20:01:03 <darst> #startmeeting
20:01:03 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Feb  8 20:01:03 2011 UTC.  The chair is darst. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:03 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:07 <darst> #chair moray
20:01:07 <MeetBot> Current chairs: darst moray
20:01:12 <moray> darst: I kind of assumed you'd add the other stuff you had in the mail to the agenda?
20:01:16 <darst> greetings
20:01:19 <moray> (but I see it's not there on the wiki still)
20:01:41 <darst> yeah, there were no real comments
20:01:54 <darst> I'll add it now
20:02:17 <darst> #info There is not much on the agenda today, and not much preparation has been done, so this may be fast
20:02:25 <moray> #topic Local team updates
20:02:39 <moray> do we have some locals here?
20:02:42 <vedran_omeragic> yup
20:02:43 <aroundthfur> yup
20:02:45 <AbsintheSyringe> yea
20:02:46 <zlatan> yup
20:02:52 <moray> great, so what's the news?
20:03:07 <aroundthfur> who'll go fisrt?
20:03:12 <vedran_omeragic> i'll go
20:03:23 <vedran_omeragic> well, we created map of BL since google's is lame
20:03:26 <vedran_omeragic> http://debconf11.debconf.org/map/index.xhtml
20:03:46 <vedran_omeragic> in short, we added most important and 'must' visit locations for attendees
20:04:06 <vedran_omeragic> of course, it's still not done, but should be 100% complete before debcamp even starts
20:04:18 <vedran_omeragic> we updated site with some new info
20:04:23 <darst> are there lists of facilities and capicities somewhere ?
20:04:24 <vedran_omeragic> like venue, accommodations
20:04:32 <vedran_omeragic> darst, will be added
20:04:35 <darst> I can think: - number of talk rooms, how often we can use them
20:04:56 <aroundthfur> AbsintheSyringe, ??
20:04:59 <darst> seating capicities, layouts, power/network setup
20:05:14 <aroundthfur> darst, we still don't have that info
20:05:25 <AbsintheSyringe> we'll know all of this after my meeting with the president this saturday
20:05:27 <moray> darst: last I heard it still wasn't 100% finalised what rooms were used
20:05:29 <aroundthfur> the BL ppl said they are going to have it ready soon
20:05:36 <aroundthfur> ~end of feb
20:05:49 <vedran_omeragic> ^
20:05:52 <darst> number of hotel beds available, dates can be used, other requirements
20:05:53 <darst> ok, good
20:06:04 <AbsintheSyringe> after sat.
20:06:07 <vedran_omeragic> well, as for the rest of the site
20:06:10 <vedran_omeragic> we added
20:06:11 <vedran_omeragic> http://debconf11.debconf.org/helpus.xhtml
20:06:20 <AbsintheSyringe> btw
20:06:27 <darst> right now I am dumping various thinsg the teams may want to know, so you can keep it in mind and wikify for future reference
20:06:32 <vedran_omeragic> small info for guests, attendees and volunteers to help out
20:06:37 <AbsintheSyringe> darst, moray is there a full list of all of this because I'm gonna need this with me
20:06:52 <AbsintheSyringe> I know most of them on top of my head but still ist would be nice
20:06:57 <vedran_omeragic> and we also added Documentation page
20:06:59 <vedran_omeragic> http://debconf11.debconf.org/documentation.xhtml
20:07:16 <vedran_omeragic> with record of all official documents, borchure, meeting records, etc...
20:07:25 <darst> i'm not sure if there are master lists of things to ask
20:07:45 <AbsintheSyringe> well I'm aiming for the venue we wer egoing for and hotels we were going for
20:07:47 <moray> darst: well, lots of it is the checklist questions
20:07:52 <AbsintheSyringe> if we get all that, then we have it ALL
20:08:01 <darst> yeah, as moray said, a lot of them are on location checklist
20:08:07 <AbsintheSyringe> because those locations have everything we needed, from connectivity to everything else
20:08:12 <moray> this info should really be collected, then approved in a meeting before you finalise what locations are used
20:08:13 <AbsintheSyringe> then yea
20:08:25 <AbsintheSyringe> if it goes as we planned we'll have it all
20:08:38 <AbsintheSyringe> again, I'll know this after sat. and I'll email the list
20:08:38 <moray> that is, in a global DebConf meeting or on the debconf-team list, not just a local discussion
20:08:45 <AbsintheSyringe> sure
20:08:58 <darst> remember "don't worry, it will have everything we need" is not sufficient, make descriptions of what there is and wikify it / mail it to lists, and be available to answer questions from the teams
20:09:12 <moray> I know we're getting the stuff sponsored, but it's still the same process as if we were paying --> we need to have a sanity check to make sure it works
20:09:29 <AbsintheSyringe> sure
20:10:08 <moray> obviously we want to get the locations finalised as soon as possible, but it's more important that they work than that we're quick
20:10:23 <darst> how is money going to work?  Can you make a list of things we will need to pay out of our own money?
20:10:41 <moray> -- including for (as in the checklist) accessibility, hours, power, networking, etc.
20:10:48 <AbsintheSyringe> yes
20:11:06 <AbsintheSyringe> that's why I'm meeting with him, to have it finalized, because we had it finalized and then other places were suggested
20:11:19 <darst> ok
20:11:19 <AbsintheSyringe> so I'm not coming back without things finalized
20:11:30 <AbsintheSyringe> and again
20:11:41 <AbsintheSyringe> I'm going to aim thing we were originally going for
20:11:45 <moray> well, you need to tell him "that sounds great, now I just need the global organising committee to approve it", not "it's finalised"
20:11:52 <AbsintheSyringe> because it has all we would need
20:12:17 <AbsintheSyringe> I know
20:12:38 <vedran_omeragic> and there he goes...
20:12:55 <aroundthfur> :D
20:13:19 <vedran_omeragic> moray, darst, as for the list of available info on locations, we are in process of making them, and should be ready by the end of feb or beginning of mart
20:13:24 <AbsintheSyringe> wow
20:13:26 <AbsintheSyringe> my xchat crashed
20:13:28 <AbsintheSyringe> either way
20:13:30 <AbsintheSyringe> that's why I'm meeting with him to set things straight
20:13:32 <AbsintheSyringe> becuase it was dc11 committee that got us into this mess
20:13:34 <AbsintheSyringe> because there was just a lot of people talking stuff they had no idea about
20:13:46 <AbsintheSyringe> that's why I'm meeting with the president to set it all straight
20:13:49 <moray> sure
20:13:54 <AbsintheSyringe> because I believe he's the one who can have it set straight
20:13:59 <AbsintheSyringe> if he can't no one can't
20:13:59 <moray> and obviously the president himself won't know about power sockets etc. :)
20:14:00 <AbsintheSyringe> and as you remember
20:14:08 <AbsintheSyringe> we GOT all those locations
20:14:14 <AbsintheSyringe> we have it on paper, so ...
20:14:17 <moray> yes
20:14:24 <AbsintheSyringe> it'll be good I think
20:14:26 <AbsintheSyringe> we'll see
20:14:31 <moray> hope so!
20:14:34 <moray> any more local news?
20:14:37 <vedran_omeragic> moray, yes, that's why we have BL liasons who took upon themselves to check it out
20:14:39 <AbsintheSyringe> um
20:14:40 <AbsintheSyringe> yea
20:14:42 <vedran_omeragic> zlatan, being one of them
20:14:43 <AbsintheSyringe> about local team
20:14:44 <AbsintheSyringe> a lot of
20:14:48 <AbsintheSyringe> people offered their help
20:14:50 <AbsintheSyringe> from orga team
20:14:53 <AbsintheSyringe> and they didn't help
20:14:56 <AbsintheSyringe> we couldn't even reach them
20:15:03 <AbsintheSyringe> and a lot of memers
20:15:10 <AbsintheSyringe> were asking how to communicate between themselves
20:15:38 <moray> is this "offers of help" at the last meeting?
20:15:56 <vedran_omeragic> yes
20:16:02 <moray> each sub-team needs to work out whether they want to operate by email/IRC/phone/whatever
20:16:02 <zlatan> at the end of weekend will all be done by us from BL what we can
20:16:13 <AbsintheSyringe> I mean
20:16:14 <moray> you can't have been trying that hard to contact them as I didn't see anything on IRC or the lists about it :)
20:16:15 <AbsintheSyringe> crucial thing
20:16:20 <AbsintheSyringe> the site header and brochure
20:16:27 <AbsintheSyringe> we're back on the guy I thought was out of the team
20:16:34 <AbsintheSyringe> so yea we would need help with that again
20:16:44 <AbsintheSyringe> should we beep them or ...?
20:17:00 <aroundthfur> AbsintheSyringe, i'm on that
20:17:13 <aroundthfur> i mean the header thingy
20:17:30 <moray> for practical things, get on with the work and CC the other team members by email, or CC the list if it's important enough, or tell them stuff on an IRC channel
20:17:32 <AbsintheSyringe> you gotta hurry up with that thing srsly
20:17:46 <vedran_omeragic> aroundthfur, I have pics archived and ready, just need the mail of that guy
20:17:47 <aroundthfur> AbsintheSyringe, i know, i had a bad few days myself..
20:17:54 <aroundthfur> it'll be taken care of
20:17:59 <darst> a lot of these teams haven't started working yet, too
20:18:10 <AbsintheSyringe> yes
20:18:13 <AbsintheSyringe> well
20:18:16 <AbsintheSyringe> this is what we'll do
20:18:25 <AbsintheSyringe> the meeting with the president is the most important thing right now
20:18:33 <AbsintheSyringe> after that it'll all be easier either way
20:18:40 <AbsintheSyringe> we'll know what we're on
20:18:48 <moray> yes -- getting the venue and accommodation firmly arranged is *major*
20:18:57 <AbsintheSyringe> and we'll keep working on website and brochure and that's what we'll be doing till end of this week
20:19:05 <AbsintheSyringe> moray, couldn't agree more
20:19:10 <moray> the DC10 report is still blocking things too
20:19:29 <AbsintheSyringe> we'll have it after this meeting for 100%, I'm srsly not coming back until I took care of all of it
20:19:46 <AbsintheSyringe> well yea
20:19:52 <AbsintheSyringe> this thing is blocking us too kinda
20:20:17 <moray> that's blocking 'local' progress (and maybe discouraging other DC11 work), the report blocks sponsor-acquisition
20:20:30 <AbsintheSyringe> :-/
20:20:31 <moray> very quickly DC11 will become scarily close
20:20:33 <AbsintheSyringe> well
20:20:38 <AbsintheSyringe> I offered my help with dc10 report
20:20:49 <AbsintheSyringe> let's do that after
20:20:59 <AbsintheSyringe> we're done with accomodation and venue
20:21:01 <moray> AbsintheSyringe: sure, and it's not really something you can get every DC11 person to work hard on, given the language issues
20:21:31 <zlatan> and there he goes again :)
20:21:57 <aroundthfur> i guess wheezy is to unstable :D
20:22:08 <AbsintheSyringe> xchax crashed again :-o
20:22:09 <AbsintheSyringe> moray, I was on dc10 orga team so I'm expected to help with the paper as well and I'm 100% willing to do that :)
20:22:12 <AbsintheSyringe> especially since dc11 is depending on it too
20:22:13 <moray> any more local news, or next topic?
20:22:20 <AbsintheSyringe> aroundthfur, I'm always on unstable :)
20:22:26 <AbsintheSyringe> moray, nah, that's it pretty much
20:22:39 <moray> #topic DC11 venue selection progress discussion
20:22:51 <moray> anyone want to mention things in respect of this?
20:23:00 <moray> we ought to arrange a meeting date with the bids before long now
20:23:01 * darst has nothing
20:23:08 <darst> seems like it's mostly been you on this (sort of)
20:23:22 <darst> yeah
20:24:05 <moray> on the process-level, it's still wide open for people to jump in on the list with better suggestions
20:24:34 <moray> otherwise (since there are few actual objections) presumably we'll end up trying something along the lines I wrote out and then debugging for the time after
20:24:45 <darst> yeah
20:25:26 <moray> #topic DebConf10 final report
20:25:26 <darst> seems like a "no objections means approval" thing so far...
20:25:37 <moray> we mentioned this already
20:25:52 <moray> darst: maybe you can flag it up on the list again though?
20:26:00 <darst> #info Most of the texts we need are there, we can go into proofreading and assembling now
20:26:09 <moray> it's possible some of the other international people from the last meeting could be pulled onto it?
20:26:10 <darst> I have two more texts I have started writing and will check in soon
20:26:22 <moray> if they're reminded how urgent (late?) it is
20:26:31 <darst> everything else not done can be ignored I think
20:26:36 <darst> moray: for writing?  proofreading?
20:26:40 <moray> both
20:26:53 <AbsintheSyringe> what do you need help with?
20:27:07 <moray> much of the writing doesn't even require that people attended DebConf, to be honest
20:27:20 <AbsintheSyringe> I'll write stuff, just about what?
20:27:25 <AbsintheSyringe> + I was on orga team
20:27:26 <darst> proofreading the texts, finding photos, assembling into something pretty, random little tasks
20:27:27 <moray> the minimum to get it ready is "write a variant on whatever we said last year" for each topic
20:27:39 <AbsintheSyringe> I could do that
20:27:44 <moray> darst: I guess you didn't have time to push on permissions for quoting blog entries?
20:28:01 <AbsintheSyringe> I got nice photos myself + I can make things pretty, at least I like to believe so :)
20:28:05 <moray> there's the file in svn with possible ones (but screwed up slightly by being pasted from Planet search)
20:28:18 <vedran_omeragic> AbsintheSyringe, do you have photos of last years Debian Day?
20:28:32 <darst> moray: correct, haven't gotten those permissions yet
20:28:39 <AbsintheSyringe> not sure, I just have a lot of photos of everything
20:28:55 <AbsintheSyringe> moray, where in svn?
20:29:06 <moray> darst: again, that's something a volunteer could do even without special knowledge or necessarily having attended
20:29:39 <darst> yeah
20:29:48 <moray> AbsintheSyringe: debconf-reports/dc10/notes-blogs
20:30:25 <darst> can someone look https://svn.debconf.org/svn/reports/dc10/notes-blogs, get permission to use those texts, format them nicer, pick excerpts, and commit them ?
20:30:33 <moray> we don't need permission for everything in that file, obviously
20:30:44 <darst> goal being something like this: https://svn.debconf.org/svn/reports/dc9/texts/personal-impressions-other.txt
20:30:44 <moray> but enough to fill up a page or two
20:31:23 <moray> as I mention, the versions in that file are slightly mangled, it would be better to re-paste from the original web pages (only realised this towards the end of the work)
20:31:31 <moray> there's even a draft permission-seeking mail in the file
20:31:40 <AbsintheSyringe> I could try ...
20:32:27 <moray> darst: is it a lost cause to hassle more of the actual DC10 people?
20:32:37 <darst> moray: I think so...
20:32:58 <moray> maybe we need some kind of deposit from organisers until they write the report...
20:33:29 <moray> currently it seems to be that alternate years write two reports each
20:34:16 <darst> yeah
20:35:27 <moray> AbsintheSyringe: if you have time the next few days?  but don't take it on if you *won't* have time
20:35:42 <darst> regardless... I have written eight articles so far, with one more to come
20:36:01 <moray> darst: I can try to do some more, especially about areas I know nothing about
20:36:07 <AbsintheSyringe> moray, I'm pretty good with time until the end of the week
20:36:15 <AbsintheSyringe> and I could take those posts
20:36:25 <moray> #info AbsintheSyringe to seek permissions for use of blog posts
20:36:26 <AbsintheSyringe> and make them nicer, include some pictures
20:36:41 <moray> #info AbsintheSyringe will also gather some photos for the report
20:36:43 <darst> #link http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/FinalReport
20:36:44 <AbsintheSyringe> should I make a pdf out of it or?
20:37:06 <moray> AbsintheSyringe: initially just put it all in svn separately
20:37:23 <moray> I think we previously had a volunteer to make the report from that, but maybe they got lost?
20:37:38 <AbsintheSyringe> no idea
20:37:41 <darst> DrDub said ey could assemble but I think may not be able to anymore...
20:37:49 <darst> marga may be able to assemble
20:38:02 <moray> anyway, we're unlikely to be ready for that before AbsintheSyringe has to worry about the meeting, I fear
20:38:21 <AbsintheSyringe> I agree
20:38:46 <moray> #topic Anonymous scoring for travel sponsorship ranking
20:39:00 <moray> as far as I can see there are two things here:
20:39:15 <moray> (a) should the people doing the ratings give their comments anonymously-to-each-other
20:39:26 <moray> (b) should the people being rated be anonymous
20:39:55 <AbsintheSyringe> a
20:40:00 <moray> the second one seems pretty impossible, as you'd need to make people write huge amounts about themselves to replace the 'I know who X is and that she is important to Debian' angle
20:40:22 * marga here
20:40:31 <marga> What do I have to assemble?
20:40:51 <darst> final report, but we didn't mean "have to", just that you have done several in the past
20:40:51 <moray> the first one I don't personally see big benefit in; there *could* be a problem if someone uses it to anonymously rank low those they don't like
20:41:12 <moray> #topic (Excursus on report)
20:41:32 <moray> marga: you did the report stuff well before, so we were hoping that you might be able to help on that again
20:41:50 <moray> as once again it's very late :(
20:41:57 <marga> Final Report?  If you mean, produce the scribus layout, I guess I can do it, yes.
20:42:03 <darst> (if DrDub can't)
20:42:06 <marga> Is all the text and data ready?
20:42:17 <moray> not ready yet, no, but it really has to be done soon
20:42:48 <marga> Ok. Well, yes, I've been so inactive lately that I feel very guilty.  So count me in with the scribus stuff.
20:43:07 <moray> great, thank you very much
20:43:13 <darst> great
20:43:30 <moray> #info marga to work on scribus layout for the report, unless DrDub can do it all first
20:43:46 <moray> #topic Anonymous scoring for travel sponsorship ranking II
20:44:00 <moray> so, is anonymity-from-other-rankers good or bad?
20:44:21 <moray> it would also be a hassle for email or IRC discussion, obviously
20:44:34 <marga> Now, about this other topic I interrupted, I think that in the past it was done through Penta's scoring system, similar to the talks thing, and it worked sort of fine.  The only issue is to first agree on what the different options will mean, so that everybody rates in the same way.
20:44:43 <darst> I wouldn't do it, I think, but really it's up to the team
20:44:57 <darst> (and once they see the system I imagine they won't want the anonymous system)
20:45:07 <moray> sure, I'm not hard against it, but I don't think we need to adopt it as a DebConf policy
20:46:01 <moray> for academic events anonymity everywhere is becoming the norm, but for DebConf even for talk submissions we previously decided anonymity was counterproductive
20:46:18 <darst> so we can recommend against it, but not force a decision?
20:46:37 <darst> (and encourage people that applying for sponsorship and rating people at the same time is fine)
20:46:49 <moray> definitely doing both is fine
20:47:13 <moray> you don't get to rank yourself, though
20:47:29 <marga> Right.
20:48:44 <moray> #topic Next meeting / Any other business
20:49:25 <darst> as for the next meeting, it seems we need to prod some teems to meet before meetings can be most effective
20:49:40 <darst> but that's our issue...
20:49:46 <moray> AbsintheSyringe has his real-life meeting, but it's probably best to present the results of that on the list
20:49:55 <moray> rather than in an immediate IRC meeting
20:50:05 <AbsintheSyringe> yea, I was thinking email too
20:50:34 <AbsintheSyringe> in two weeks? or that's too late
20:50:40 <AbsintheSyringe> if not then next week
20:50:53 <moray> next week might lead to meeting fatigue
20:51:20 <moray> if you post stuff to the list, it's better to give some time for reading and discussion
20:51:23 <moray> I'd say
20:51:46 <aroundthfur> 2 weeks then?
20:52:05 <AbsintheSyringe> then two weeks
20:52:06 <moray> sounds reasonable
20:52:10 <vedran_omeragic> i agree
20:52:19 <AbsintheSyringe> ok so 22nd?
20:52:43 <moray> #info next meeting Tuesday 22 February, 20 UTC
20:52:47 <moray> and anything else people want to mention today?
20:52:50 <moray> before we close
20:53:01 <darst> not much...
20:53:30 <AbsintheSyringe> that's it as it seems
20:53:42 <moray> good
20:53:49 <vedran_omeragic> noting regarding the meeting, but if anyone has pictures from Debian Day
20:54:01 <vedran_omeragic> i'd like to add them to the site
20:54:03 <vedran_omeragic> 2-3
20:54:46 <moray> right (I don't, but probably someone else watching does?)
20:55:21 <moray> #info vedran_omeragic is looking for Debian Day photos for the site
20:55:28 <moray> #endmeeting