16:07:48 <leogg> #startmeeting
16:07:48 <MeetBot> Meeting started Sat Oct 15 16:07:48 2011 UTC.  The chair is leogg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:07:48 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:08:07 <leogg> damn you MeetBot
16:08:37 <leogg> hi all!
16:08:46 <leogg> welcome to the global team meeting
16:08:53 <tassia> hello!
16:08:55 <aroundthfur> hi
16:09:03 <n0rman> hi!
16:09:03 <leogg> the agenda is over here ---> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Meetings
16:09:13 <leogg> #link http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Meetings
16:09:47 <leogg> #topic DebConf11 final report status
16:10:17 <leogg> so, who knows more than me on this one? :)
16:10:24 <aroundthfur> me?
16:10:24 <xamanu> I do :-)
16:10:31 <xamanu> In the last meeting of the local team I assumed the task of getting in touch with the people willing to write the report http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/FinalReport#Final_report_sections_and_assignments
16:10:42 <xamanu> I was kind of sleepy on this, sorry. I just wrote an email to the volunteer authors till yesterday (this was the text http://docs.softwarelibre.org.ni/zqgGWRMDFi).
16:10:47 <moray> we should get it done *soon*
16:10:57 <moray> as in, weeks from now at most, definitely not months
16:11:00 <xamanu> Yesterday I started coordinating stuff with nattie
16:11:09 <aroundthfur> should we get new people to write stuff?
16:11:14 <nattie> argh!  sorry, i'm here now
16:11:22 <aroundthfur> since the ones on the list now are not doing anything :S
16:11:22 <xamanu> most of the authors set themselves (or we set them) a deadline within two weeks
16:11:32 <leogg> #info xamanu assumed the task of getting in touch with the people willing to write the report http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf11/FinalReport#Final_report_sections_and_assignments
16:11:41 <tiago> i did the dirty job last year = formating
16:11:54 <tiago> i can help this year as well
16:11:55 <Ganneff> i could write a bit about herb@, but not until 23rd
16:11:56 <nattie> leogg: xamanu and i are sharing the job of putting the report together
16:12:10 <nattie> Ganneff: please do
16:12:17 <tiago> nattie: good!
16:12:18 <Ganneff> (someone put it in a reminder mail please)
16:12:29 <leogg> #info xamanu and nattie are sharing the job of putting the report together
16:12:30 <tassia> I can help tiago to help
16:12:38 <Ganneff> also maybe admin a bit, but zobel,dkg,micah should be good targets for that too
16:12:43 <dkg> tassia: i think tiago is here :)
16:12:44 <n0rman> nattie: xamanu do you need more help?
16:12:47 <leogg> do we have a deadline for the report?
16:12:56 <nattie> n0rman: i can use all the help i can get, so if you're offering, yes please
16:12:58 <moray> leogg: September?
16:13:09 <leogg> moray, :)
16:13:13 <xamanu> Deadline for authors is end of the month. I gues for formatting one week should be enough
16:13:20 <n0rman> nattie: so. count on me :)U
16:13:33 <nattie> leogg: i'm requesting that submissions be with me by two weeks from now, with the exception of aroundthfur who said he could finish his bits by the end of the month
16:13:44 <moray> xamanu: formatting won't take that long in itself, and doesn't need to wait until you have everything in
16:13:46 <nattie> n0rman: yay, thanks
16:13:55 <leogg> nattie, xamanu, will you send a reminder? or have you already done that?
16:13:58 <Ganneff> nattie: ping me end of next week or i will forget it...
16:13:59 <aroundthfur> nattie, two weeks is the end of the month :)
16:14:02 <nattie> Ganneff: mach ich
16:14:03 <moray> xamanu: so better to start before then, and to arrange a day in two weeks time to 90% finish it
16:14:08 <xamanu> moray: I mean formatting and review of texts
16:14:12 <aroundthfur> and i wrote my part..
16:14:12 <nattie> aroundthfur: shhhhhhh!  i'm giving you like two extra days!
16:14:20 <moray> xamanu: review also doesn't need to wait for articles to all be in
16:14:24 <aroundthfur> i can help vedran write his part too
16:14:33 <moray> xamanu: better for people to do it as soon as each one comes
16:14:34 <xamanu> moray: yes. we also decided to use Latex this time
16:14:43 <aroundthfur> and i guess everything else that is left..
16:14:44 <nattie> aroundthfur: and then i'll completely rewrite them when they're done? ;)
16:14:52 <tiago> xamanu: great, i was thinking the same
16:15:00 <tiago> too much pain eith scribus
16:15:00 <aroundthfur> nattie, it is up to you!
16:15:02 <tiago> with
16:15:04 <moray> xamanu: ok, as long as that doesn't mean we'll be delayed while someone fights latex to give nice layout
16:15:06 <aroundthfur> i do them the best i can!
16:15:09 <nattie> aroundthfur: you know i'm just teasing you, anyway
16:15:15 <moray> xamanu: make sure the latex-fighting is done *before* the articles come in
16:15:41 <moray> (you can use any text/images to test the layout functions you will have to write in latex)
16:15:44 <Ganneff> we did have latex already, so not much fighting should be needed if its done in latex
16:15:47 <leogg> xamanu, will you do the latex part?
16:15:55 <Ganneff> just look at older reports
16:15:55 <nattie> leogg: yeah, he said he would
16:16:04 <n0rman> i can help xamanu with the latex part :)
16:16:04 <leogg> xamanu, so nice of you! :)
16:16:06 <xamanu> leogg: yes, at least start with it
16:16:20 <xamanu> nattie: can work with the text once we have the template etc.
16:16:27 <tiago> xamanu: please put everything in our VCS once you have first codes ready
16:16:56 <xamanu> tiago: of course :-)
16:17:03 <tiago> :)
16:17:13 <leogg> #info Deadline for authors is end of the month, xamanu and n0rman formatting final document on Latex
16:17:32 <leogg> nice!
16:17:37 <nattie> good, then i don't have to fight it myself :)
16:18:12 <dkg> just to clarify, putting the text in the wiki is sufficient for authors, right?
16:18:23 <moray> leogg: end of the month?  that's even more than two weeks
16:18:41 <moray> most of these articles should take 20 minutes to write, really
16:18:46 <leogg> moray, two weeks plus one day?
16:18:54 <xamanu> moray: tell the authors.
16:18:54 <dkg> or do the section authors need to do anything beyond wiki edits?
16:19:13 <leogg> moray, just quoting xamanu ---> <xamanu> Deadline for authors is end of the month.
16:19:22 <aroundthfur> i would like to know the same thing dkg is asking about?!?
16:19:27 <moray> dkg: at some point it ought to be moved from the wiki to svn for sanity
16:19:36 <Ganneff> the earlier the better
16:19:39 <moray> dkg: preferably before people start doing much proofreading etc.
16:19:42 <Ganneff> just edit text files and check em in?
16:19:55 * Ganneff sure doesnt want to edit a stupid wiki page
16:20:19 <moray> Ganneff: but with svn you lose the fun that someone can edit at the same time and make it lose your text!
16:20:29 <leogg> :D
16:20:46 <Ganneff> or have a useless edit box in a browser, not a real editor
16:20:53 * dkg is fine with anyone moving the text i've already written to the wiki to svn
16:20:56 <Ganneff> or suddenly have ctrl-w kill your work
16:21:00 <tiago> i'd avoid wiki editing as much as possible
16:21:05 <leogg> do we have anything else on the final report?
16:21:09 <Ganneff> brrr, wikis are nice for some things, but for real text? yuck
16:21:26 <moray> leogg: when do the coordinators say they will have it ready?
16:21:36 <moray> I would like "two weeks plus a few days", not "two weeks plus a few weeks"
16:21:42 <dkg> Ganneff: not all wikis require the use of a browser textarea
16:21:47 * dkg drops the topic
16:21:51 <leogg> moray, three weeks?
16:21:57 * fil hands Ganneff ikiwiki
16:22:04 <n0rman> leogg: two weeks plus a few days is ok i thiunku
16:22:13 <leogg> nattie, xamanu, ?
16:22:18 <Ganneff> fil, dkg: sure, but thats not what we are talking about here, so off you go, in that corner over there. :)
16:22:47 <nattie> i know the articles are short, but people also have lives
16:22:48 * DrDub joins fil and dkg in the corner to discuss how to make it easier for people to submit stuff for the report
16:22:57 <xamanu> I'd prefer to stick with 3 weeks. I see more work to do than moray is painting right now.
16:23:16 <xamanu> We have been waiting for months, how much do import a couple of days right now?
16:23:20 <tiago> xamanu: +1
16:23:30 <nattie> indeed
16:23:33 <nattie> +1 from me too
16:23:41 <leogg> nattie, xamanu, three weeks then for final version of the dc11 report?
16:23:41 <xamanu> Or is there a real reason why we need it for a specific date?
16:24:11 <xamanu> yes
16:24:11 <moray> xamanu: er, the fact it's already late makes it more urgent, not less
16:24:36 <Ganneff> xamanu: the earlier == the better, but a day or 3 more makes no big difference at this point. as long as those dont get a month or three
16:24:44 <moray> xamanu: we need it ASAP for going to old sponsors and potential sponsors as part of a "please sponsor (again) next year" round
16:24:50 <leogg> Ganneff, +1
16:24:56 <xamanu> I agree with you
16:25:10 <moray> xamanu: since this stuff doesn't actually take *that* long, giving people weeks can mean they actually forget and take much longer
16:25:33 * dkg agrees with a shorter timeline
16:25:46 <moray> xamanu: same for the articles, you will need to remind people often as you said two weeks, if you said "who can write them *today*?" you would have it rather quicker/with less hassle :p
16:25:47 <dkg> let's just get it done
16:26:16 <nattie> oh, i will pester people
16:26:32 * n0rman agrees with moray
16:26:43 <nattie> ok, whose articles are complete now and just want setting?
16:27:03 <moray> nattie: I don't think we should go through individual articles in this meeting -- unless there are topics with no authors yet
16:27:08 <tiago> i think formatting + proof reading takes longer we're expecting here
16:27:17 <nattie> moray: those whose articles are ready can tell me in /query then
16:27:24 <xamanu> gwolf, zack and velimir asked all for a two week timeframe
16:27:32 * Ganneff too
16:27:36 <tiago> we need a bunch of pictures for the report too
16:27:46 <xamanu> we cannot replace them, by people who write it todaz
16:27:53 <xamanu> today
16:28:01 <rmayorga> gallery might help tiago
16:28:07 <nattie> tiago: we were thinking of raiding your flickr because it has kittens
16:28:29 <Ganneff> with pictures make sure you ask for the right license for them
16:28:39 <n0rman> gallery has cool pic i think
16:28:42 <Ganneff> also for any (longer) quotes you may take
16:28:42 <tiago> nattie: i'm leaving flickr, so you got no kittens :p
16:28:55 <nattie> dammit.  i should have taken that kitten with me.
16:29:06 <Ganneff> can we go back on this meeting and continue?
16:29:09 <fil> re the formatting thing, it would be good to have a post commit hook generate PDF, so that if it turns out that someone is using characters that make laTex barf, that gets picked up early
16:29:21 <nattie> fil: point
16:29:30 <Ganneff> we put the latex into -data or so on alioth?
16:29:33 <leogg> nattie, xamanu, three weeks then? two? two and a half? six months? :D
16:29:36 <aroundthfur> i am actually done with my articles
16:29:50 <aroundthfur> i was saying i would get other people to do theirs
16:29:50 <tiago> just saying that selecting proper pictures also takes time, in summary, the current deadline is too optimistic IMO
16:29:54 <Ganneff> or do we use the reports svn we had in the past? with the latter its easy, with the alioth one - yuck, need to cherck the machine has all needed stuff installed
16:29:58 <aroundthfur> but that role has been filled
16:30:01 <nattie> aroundthfur: i just need to edit yours a bit more now
16:30:18 * nattie is in favour of three weeks
16:30:19 <xamanu> i still think three weeks is good
16:30:27 <aroundthfur> i can help anyone else if they want my help..
16:30:28 <nattie> hey, at least we got the sponsor bags out early
16:30:40 <nattie> aroundthfur: help me.  i need all the help i can get (just on principle)
16:30:43 <leogg> three weeks it is then
16:31:07 <tiago> i think three week is not enough, but away better than two :)
16:31:13 <leogg> #agreed Deadline for final version of the dc11 final report is in three weeks
16:31:24 <leogg> ok, let's move on then
16:31:29 <tiago> leogg: thanks
16:31:33 <nattie> leogg: can you specify that it's the 5th of november?
16:31:43 <nattie> then nobody will forget ;)
16:32:01 <leogg> #agreed Final date for dc11 report is 5th of November
16:32:14 <leogg> #topic Official dates for DebConf12
16:32:20 <nattie> option b please
16:32:35 <leogg> so, n0rman... do you want to take it from here?
16:32:51 <n0rman> ok
16:33:27 <n0rman> so, global team told us (lcal team) to deciude date
16:33:57 <n0rman> sou we  want option A
16:34:22 <n0rman> then, we sent a mail to -team but we have nuo muchu feedbacku to change dates
16:34:36 <moray> please link to the wiki / translate that to actual dates
16:34:45 <n0rman> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Dates
16:34:56 <Ganneff> a means 1st july to 14th july 2012
16:35:12 <leogg> #ilink  http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Dates
16:35:20 <leogg> #link  http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Dates
16:35:22 <n0rman> Ganneff: yes....
16:35:47 <rmayorga> I like Option B, mostly because those dates are holydays for .sv:)
16:36:03 * nattie agrees with rmayorga for other reasons
16:36:08 <leogg> #info Local team prefers option A (July 1-14th)
16:36:28 <nattie> #info there is also support for option B
16:36:28 <n0rman> if we want to make the finaldecision more inclusive, we need feedback  to know if there are a betterdate for allthan option A
16:36:30 <Ganneff> well, if localteam wants A, then A it is...
16:36:47 <Ganneff> there will ALWAYS be people preferring other dates. always had been.
16:37:04 <rmayorga> yes, I'll agree with any option that local-team takes
16:37:31 <Ganneff> do we have any other big/known (opensource) event during that time? that could make our attendees scream too much at us for the dates?
16:37:37 <nattie> i can live with whichever option, really, but it will be a pain
16:37:38 <leogg> we have already been working around that option, so maybe the best thing to do is to stick with it
16:37:52 <n0rman> for logistics and hotels, we prefer option A
16:37:52 <leogg> Ganneff, not that we're aware of
16:37:58 <moray> nattie: this is because of your olympics thing, not anything to do with nicaragua?
16:38:14 <leogg> n0rman, +1
16:38:38 <karora> Sounds like you've made the decision for A and we should announce it and move on.
16:38:39 <Ganneff> right. its a localteam thing, they want A, so A, go on? :)
16:38:47 <nattie> moray: feel free to book expensive flights, tehn
16:38:59 <n0rman> nattie: said the maybe for olympics maybe a lout of europeans eople will preffer option B, but since we are in America, we do not know how is that
16:39:07 <Ganneff> please make a formal nice announcement in coordination with the debian press/publicity team (hello Tolimar ) and THEN set it into blog.debconf.org too
16:39:18 <moray> nattie: sorry?  please explain
16:39:22 <nattie> look, i'm fine with A.  would have preferred B but A is fine
16:39:24 <Ganneff> and when they send the mail, ask them to also CC debconf-announce
16:39:32 <tiago> Option B is cheaper
16:39:48 <moray> tiago: in what ways?
16:40:01 <nattie> moray: the return to Europe at the end of option A will be expensive as it would coincide with olympic athletes arriving in the UK
16:40:27 <leogg> tiago, actually hotel prices might be slightly higher during option B
16:40:33 <karora> nattie: Don't bet on it.  I just left & returned to NZ during the RWC to much the same claim and it was not so.
16:40:37 <tiago> moray: actually anything out of jun/jul has cheaper air tickets
16:40:41 <nattie> karora: fair enoough
16:40:50 <xamanu> nattie: As far as it is my experience. August flights are more expensive than in July (to and from Europe)
16:40:54 <tiago> i mean b is cheaper than a for air tickets
16:40:58 <karora> nattie: The airlines had laid on much extra capacity.
16:41:44 <nattie> ok, i'll clearly have to find somewhere else to hide from london for a fortnight, but it's ok
16:42:12 <Ganneff> right, so can we make a notice that the dates should be announced in coordination with press team and go on? :)
16:42:26 <leogg> Ganneff, yes, please :)
16:42:33 <Ganneff> leogg: so do it, mr. chair
16:42:36 <rmayorga> nattie: you can go to ometepe, in .ni >)
16:42:42 <leogg> Ganneff, ;)
16:42:48 <n0rman> nattie:central america trip! :)
16:42:49 <leogg> #agreed DebConf12 will be held on 1-14 July 2012
16:43:05 <leogg> #agreed The dates should be announced in coordination with press team
16:43:17 <leogg> nice!
16:43:24 <leogg> I feel much better now :)
16:43:45 <leogg> #topic DebConf12 Sponsorship levels
16:44:08 <moray> leogg: before announcing too widely, please discuss exact arrival days/departure days on the list
16:44:22 <moray> leogg: we tend to have some confusion over that each year
16:44:27 <Ganneff> well, proofread the announce via that too
16:44:30 <leogg> moray, righto
16:44:53 <rmayorga> moray: it should be easy, just do the same as previous(not dc11) debconfs
16:45:09 <Ganneff> so, whats with the levels?
16:45:33 <moray> rmayorga: it's not been the same every time, precisely due to the confusion / due to people failing to correctly copy previous ones :p
16:45:51 <moray> levels is for the sponsorship team
16:46:00 <n0rman> well, we are babies on debconf thing and we need to know how to setup sponsorshiplevel :)
16:46:03 <moray> who will admit to having worked with the levels before?
16:46:11 <leogg> h01ger, you added sponsorship levels to the agenda?
16:46:13 <moray> (that is, worked actively within the sponsorhip steam)
16:46:15 * DrDub waves
16:46:16 * Ganneff admits to always have hated the level sh*t...
16:46:20 <fil> moray: good point -- would be good to have some "If you fancy staying before/after, here are some good reasons to choose particular dates" and point people at the coordination pages early
16:46:22 <moray> er, "sponsorship team" perhaps ;)
16:46:22 * karora worked with sponsorship levels for other conferences, not thi one.
16:46:41 <moray> though sponsor-hip steam sounds interesting
16:46:43 <DrDub> I worked on them for dc10
16:46:55 <Ganneff> so, if the sponsorship team is working on it, then do we need to do anything on it in this meeting?
16:47:06 <Ganneff> except maybe pinging them to get a status reported on list?
16:47:13 <n0rman> moray: so we need to have a meeting with sponsorship-team?
16:47:24 <Ganneff> n0rman: or mails
16:47:33 <n0rman> Ganneff: -team mailing list?
16:47:34 <moray> n0rman: well, with whoever was *previously* sponsorship team, including people who won't have time for this year
16:47:48 <n0rman> DrDub: with you? :)
16:47:55 <DrDub> n0rman: sure
16:47:57 <n0rman> karora: ?
16:47:58 <Ganneff> n0rman: and/or sponsors-team
16:48:00 <Ganneff> list
16:48:19 <DrDub> n0rman: and h01ger? :)
16:48:33 <n0rman> DrDub: sure :)
16:48:50 <zumbi> while I have done work for sponsorship team, I havent work on levels myself
16:48:51 <Ganneff> but also, defining levels - localteam can do a lot of work for that... they know the cost levels / money situation in .ni
16:49:00 <leogg> n0rman, will you take care of poking sponsor-team and see what needs to be done?
16:49:15 <Ganneff> based on that and the levels we had ion the past they can see what actually makes sense to also keep local sponsors in a good relation witzh the levels
16:49:29 <leogg> Ganneff, +1
16:49:35 <Ganneff> and feed that to the sponsorship team
16:49:37 <n0rman> leogg: yes!
16:50:05 <n0rman> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack#.C2.BFC.C3.B3mo_le_beneficia_DebConf.3F
16:50:17 <n0rman> i took sponsosorship levels from DC10
16:50:20 * fil points out that by assuming that previous people were still part of the sponsorship team we ended up with nobody doing anything about it at one point mid-DC11
16:50:31 <leogg> #agreed n0rman contacts sponsor-team to begin working with sponsorship levels for dc12
16:50:47 <DrDub> n0rman: you did? in my postmortem I said they where wrong ;)
16:51:10 <n0rman> DrDub: uh :/ really?
16:51:25 <n0rman> DrDub: i did, from the official sponsorship brochure
16:51:44 <DrDub> n0rman: http://www.debian-administration.org/users/rkd/weblog/8
16:51:45 <aroundthfur> i would like to confirm what fil said
16:52:09 <leogg> anybody else wants to add anything else about sponsorship?
16:52:26 <leogg> ...or can we move on?
16:52:39 <aroundthfur> leogg, try and do it asap
16:52:42 <n0rman> Ganneff: is there a link for the sponsor-team mailing list? i can't find it :S
16:52:54 <Ganneff> lists.debconf.org
16:52:55 <aroundthfur> it's gonna be harder the closer the conf. start gets!
16:53:13 <n0rman> duh! thanks Ganneff  :)
16:53:16 <leogg> #topic AOB
16:53:16 <n0rman> DrDub: reading...
16:53:18 * Ganneff has one AOB. Just a general info on DC11 travelmoney fun: its going, but slowly. its all with ffis/spi for some weeks already, and we are waiting on them. whenever i get a "we processed XY" im updating the tables i keep in svn, and sometimes i ping em for status. So some people already have their money, but not all. </AOB>
16:53:20 <leogg> any other business, folks?
16:53:51 <Ganneff> (the same goes for newbies money, in case someone asks)
16:53:59 <leogg> #info general info on DC11 travelmoney fun: its going, but slowly. its all with ffis/spi for some weeks already, and we are waiting on them. whenever i get a "we processed XY" im updating the tables i keep in svn, and sometimes i ping em for status. So some people already have their money, but not all.
16:54:03 * dam was about to ask about reimbursements. thanks!
16:54:13 <n0rman> i have another one :)
16:54:18 <moray> fil: yes, I think at the end of DC11 there was *no one* admitting to be sponsorship team any more
16:54:30 <fil> moray: exactly
16:54:37 <moray> fil: so we should start from assuming that even people who worked before have to be persuaded back, not that they are still working automatically
16:54:39 <n0rman> Ganneff: can we have the moderation password for dc12 mailing list?
16:54:55 <Ganneff> n0rman: uhm, sure, isnt it with one of you already?
16:55:08 <fil> moray: quite -- otherwise it gets to be Sombody Eles's Problem
16:55:14 <Ganneff> thought so. but yeah
16:55:19 <n0rman> Ganneff: no, it's not
16:55:30 <DrDub> fil, moray: makes sense. What about trying to find localteam people willing to join in?
16:55:45 <moray> DrDub: yup, we already told the local team people it's their problem :)
16:55:55 <moray> DrDub: the issue is more to find/repersuade some international people
16:55:56 <DrDub> moray: awesome :)
16:56:07 <moray> preferably including some with previous experience
16:56:13 <DrDub> moray: I'll help, I speak Spanish
16:56:14 <Ganneff> n0rman: your query. that should be the listmod one
16:56:22 <leogg> DrDub, please do!
16:56:37 <DrDub> moray: just don't want going around poking people (but don't mind being poked ;)
16:56:59 <leogg> DrDub, subscribe to the local mailing list
16:57:01 <Ganneff> n0rman: second line is listadmin (be a bit more careful with that one please)
16:57:24 <leogg> ok, let's wrap this up!
16:57:50 <leogg> thank you all for coming!
16:57:54 <leogg> #endmeeting