18:59:44 #startmeeting DebConf11 global team meeting 18:59:44 Meeting started Tue Jun 7 18:59:44 2011 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:59:44 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:59:58 hello everybody 19:00:13 * h12ger waves 19:00:20 * gwolf ≈ 19:00:25 , 19:00:38 * blarson @ 19:01:00 hi 19:01:06 hi 19:01:09 we're now getting towards DebConf, apparently 19:01:11 is there a hi 19:01:16 o/ 19:01:19 hi 19:01:30 I suspect we should be starting to have meetings weekly about now, though preferably shorter ones ;) 19:01:30 hi 19:01:37 hi 19:01:37 eww 19:02:00 do we have any local team people yet? 19:02:07 me? 19:02:13 * h12ger nods on weekly 19:02:14 ok, one 19:02:19 jolly good 19:02:20 * gwolf sadly nods as well 19:02:27 jeje 19:02:27 #topic Status 19:02:37 i agree about the weekly meetings 19:02:43 We have 441 people marked 'attend' now 19:03:02 that is a lot! 19:03:05 no 19:03:10 aroundthfur: probably not all will actually come 19:03:11 aroundthfur: fear not. Many of them won't reconfirm 19:03:15 the interesting part will happen with reconfirm 19:03:16 315 wanting rooms 19:03:23 :D 19:03:24 darst: *that* is a lot 19:03:25 which is a different agenda point, but will kill lotsa people out 19:03:26 how about french beds? 19:03:30 nattie: hush 19:03:56 We need to get some insurance, but I don't know what people want to discuss about this in the meeting. 19:04:06 * h12ger nods 19:04:08 what is known about insurance so far? 19:04:13 insurance for attendees or equipment? 19:04:15 adnan said he was on it 19:04:16 (just to get everyone up to speed) 19:04:27 aroundthfur: preferably both 19:04:28 so someone should ping him 19:04:30 aah 19:04:35 h12ger, i did 19:04:46 what he say? 19:04:49 but he is afk as far as i can tell 19:04:56 nothing yet 19:05:00 i can ping him again 19:05:01 #info Adnan meant to be working on insurance 19:05:09 hi 19:05:10 #action aroundthfur will ping again, and report back on the mailing list 19:05:21 i think the company Dunav Osigurance (sp?) was mentioned 19:05:22 we need it in two-three weeks 19:05:29 speak of the devil 19:05:30 aah 19:05:32 here he come 19:05:35 comes 19:05:42 hi adnan :) 19:05:56 AbsintheSyringe, what is going on with the insurance? 19:06:01 * AbsintheSyringe waves 19:06:03 AbsintheSyringe: ~ 19:06:20 let me repeat the question, who is going to pay for this insurance? 19:06:33 debian/debconf 19:06:35 debconf 19:06:44 k 19:06:51 then we just need to get it 19:06:51 but we need a price first (or better, set of possible prices for different types of cover) 19:06:58 ok 19:07:05 and we need to be clear that it will actually help us 19:07:13 what are we meant to be covering? 19:07:14 i.e. you need to explain the complicated situation to the insurance sales person 19:07:21 ok, are we getting insurance only on equipment or on people as well? 19:07:23 do we cover people who break their arms while tidying up? 19:07:38 its more about hw 19:07:38 AbsintheSyringe: and it probably needs to be bought in the name of e.g. DIVA, not Debian, for legal reasons 19:07:49 yep 19:07:55 AbsintheSyringe: (in most countries, you can't buy insurance against things about a third party) 19:08:10 hw? 19:08:11 nattie: I'd prefer we do, but we need to know costs 19:08:12 oh right 19:08:15 nattie: hw = hardware 19:08:20 insurance for people? attendes? 19:08:20 sorry, braino there 19:08:21 * h12ger just wants+needs hw insurance 19:08:43 hi all -- sorry to pick up late here 19:08:44 people SHOULD cover themselve 19:08:49 i can+will provvide a list 19:08:55 Ganneff, yea they should 19:08:57 thats common sense if you travel to foreign countries 19:09:00 dkg: the magical ponies item is later on the agenda 19:09:06 * h12ger nods ganneff 19:09:15 Ganneff: right ... and then their insurance company will sue us to get the money back :) 19:09:18 right 19:09:22 though, if it is cheap (which i dont believe), im happy to have more 19:09:29 Yes, we cannot cover health for everybody 19:09:30 moray: i dont think so 19:09:37 I'll just talk to Dunav Osiguranje 19:09:40 even worse not knowing all the particularities of each person 19:09:40 gwolf: not 'health', but public liability 19:09:43 as afaik they are also going to be our sponsor 19:09:46 (my bet is that PEOPLE insurance would jump way out of our budget) 19:09:49 maybe note down in the next mails to the attendees about their health insurrance.... 19:09:53 so they might give us something cheaper or whtaever 19:10:02 moray: yes - public liability. But that's what we do to third parties, right? 19:10:03 i have to pay for an insurance in order to go to europe, it will cost me like 100EUR 19:10:12 gwolf: I don't suggest we pay for people's medicine, but the question is if they have an accident in the building while building our network or whatever, their insurance company will blame us 19:10:16 or yes, we need to remind people to get travel insurance 19:10:17 so i thinks that everyone will buy their own insurance if the need it or not? 19:10:36 moray: oh... I am not fluent with insurance companies... 19:10:36 or make sure they're somehow covered 19:10:37 yes 19:10:47 next? 19:11:08 we cover hardware and remind people to cover themselve, as is common sense. 19:11:10 AbsintheSyringe: please send prices for the hardware, and for further possible cover, to the list 19:11:11 so next 19:11:13 #info h01ger will give adnan a list of equipment 19:11:14 i don't think we should pay for every single persons insurance.. 19:11:19 it's just too much 19:11:20 aroundthfur: no one has suggested that 19:11:21 moray, okay 19:11:30 n0rman: if it's mandatory to enter in EU and you can't afford, includo to sponsor request 19:11:38 good idea, tiago 19:11:39 everyone traveling somewhere should buy insurance.. 19:11:44 it's common sense.. 19:11:46 tiago: no one is suggesting paying people's health/travel insurance :) 19:11:49 tiago: no, i dont sayuu that, i willu pay ufour iut 19:11:58 n0rman: s/u// 19:12:01 #topic Confirmation of attendance 19:12:04 some people have it as part of some other thing, for example my joint bank account includes travel insurance as a perk 19:12:07 yes, for schengen visa a insurance is mandantory. but thats not our thing. 19:12:14 nattie: please, travel insurance is completely irrelevant 19:12:25 reconfirm we should start soonish and have end a week or two before conf?! 19:12:32 * gwolf does not remember ever being asked for a travel insurance to enter Schengenland 19:12:33 ok so how are we going to do the reconf.. 19:12:40 gwolf: please, travel insurance is completely irrelevant... 19:12:43 gwolf: my keyboard is bad :S 19:12:45 (requires one click in pentabarf and a mail to d-d-a/dc-a) 19:13:02 Ganneff: yes, it should close 'as soon as we can', but it needs to be open enough time 19:13:09 we should make it VERY clear that people LOSE their sponsorship if they DO NOT reconfirm in time 19:13:17 and we need to require *dates* at the same time 19:13:22 yes 19:13:28 and to warn people a few days before the end if they haven't given dates 19:13:29 in past years I had a personalized reconfirmation mail check 19:13:32 and, again, make it very clear they lose sponsorship if they dont do it 19:13:40 that would detecd things like missing dates, etc 19:13:40 darst: if you have scripts still, that would be good 19:13:46 darst: even for the first stage 19:13:53 I have them, just need to adapt to DC11 19:13:59 i would suggest, we close reconfirmation at least 2 weeks before DC11, better 3w. 19:14:03 as we could already say "you don't have dates", rather than just a dc-a mail 19:14:24 but you should prod me heavily to get the scripts working 19:14:27 with 3 weeks you dont leave much time to actually reconfirm. 19:14:38 3 weeks sounds good to me 19:14:41 darst: *KICK*. go fix. :) 19:14:42 can we have actual dates here? 19:14:57 so that people all mean the same (e.g. debcamp dates != debconf dates, can cause confusion) 19:15:04 July 1st? 19:15:11 how about reconfirm until july 3? 19:15:19 thats 2 weeks before 1st of debcamp 19:15:22 isn't that too late? 19:15:37 how long does it actually take to organise rooms? 19:15:40 AbsintheSyringe: when do the hotel need final numbers? 19:15:41 AbsintheSyringe: everything is late... 19:15:42 that is 3 weeks before conf starts. 19:15:55 AbsintheSyringe: (as we really do *not* want to have problems with the hotels...) 19:16:01 nattie: that's a valid point 19:16:02 moray, asap 19:16:09 AbsintheSyringe: so, when do they need them? 19:16:12 asap is not a good answer 19:16:15 * h12ger lost backlog (too much scrolling) but i said everything to this topic in mail already 19:16:20 AbsintheSyringe, haven't you said before they are flexible until the end? 19:16:25 I'd go for July 3 — but the room organizers need to say if they agree 19:16:33 moray, all they told me is to give them no asap, that's all they said, the faster we have the number the better 19:16:42 govt. asked the same thing, when are they gonna have the final numbers 19:16:50 people need to be told they get sponsored food+accom 19:16:51 darst: And then, at the very end, you find out they are quite rigid :-| 19:17:00 darst, they have they just want to know what number they are working with 19:17:02 3 july it would be, for all the sponsored stuff 19:17:15 real final numbers they have after we finished debconf. 19:17:33 if they just want estimates / best guess, that is fine 19:17:34 AbsintheSyringe: you can give them current numbers, with the hint that reconfirm is running and they CHANGE, usually downwards. 19:17:35 AbsintheSyringe: if 3 July is bad, when is good? or is 3 July ok? 19:17:38 if we have 480 registered ppl, how many of them are we getting to debconf is really important number to have 19:17:41 Ganneff: Camp attendees 3rd as well? 19:17:47 zobel: yes. 19:17:54 k 19:17:57 sounds reasonable 19:18:01 AbsintheSyringe: we only know that for sure after reconfirm. 19:18:10 if it's 3rd as deadline, we should advertise 1 July as deadline IMO 19:18:17 AbsintheSyringe: and even then it changes (but then for paid stuff, so not so bad) 19:18:18 moray, by the end of this month? for example we expected 60 to 80 people for debcamp and now we have 120 19:18:19 moray: ack 19:18:20 it's really confusing 19:18:23 * micah agrees with moray 19:18:29 no 19:18:37 Ganneff, yep I agree that's why it's so important to have reconfirmation sent 19:18:39 AbsintheSyringe: no. its people registering as "you can just not reconfirm". 19:18:52 deadline is deadline. lets be serious 19:19:03 yes, i dont see a point in saying 1st, then making it 3rd 19:19:06 that just looks stupid 19:19:07 * gwolf agrees with h12ger 19:19:12 I would love if I could give govt./hotels final numbers by end of this month 19:19:14 just send out another reminder on first, if you want. 19:19:15 you dont say its the 3rd 19:19:15 h12ger: and after the deadline we need to find the actual numbers, write messages, tell the hotel 19:19:16 * aroundthfur agrees with h12ger 19:19:17 We say 3, we do 3. 19:19:20 but dont play such games 19:19:21 h12ger: I said because *we* will be late 19:19:40 AbsintheSyringe: 'end of the month' means 30 June? 19:19:41 adnan, july 3 is fine too? 19:19:46 moray: well, cannot we just send a mail today? 19:19:51 AbsintheSyringe, so do we make the deadline before 1 july? 19:20:00 gwolf, yes!!!!!!!!11 19:20:01 moray, yes, h12ger I guess so 19:20:01 and need time to look through numbers and figrue out how many rooms in each hotel 19:20:02 or is 3.july ok for everyone? 19:20:12 considering things like single/doble rooms 19:20:31 how about we have adnan call the hotel and ask if they can deal with "final numbers of sponsored" on the 4th of july? (4th, when we stop on 3rd) 19:20:43 having the numbers is a one second thing (look in stats) 19:20:47 if we wait for him to call, we can't announce 'today' 19:20:58 as we can't make the deadline earlier after we announce it 19:21:00 so july 3?! 19:21:01 they can, but govt. want to know what's the number they are working with, at least approx one 19:21:08 all this "end of june, 30th, 1st, 3rd" is a bad guesswork now, if the hotel then says "no way ever" or "fuck yes" 19:21:09 can we just go with 3rd July now? 19:21:17 adnan, we have approx nrs now 19:21:20 AbsintheSyringe: approx you can have today. 19:21:30 ok, then go with 3rd 19:21:35 if AbsintheSyringe thinks 30 June is somehow much better than 3 July, we can go with that though... 19:21:39 (god, people, speed up, i am hungry) 19:21:47 there. take 3rd, AbsintheSyringe agreed. 19:21:48 NEXT 19:21:53 h12ger, Ganneff what's the approx for debcamp, what's approx for debconf? 19:22:14 * h12ger is typin on something tiny 19:22:30 AbsintheSyringe: http://munin.debconf.org/debconf.org/skinner.debconf.org.html#Pentabarf - and more detailed we can make out of the meeting 19:22:54 (we have scripts going down to numbers per day of conf) 19:22:57 AbsintheSyringe: http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/registration-data.txt perhaps? 19:23:31 moray: next? 19:24:11 Ganneff: I would have been happier if I was confident from AbsintheSyringe that 3 July really is ok, not just that he listened after people shouted a lot, but yes 19:24:22 #topic Travel insurance 19:24:31 confidence you can only have after talking to hotel... 19:24:33 #topic Travel sponsorship 19:24:37 now this topic is from me 19:24:42 basically what i wrote to the list 19:24:46 the early money suggestion. 19:24:59 i dont want to decide that alone and i AM uncomfortable a bit with it. 19:25:18 though if we want it, fine, i can grab those *currently* highest rated from the team and hand out money 19:25:23 I don't see it as valid to prioritise the team really 19:25:25 provided some beancounter actually assigns money 19:25:40 me thinks dc12 people are a *must* 19:25:43 did we ever work out who the beancounter would be? 19:25:44 but getting money to *some* people ASAP is certainly sensible 19:25:45 moray: prioritise the team? 19:26:14 Ganneff: On this topic (but on a different subtopic), a pending thing I have from the talks team (and I'll send it right away if you say so) is to send herb@ the list of the 25 top-rated talk proposals, in order to make money allocation easier based on it 19:26:16 moray: it would prioritise whoever got a rating already. 19:26:31 moray: not neccessarily team members, though they are part of the group 19:26:44 gwolf: send 19:26:49 h12ger++ 19:26:52 Ganneff: right, but I share the concerns you voiced in your message before :) 19:27:11 but, I definitely think we should agree an initial group ASAP 19:27:17 dc12 19:27:20 and preferably send them money *before* DebConf, not after 19:27:29 now thats a different topic 19:27:29 I think dc12 people definitely need that 19:27:43 way different, and handled outside us (we can ask spi) 19:27:53 #info 52k€ fundraised (most not received), less than 5k€ expenses so far 19:27:56 now, it sounds we want this "approve early"? 19:27:57 Ganneff: it's not your team, but it is 'travel sponsorship' 19:28:15 Ganneff: what's holding up the overall ranking process? 19:28:20 Ganneff: just some people being slow ranking? 19:28:23 moray: people are ranking currently 19:28:25 nothing holds up 19:28:34 so, why can't they finish that by, say, tomorrow? ;) 19:28:35 if we have 52 i'd suugest to give 35k for travel 19:28:42 moray: because people have jobs? and lives? 19:28:45 52 now... 19:28:46 and othermeetings and whatnot? 19:29:09 i asked for something like 50 different times for a meeting. including this week. 19:29:10 oh, I also haven't considered DC10 surplus 19:29:18 you know what turned out. 19:29:23 we definitely do *not* want to spend all the money 19:29:43 who decides on how much money goes to travel spons? 19:29:52 and when can we decide on that? 19:29:57 aroundthfur: "whoever does the budget" 19:30:03 darst, dc10 plus??! 19:30:04 so darst? 19:30:05 so, lets start for the early money 19:30:11 how about we take 10k eur for that? 19:30:14 right, we can decide on other parts later 19:30:20 and leave whatever else we might be able to afford for later, the regular part? 19:30:25 but 10k for initial batch sounds absolutely fine 19:30:34 i dont want 35 or 52 or whatever k right now. 19:30:41 h12ger, dc9+dc10 combined 19:30:42 it irks enough to do the early stuff :) 19:30:48 if the rankings were ready, I'd still say do 20k 'now', not 35 19:31:14 so, if i get the ok for 10k EUR here, i can compile a list from dc12+whatever rankings, pass by herb@ and then get it out 19:31:20 as we will meet inseven days, ten k now sounds fine, though i would be fine with 35k now.. 19:31:30 and/or a team member here if they want? but i dont want -team, too public for this kind of information 19:31:37 (though, a spreadsheet will appear in -team svn) 19:31:48 Ganneff: if it's in svn, you can prod the channel about it 19:32:03 #action Ganneff to look at initial 10k batch for travel sponsorship 19:32:05 i DONT want to discuss the names in public 19:32:09 sure 19:32:17 that just gives way too much bad blood possibility 19:32:24 totally understandable 19:32:31 so, we're done on this for today? 19:32:32 so, fine, i do the 10k thing. and pass by herb 19:32:40 guess we do send mail tomorrow then. or so. 19:32:41 is there someone who can look at the issue of early *payment* 19:32:43 ? 19:32:53 someone should talk to spi 19:32:56 and/or ffis 19:32:59 Yay 19:33:00 to get their help 19:33:05 right, my question is who is 'someone' 19:33:08 ? 19:33:09 spi should have experience there 19:33:12 h12ger 19:33:17 he likes this much for dc12 people 19:33:22 talk abiout what? 19:33:23 help for what? I have current balances, and so on 19:33:24 so off he can go and help em :) 19:33:29 h12ger: early payment for them via spi/ffis 19:33:40 h12ger: speak to SPI and find out how we can pay travel sponsorship 'now', not in 6 months' time 19:33:41 spi has 10k usd recieved already 19:33:46 h12ger: and/or FFIS 19:33:48 someone needs to approach spi treasurer@ and dpl to get them money BEFORE dc 19:33:56 AND MAKE SURE THEY GET US RECEIPTS 19:34:07 h12ger: for the dc12 people, I think they might even need money to buy the tickets 19:34:16 and that we dont pay more than those state, top at what they entered 19:34:17 gwolf?! 19:34:30 for dc12 people... ;) 19:34:44 yes, dc12 people do need something in advance 19:34:46 sorry, was on another window 19:34:51 backlog... 19:34:54 moray: SPI can pay travel sponsorship as soon as it gets payment details 19:35:00 they asked already 19:35:09 schultmc: right, that's what I thought 19:35:15 good. 19:35:24 but still, this requires someone to talk to the people and make it actually happen 'now' 19:35:30 h12ger: You ping me to ask them for extra needed stuff, or to get my OK? 19:35:33 so, next. we can tell them in the mail "you get money" that they contact schultmc about getting it 19:35:44 n0rman: ↑ 19:35:56 gwolf: ? 19:36:01 Gwolf, no. you just do 19:36:03 :) 19:36:20 n0rman: re: moray+ganneff, ~15 lines above 19:36:27 so is h12ger / gwolf / someone else agreeing to push this and report back? 19:36:28 #info we tell the dc12 people in their "you got money" mail that they should talk to schultmc 19:36:33 problem solved. go on. 19:36:46 #info have dc12 people send http://www.spi-inc.org/treasurer/SPI_reimbursement_request.pdf to treasurer@spi-inc.org 19:36:53 fine 19:36:54 Ganneff: no, we still need someone to track the issue, please stop saying 'next' 19:37:01 moray: no we do not 19:37:09 gwolf 19:37:10 moray: they GET THE INFO IN THEIR YOU HAVE MONEY MAIL 19:37:15 ;) 19:37:18 Ganneff: please stop shouting all the time 19:37:21 then they can be adults and do the next step on their own 19:37:23 ok, I will 19:37:27 gwolf: yes, we need to buy the tickets before it gets more expensive 19:37:30 moray: then dont drag the meeting needlessly 19:37:33 #action gwolf to track the issue and make sure the payment gets done soon 19:37:39 #topic debconf11.com 19:37:41 moray: Ganneff's keyboard is very large 19:37:53 oh, just make dc11.com go away :-P 19:37:54 ok, the suggestion is that external links to debconf11.com are a bad idea 19:38:00 anyone want to disagree with that? 19:38:03 no. 19:38:10 I know it was done in good faith 19:38:11 they can talk to admin@ and get it properly integrated 19:38:16 but quite antithetical to our ways 19:38:18 no need for any discussion 19:38:20 we CAN run php. we dont allow it by default. 19:38:27 unless someone wants to say 'yes I disagree' 19:38:30 so let them come, we set something up 19:38:35 if they dont -> off. 19:38:46 (well, not off, but the links from us go away) 19:38:54 Ganneff: you complain about the meeting dragging -- we don't need to discuss all this, unless someone is disagreeing :) 19:39:11 this was as much for minute readers / them reading them. 19:39:19 if there's problems with the website lets just "turn it off" 19:39:46 we wanted to make arrival easier 19:39:53 since it didn't work.. 19:40:02 aroundthfur: nice idea. done wrong. next try. :) 19:40:07 yup! 19:40:22 ok, no one has disagreed yet 19:40:50 * zobel agrees 19:40:57 #info external links to debconf11.com cause problems (see list discussion), and so they should be avoided/fixed 19:41:08 #topic Attendee bags with sponsor logos 19:41:22 this was supposed to be added to the t-shirt order with the local printer 19:41:36 but it's in the meeting agenda -- what's to be discussed now? 19:42:28 the only thing that comes to my mind is to ask the local printer if they can do it.. 19:42:33 and then go on from there 19:42:36 if they can 19:42:38 great! 19:42:41 20:41 < moray> this was supposed to be added to the t-shirt order with the local printer 19:42:46 they should be able to do it 19:42:49 we already requested that 19:42:49 if not, then find someone else 19:42:58 aroundthfur: right, what you're saying is already agreed :) 19:43:05 moray, :D 19:43:09 if there is nothing to *discuss* now, we can move on 19:43:10 so, next? :) 19:43:19 #topic Linux magazine ad 19:43:36 summary: we missed the previous deadline, there are more to come 19:43:45 again, I'm not sure what people want to discuss about this 19:43:54 it's not really important for DebConf which issue we go into 19:44:06 i believe we largely have a text, and are pretty much ready to submit 19:44:07 zumbi, said we can send the ad today 19:44:08 (as long as we use the right version of the text so that the tense of the verbs matches reality) 19:44:15