columbua 19:10:29 regardless, we can summarize by "about 10000 surplus" for now 19:10:30 we got 2 cancelations 5 min that are pretty much those 1000 USD 19:10:38 is someone working on resolving this double-counting $650 issue? 19:10:48 so you can keep thincking in a 11000USD surplus when we talk about spend money later 19:11:02 what is that double counting 650 issue? 19:11:03 note: apparently "electricity costs" = temporary power upgrade (while we all plug in our computers) 19:11:10 let's work on the double-counted 650 later 19:11:12 they charge me $0.17 a kWh here in WP 19:11:24 is there anything else before we move on ? 19:11:26 #info MrBeige / Clint to check about possible double-counting later 19:11:28 ah, I see. Good. 19:11:53 moray: that should be #action, no? 19:12:04 debconf-data: 3 ana committed revision 1514 to debconf-data: add 1000 USD estimate of electricity costs 19:12:04 debconf-data: files changed: U dc10/budget.ods 19:12:11 micah: presumably 19:12:27 I think we're done on the finance status? 19:12:32 yup 19:12:33 #topic 2. Accommodation report 19:12:38 #action MrBeige / Clint to check about possible double-counting later 19:12:40 Clint: no, we do not have that problem 19:13:00 is this MrBeige ? 19:13:07 or marga if she was around 19:13:14 Well, I can report on my part 19:13:22 ana: ok? 19:13:33 I'm almost done with room assignments, but we are waiting for Columbia to answer a few of our questions. 19:13:51 we shouldn't have any accommodations problems 19:14:16 I think you've been updating the list on this anyway 19:14:21 There are 2 wheel chair users, and Columbia is giving us 2 special rooms for them 19:14:32 good 19:14:45 The deadline was yesterday, but it was extended because we are waiting on their answers. 19:14:58 So, we will probably submit the draft early next week. 19:15:16 deadline for them to know room allocations? 19:15:21 (or something else) 19:15:21 yes 19:15:46 I think we're done here 19:15:56 yup 19:15:57 if anyone has problems mail registration@ 19:16:16 #info waiting on columbia for info, room allocations are going well. draft will be submitted next week 19:16:23 #topic 3. Report on talks/JJ/security schedules 19:16:59 talks: 19:17:08 done, scheduled 19:17:17 schedule is being adjusted via list discussions to fit our eating schedule 19:17:23 I don't think there are any major concerns 19:17:34 JJ: john jay cafeteria 19:17:53 we are going to use the cafeteria for food during DebConf. any objections/concerns there? 19:18:08 this is Monday-Friday of DebConf week 19:18:17 #info talks schedule is mostly done, adjustments are being made for eating 19:18:24 bgupta is working with them to ensure we can pay per meal eaten, it is a bit hard to do but we will manage - we think 19:18:25 MrBeige: does that imply 'and not during debcamp now'? or that's still being worked out? 19:18:34 MrBeige, no objections about food and I have one question about schedule 19:18:42 biella: wait a bit on the schelude qusetion 19:18:48 ok MrBeige 19:18:59 for debcamp, we could, or we could do something else 19:19:15 maybe a discussion item for later in the agenda? 19:19:16 JJ is simplest since we have to do it anyway 19:19:27 MrBeige: If it's not on the agenda, I will need guidance one way or another if JJ will be used for DebCamp, as the arrangements will certainly be different. 19:19:29 yes, we have a ton of food discussions to do 19:19:48 want to postpone the rest of food discussion for a later agenda item ? 19:19:58 micah: well, not urgent to decide today seemingly, maybe we can just continue on-list? 19:20:03 biella: what's your question ? 19:20:08 moray: sure, I'll add it to AOB now 19:20:11 moray: the food stuff _is_ kind of urgent I think 19:20:16 but yes, not that point, I was just trying to find out what the status is 19:20:21 s/that/this/ 19:20:22 dkg had asked the list as to whether we could move Eben Moglen's talk earlier 19:20:23 #agreed JJ will be used for food during Debconf 19:20:28 MrBeige: ok 19:20:47 security schedules: we have a draft, I am going to trim some unneeded weekend hours in the talk buildings 19:20:49 i feel strongly that we should do this and yet there was very little response so i wanted to just get people's opinion here to get everyone involved 19:21:02 anyone object to moving Eben's talk? 19:21:13 no objection to move eben's talk 19:21:15 no 19:21:18 whatever dkg is OK with 19:21:28 biella: I think you just lost due to the Debian culture being against "I agree" messages 19:21:29 and my strong support to scheduler to move talks in the future without checking with all the team 19:21:32 he is ok so long as others are ok MrBeige (if i am reflecting him correctly) 19:21:37 Sounded like a very good plan, since he's keen to spend the time afterwards talking to us all 19:21:42 ok sounds good folks 19:21:48 * micah agrees with ana 19:21:55 ok, security again: 19:21:58 #agreed eben's talk should be moved earlier 19:22:16 #agreed moving ebens talk earlier in the week 19:22:18 is open until 03:00 during debconf and 23:00 during debcamp ok ? 19:22:30 * micah shakes fist at clint 19:22:31 this is for the hacklab 19:22:34 do we agree in scheduler moving talks as he (they) think is better? 19:22:36 for the hacklab, yes 19:22:46 MrBeige: sounds good 19:22:49 ana: yes, though we discourage this *during debconf itself* I think 19:23:08 * micah agrees with mr.beige and ana 19:23:22 moray: that is another stuff, but i can narrow my proposal to pre-debconf 19:23:40 #agreed scheduler should adjust schedule as ey sees fit unless it's expected to be controversial 19:23:47 comments on closing at 3 during debconf? 19:23:56 I think that's the part that will controversial with some attendees 19:23:57 (and peolpe can continue to hack in the dorms) 19:24:11 MrBeige: if they're staying there / in the same one as each other 19:24:30 they can go between them if they are staying in either 19:24:33 how much would it cost us to have it 24hs? 19:24:40 i remember most of the people going to sleep about 1-2 19:24:45 3 am is really good imho. not 24 hrs but darn close 19:24:52 and people going later are not always hacking :-) 19:24:54 If people are able to decam to the dorms without waking everyone else up, that seems OK to me 19:24:59 partying, etc 19:25:02 decamp, even 19:25:02 forcing people to get some sleep is also healthy 19:25:03 maybe 2-3k more I think for the debconf period 19:25:03 ana: yes, I think 3 is realistically perfectly sensible, but you'll have to split up some mao games etc. 19:25:20 #info 24hr hacklab is ~2-3k more for debconf 19:25:21 moray: nah - they can just move to some non-private area 19:25:26 mao games can be played outside as well, very very nice campus for outside hanging 19:25:39 question: how much money is close at 4? 19:25:42 at 3am the temperature should be pleasant 19:25:49 micah: that seems a relatively small price to get actual 24 hour 19:25:50 especially in the fountain 19:25:50 ana: $250 more or so 19:25:51 or how much extra money is extend 1h 19:26:04 which has the last few years been a 'requirement' (though not coming from me) 19:26:13 i would go for extending 1h in debcamp 19:26:14 55.16*6? 19:26:15 #info ~$250 to extend to 4am 19:26:18 23 is early :) 19:26:35 ana: hack, then go out for dinner at 11? 19:26:42 #info correction ~$250 to extend one hour 19:27:12 I agree with the rest that 3 am is a good time. I don't think extending it would mean much extra hacking. 19:27:29 is this something we can vary during the event (i.e. if everyone's mad for it at 23h mid-debcamp, can we hand security some cash to hang around? 19:27:32 But yes, for DebCamp, 00 would be nice. 19:27:42 fil: a couple days of notice would be required 19:27:57 ok, so we could extend later if money is looking good? 19:28:00 (but maybe we could do it with less notice) 19:28:09 one extra hour in debcamp is only 200 (4 nights) 19:28:10 or if many people complain in advance 19:28:36 #info changing hours flexibility is on the order of a couple of days 19:28:43 i think it is more important in debcamp than debconf as well. 3 AM is good and people who are up can hit the all night diners in the area 19:28:44 ana: i thought it was $250 for each additional hour? 19:28:53 23 does seem pretty early 19:28:53 it's $55.16*number of days 19:29:04 micah: it's different number of nights per week that would be extended 19:29:10 again, some people (small number) *will* want to hack through the night 19:29:19 tehy can go to their dorm lounges 19:29:22 moray: it is 50-55 per hour, 4 working days = 200 19:29:30 micah: ^ 19:29:39 thank you 19:29:45 I move we go on, we seem to not be getting much out of this 19:29:46 do we know what timezones people come from for debcamp? (if loads of .eu people, they'll be sleeping early for a day or two) 19:30:01 and local people can adjust 19:30:13 #info $55.16 per hour*number of days, so 4 working days = 220.64 19:30:20 MrBeige: I think there's a consensus that 23 is a bit early. 19:30:23 guise, let's move on 19:30:28 MrBeige: yes, I think 'seems ok, but keep this issue open slightly' is the conclusion 19:30:31 01:00 during debcamp ? 19:30:32 given that we can punt on this for a couple of weeks, i concur with deferring 19:30:33 * biella nods 19:30:43 But ok, let's deferr 19:30:46 #topic 4. Report on t-shirt/bags/etc. 19:30:48 i would rather later but we can discuss later as well 19:31:13 #action discuss potentially extending hacklab hours later 19:31:26 who's on swag? 19:31:35 DrDub is swag master 19:31:39 Hydroxide: is doing shirts 19:31:42 #info t-shirts are moving well - order is submitted to gaby, payment logistics are being worked out, logos are being coralled 19:31:42 yup 19:32:07 #info gaby knows the timeframe and will keep that in mind 19:32:20 Hydroxide: when do we really need the back logos by? 19:32:27 Hydroxide: let me know when you're done with t-shirts 19:32:49 Clint: I don't have a hard deadline, but I'm aiming for monday or tuesday. except for the LM logos and the permanent sponsors I think we have them 19:32:58 DrDub: done, unless more questions exist 19:33:09 I started looking into attendee bags yesterday 19:33:36 I couldn't get a quote from the sites I was looking at without sending them what we want to print 19:34:08 the cheapest price for tote bags I could find was around $1.12 blank. Printing most likely will raise that to $2 or $3 19:34:33 ok 19:34:37 what quantity do we need? 19:34:45 we need a number of bags and a total budget. Local-team will do the rest. Given the time frames I saw on-line, we should put the order on Tuesday, the latest. 19:34:54 DrDub: anything to discuss, or you can move this forward outside the meeting? 19:35:02 #info for quantity, the minimums are about 250 19:35:12 DrDub: It should be 350 19:35:14 one per attendee plus sponsor 19:35:21 great. 19:35:36 So expect between $700-$1000 extra on this 19:35:43 what kind of bags are? 19:35:49 #action DrDub to continue working on attendee bags 19:35:50 ana: the cheapest ones 19:35:56 I'm done. 19:36:00 DrDub: my question was more in the lind: useful ones? :) 19:36:01 ana: square cloth, probably 19:36:19 ana: we'll do that at local-team 19:36:24 #topic 5. Volunteer coordination 19:36:26 biella: ? 19:36:26 #info 250-300 bags, costing $2-$3. local-team will work on making these, will be between $700-$1000 19:36:46 so volunteer coordination 19:37:02 i am corralling folks but looking for another co-coordinator 19:37:11 although now that we dont have to deal with cleaning things are easier 19:37:29 i would also like some advice--although not now--as to what folks did in the past to get folks and organize them 19:37:42 most of this will be sorted out during debcamp, as things come up 19:37:48 bgupta, and i also are going to NYLUG next week, really the following 19:37:53 to try to recruit 19:37:54 but would be good to know the every year tasks 19:37:55 the 21st 19:38:32 debconf-data: 3 ana committed revision 1515 to debconf-data: add bags estimate ~1000USD 19:38:32 debconf-data: files changed: U dc10/budget.ods 19:38:35 talks, front desk/tee shirt sales are the main tasks, though please mention any others 19:38:39 I'm sorry that I have to ask this, but who are the volunteers that need coordinating? 19:38:50 bag stuffing 19:38:52 marga: we need to get them 19:39:05 Are they CU people? 19:39:06 bag stuffing i think we should do together 19:39:08 isn't it sort of "anyone who is around" ? 19:39:12 marga: does not have to be 19:39:13 no marga i am hoping they will be debian folks 19:39:16 people for frontdesk? 19:39:26 ok, useful to have the status update -- not sure we need to discuss more on this just now though? we have quite a few points left in the agenda 19:39:34 can we take this to the list? 19:39:37 #info DrDub is planning a attendee bag stuffing party as soon as we got all the swag together (and the bags) 19:39:49 unless someone else is stepping in to volunteer to control volunteers now 19:40:01 moray: biella is 19:40:04 yes indeed ana and yes we will discuss here later and on list and DrDub i think partay is good 19:40:05 really, most of this could/should be done at debcamp 19:40:08 micah: she asked for help I think 19:40:11 moray: it worries me, I had understood that there was a group of already appointed volunteers... 19:40:29 there is the field in penta where people could explicitly volunteer 19:40:31 micah: 21:37 < biella> i am corralling folks but looking for another co-coordinator 19:40:32 ok, can biella send her ideas to the list and we discuss it there? 19:40:45 #help biella would like a co-coordinator for volunteers 19:40:46 biella already did send something to the list 19:40:49 Indeed. 19:41:02 i did and will resend with more lolcats pleading for help (we can move on now :-)) 19:41:10 micah: yup, follow-up there 19:41:17 remember, everyone at debconf can be used for volunteers 19:41:25 #topic 6. (addition) Arrivals coordinator 19:41:33 we don't have to make people come just to do one task we tell them in advance 19:41:42 * moray notes again that there's lots to get through yet 19:41:43 i can do a quick report-back about this 19:41:58 um, this is basicalyl someeone to make the "travel information sheet" 19:42:08 this is actually broader, we need someone to take on the job of being the arrivals coordinator 19:42:27 and prepare everything for arrivals 19:42:30 we also need still someone to do food coordination 19:42:32 not sure what needs to be discussed here... 19:42:37 micah: makes sense for this to be a local person, so can we just note the need now and let you work it out? 19:42:46 * Hydroxide not sure why this is on today's meeting agenda, even if it needs to be worked on asap (which it does) 19:42:49 (you want someone who's around from the start of debcamp) 19:42:49 its not a discussion, just a general report-back 19:42:54 we need people to do these things 19:43:01 ok 19:43:10 great, noted. Can we move on? 19:43:15 #topic a. Travel sponsorship 19:43:24 nothing needed to be discussed, just hoping to inspire people! 19:43:27 so, first point here: proposal to fund 100% of queue A 19:43:34 MrBeige: that wort repeating -- all attendees have a habit of volunteering -- they generally just need to be told what to do, and it gets done 19:43:45 it is 3168 EUR 19:43:53 and we have 10000USD buffer money 19:44:00 who would like to speak against increasing queue A sponsorship? 19:44:18 do we want to increase queue A before giving queue C anything? 19:44:38 absolutely 19:44:46 (A before C, that is!) 19:44:49 queue C was already told No money for you 19:45:01 * Hydroxide ok increasing queue A to 100% 19:45:03 wasn't? 19:45:30 Sledge: even with the parentheses I'm not sure if you mean "absolutely we do want to do that" or "absolutely I agree with micah's question" 19:45:35 as part of herb, I don't think Queue C was never considered for funding 19:45:55 ana: correct - queue c was told no money for you 19:46:10 ok, so it seems not worth resurrecting queue C? 19:46:11 it seems everyone is in agreement A before C 19:46:17 moray: absolutely I think we do A before C 19:46:20 Sledge: great 19:46:37 so, back to the question, who is against increasing to 100% for queue A? 19:47:02 * moray waits a few seconds 19:47:11 no one 19:47:13 seems everyone is in support then, unless you were all abstaining? 19:47:22 i'll abstain 19:47:27 done 19:47:30 Clint: so do I, but: 19:47:39 #agreed increase queue A sponsorship to 100% 19:47:50 #topic b. Arrival weekend food 19:47:56 schultmc: you will send out the emails for that? 19:48:02 micah: yes 19:48:03 just reminded of something from looking at the spreadsheet: I see that one person is listed as using GSoC money to help with travel sponsorship 19:48:04 schultmc: thanks 19:48:10 #action schultmc will send out emails for A sponsorship 19:48:15 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/FoodArrivalWeekend 19:48:19 Sledge: a mentor or a student? 19:48:24 Clint: a mentor 19:48:31 MrBeige: you want a decision now? 19:48:38 MrBeige: s/want/need/ ? 19:48:48 dc9 gsoc money, right? 19:48:51 I'm keeping track of the money spent from mentor payments, so I'll update that list now 19:49:05 Clint: looks like, yes 19:49:12 moray: at least let's hear what global people like most, if two are equally good local peolpe can decide based on logistical ability 19:49:45 if we can decide now, though, that would be good 19:49:50 so, rough rankings of the options, with or without reasons? 19:49:50 * Hydroxide is not dead-set on Plan A despite having proposed it, and is also ok with plans AAA, B, and D. (not AA or C or E) 19:49:51 Clint: yes 19:49:52 clarification: are we talking about food during debcamp, is that the same as 'arrival weekend', or are we talking about debconf arrival weekend 19:50:04 Clint: actually, "money from GSoC 2009" rather than "money from DC9" 19:50:06 micah: debcamp weekday meals are subsequent item 19:50:07 but close enough 19:50:18 need food!! :) 19:50:27 local people will have a meeting tomorrow and can make decisions then 19:50:31 right 19:50:38 * DrDub throws a bone to sapphire 19:51:05 I think I'd go B/D (don't folow the difference), AA/AAA NOTA 19:51:08 do we have anywhere near enough cash outside SPI for AAA? (Sledge -- what's in Debian-UK for instance?) 19:51:09 * micah prefers B/D 19:51:27 what is the number of people we need to handle for this period? 19:51:44 http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/only-reconfirmed/food-by-date.txt food numbers 19:52:02 debconf arrival day: 93 sponsored peospe 19:52:09 debconf day 1: 106 sponsored peolpe 19:52:09 fil: Debian Uk has GBP 3,220 and change of DC money 19:52:10 i would go with D, I do not like the cash/card options. That said, i trust local people here to decide what they think is better 19:52:32 + about 30 corp people 19:52:51 (30 corp/prof we need to provide food for) 19:53:04 would B and D include non-sponsored people as well? 19:53:07 Hydroxide has a few thousand Euros cash from DC9, plus Hands has offered to give his donation in cash outside of SPI 19:53:10 so overall we need to give about 120 / 140 meals the first two days 19:53:12 fwiw, once I'm done with t-shirts (close now to being fully done) I might be willing to take on "make plan D happen" 19:53:33 so, it seems there's some agreement on preferences? 19:53:40 is that enough to move on for now? 19:53:55 i think we can agree on try B/D 19:54:02 ok 19:54:13 #agreed B/D preferred 19:54:14 #topic c. DebCamp weekday food 19:54:24 #info arrival weekend food for 93 people first day, 106 the second day + 30 corp people 19:54:29 IN my case my preference is for option D, but if for some reason that is logistically not feasible, I would prefer cash over debit cards for a number of reasons (Which I can go into if people are interested) 19:54:32 I think this is "as arrival weekend" versus "as debconf week" 19:54:43 #info overall we need to give about 120 / 140 meals the first two days 19:54:43 #info we can do John Jay cafeteria for debcamp M-F if we wanted 19:54:43 for the new topic 19:55:04 i like the JJ option for debcamp 19:55:07 can someone fill us in on the financial impact / reason for asking? 19:55:18 if things are equal then JJ seems the obvious answer 19:55:19 bgupta: BTW my (hands) cash is included in the 3,220 Sledge mentioned 19:55:20 what is B/D? 19:55:30 what does B/D mean? 19:55:31 #info We could also save money by doing bulk take-out orders / dining out using SPI debit cards and stuff 19:55:33 sapphire: see link above 19:55:34 sapphire: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/FoodArrivalWeekend 19:55:35 sapphire: plana from http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/FoodArrivalWeekend 19:55:40 fil ahh thanks 19:55:47 tnx 19:56:02 at the moment the budget includes the canteen? 19:56:08 and the canteen are expecting us to go there currently? 19:56:17 they are not expecting anything 19:56:18 s/canteen/cafeteria (JJ) 19:56:23 right now the budget includes the cafeteria for debcamp 19:56:24 so we would have to break down the hack lab to eat if we did take out? 19:56:35 the budget assumes spend 30USD/person/day in 2 meals 19:56:41 it's more manageable to save money by not using JJ during debcamp though 19:56:42 (2x15USD) 19:56:44 biella: I think we could just go under the radar for debcamp food if we did take out 19:57:00 what is the approximated savings of doing builk take-out? 19:57:17 Clint: catering? 19:57:35 ok -- to reduce it again, are there people actively in favour of (not JJ) for DebCamp? 19:57:38 (I think we'd probably do take-out for lunch, and maybe go out and doing somewhere else for dinner in groups) 19:58:08 if we want to save money, i am in favor of not-JJ for debcamp 19:58:09 ana: catering would require more clean-up costs and time to deal with, I think 19:58:12 MrBeige: one advantage of 'Camp JJ is making the system work before DebConf 19:58:21 good point 19:58:24 MrBeige: and would SPI's bank debit cards (not the prepaid stuff) be used to pay for all of these debcamp takeout+dinner meals? 19:58:32 Clint: ok, can you answer micah's approximate expected saving point? 19:58:35 Hydroxide: they could be 19:58:37