17:55:10 #startmeeting 17:55:10 Meeting started Mon Aug 13 17:55:10 2012 UTC. The chair is h01ger. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:55:10 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:55:11 * gwolf can _not_ chair today (quite busy - will try to follow clsoely the discussion anyway) 17:55:15 who wants to chair 17:55:16 cate: It depends on what you call homogenously, but I count 1-2 italian native speaker, 3-4 german native speakers and 4 french 17:55:16 ? 17:55:20 write protocol? 17:55:21 ouch, meeting agenda looks huge 17:55:22 * OdyX volunteers. 17:55:28 OdyX: thanks! :D 17:55:33 #topic please say hi 17:55:39 * OdyX says hi. 17:55:40 hello 17:55:42 * h01ger propoes 90min meeting and fetches his food 17:55:43 hi 17:55:48 o/ 17:56:09 moinmoin 17:56:10 h01ger: I was about to propose 2h tight but if we can hold everything in 90 minutes. 17:56:11 hi 17:56:11 gaudenz: 3 native speakers. Also we have two tessiner 17:56:12 hi 17:56:15 hi 17:56:16 hi 17:56:16 hi 17:56:17 hi 17:56:37 #topic Introduction - Presences 17:56:46 hi 17:56:47 hola 17:56:49 OdyX: I suggest pingall 17:57:07 hola, short meetings are better (people get tired after about an hour) 17:57:27 MeetBot: pingall 17:57:27 zobel: You must supply a description with the `pingall` command. We don't want to go wasting people's times looking for why they are pinged. 17:57:36 MeetBot: pingall meeting now 17:57:36 meeting now 17:57:36 aliceinwire allison alphanet amaya AndrewLee bdale bgupta blarson bremner brother- bubulle carnil Caroll cate Clint cpt_nemo dachenka dam darst dba dkg edrz FBI fil formorer franklin fx__ Ganneff gaudenz gismo gnugr gregoa gwolf h01ger hask Heiserhorn Heiserhorn_ 17:57:36 hug Hydroxide jeremyb jimbodoors josernestodavila jvw Kaare karora kevinmoilar lazyb0y leogg lilix lucas Lunacy MadameZou madduck mangoderosa marga MeetBot moray msantana n0rman nattie nomada nomadium OdyX paravoid paulproteus rhalina Rhonda rmayorga rockon 17:57:36 schultmc schultmc_ sgran Sledge taffit tatotat tiago Tincho tokkee vorlon xamanu XTaran zobel zumbi 17:57:36 meeting now 17:57:38 MeetBot: pingall. IRC DebConf Meeting starts now; agenda: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 17:57:38 OdyX: Error: "pingall." is not a valid command. 17:57:48 zobel, ? 17:57:53 #chair OdyX 17:57:53 Current chairs: OdyX h01ger 17:57:59 OdyX, try again 17:58:03 MeetBot: pingall IRC DebConf Meeting starts now; agenda: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 17:58:03 IRC DebConf Meeting starts now; agenda: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 17:58:03 aliceinwire allison alphanet amaya AndrewLee bdale bgupta blarson bremner brother- bubulle carnil Caroll cate Clint cpt_nemo dachenka dam darst dba dkg edrz FBI fil formorer franklin fx__ Ganneff gaudenz gismo gnugr gregoa gwolf h01ger hask Heiserhorn_ hug 17:58:03 Hydroxide jeremyb jimbodoors josernestodavila jvw Kaare karora kevinmoilar lazyb0y leogg lilix lucas Lunacy MadameZou madduck mangoderosa marga MeetBot moray msantana n0rman nattie nomada nomadium OdyX paravoid paulproteus rhalina Rhonda rmayorga rockon schultmc 17:58:03 schultmc_ sgran Sledge taffit tatotat tiago Tincho tokkee vorlon xamanu XTaran zobel zumbi 17:58:03 IRC DebConf Meeting starts now; agenda: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 17:58:07 Whee 17:58:12 Are we done with introductions ? 17:58:12 h01ger: it just didn't like the period 17:58:30 #topic Introduction - Timing 17:58:34 hi 17:58:49 alphanet, who are you? 17:58:55 I propose to try to hold in 90 minutes (end at UTC 19h30) and continue up to 20h00 if needed but to stop at 20h00 in any case. 17:58:56 hi 17:59:01 hi vk3tqr. we just started, logs are at meetbot.debian.net 17:59:27 h01ger: Marc S. 17:59:34 I'll try to be expeditive; come prepared and be concise. 17:59:56 #topic DC12 - Status - Final Report 18:00:05 DC12 localteam: how is it going ? 18:00:14 only one text has been written till now 18:00:34 we still have 4 topics without person who is willing to take it 18:00:48 i think people will start writing within these weeks 18:00:59 xamanu: target release date ? (or freeze date ? :-p ) 18:01:06 we have a deadline, because we had agreed with a sponsor to hand over the report 18:01:06 but nexanta has paid afaik, so all incoming money is there (afaik). the missing 4700 USD are also on the way to seminole (money transfer in progress) 18:01:09 * leogg starting his part next week 18:01:16 xamanu: I'll do the registration part 18:01:19 xamanu: FWIW I signed up for some (2?) texts, and am willing to do them (and help in layout as last time, if needed). But please ping me to remind me! 18:01:20 i would propose end of august 18:01:35 great, gwolf! 18:01:38 s/me/us/ 18:01:47 #info DC12 - Final report deadline: End of August. 18:02:11 xamanu: need anything more/less from the team for this topic ? 18:02:27 * h01ger misses a "proposed" in that #info but hey :) 18:02:37 in case anybody here wants to take another topic, please put your name here : http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/FinalReport :) 18:02:55 Odyx: no, just from the volunteer authors ;) 18:02:58 * h01ger still needs to send those thank-you letters to the sponsors (which were prepared by moray) 18:03:04 #info DC12 Final Report coordination page is http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/FinalReport 18:03:07 have the thank-you bags been send? 18:03:26 #topic DC12 - Status - Sponsor Bags 18:03:46 h01ger, nope.. sorry, been stuck with RL issues.. going to post office on Wednesday 18:03:49 i handed over personally one :) 18:03:57 :) 18:04:18 uca has their sponsor bags as well 18:04:29 * Hydroxide saw a highlight for the meeting - don't have time to be involved in stuff right now except for penta replacement when we get back to that, sorry. 18:04:33 fwiw, everyone can use #info and #action 18:04:57 DC12 team: need anything from non-localteam for the sponsor bags ? 18:05:54 OdyX, nope... have the addresses and the money, I need just go to the post office and send them 18:05:57 * h01ger waves to Hydroxide - dont worry todo va :) 18:06:29 #info DC12 sponsor bags status: ongoing, people just need to get rid of their normal lives. :-) 18:06:47 #topic DC12 - Status - Thank you letters 18:07:11 (STOP me if I'm going too fast, I'm just trying to get over the things that don't need discussion as fast as possible. 18:07:26 OdyX: your are doing very well! 18:07:31 Thank you letters; DC12 localteam: I guess it's the same as sponsor bags ? 18:07:32 * h01ger still needs to send those thank-you letters to the sponsors (which were prepared by moray) 18:07:39 ah okay, it's global-ish 18:07:49 if someone wants to take this away from me 18:07:53 i'd be delighted 18:08:25 h01ger: do you have something blocking you besides "life" ? I mean, is it worth finding another volunteer ? 18:08:26 ideally a sponsors team person *for this year* 18:08:30 h01ger: what does it involve? Just printing them on paper and sending? 18:08:36 it basically sending the same letter to 20 different email addresses, best with some manual wording.. 18:08:37 they are designed to be emailed 18:08:50 DC13: someone ? 18:08:51 so yes, add a cover email saying something yourself 18:09:04 preferedly someone doing sponsors stuff 18:09:06 and saying that the bags are being sent, in cases where they don't have them already 18:09:17 How about offloading this to the respective sponsor contact persons? 18:09:20 it is a good way to make initial contact for this year's sponsor stuff 18:09:33 gaudenz: if that means something different from "it won't happen" :) 18:09:38 OdyX: I am getting it if h01ger explains me the procedure via email ;-) 18:09:54 #info Thank-you sponsor letters are currently done by h01ger but could be done by a DC13 local handling sponsors' stuff. 18:09:57 but I suspect it's more efficient for one person to do it, editing the "personal" message for each case 18:10:00 h01ger: ^agreed ? 18:10:15 * gismo is already doing sponsor stuff for DC13... 18:11:03 * h01ger happily agrees 18:11:16 i want to be involved to something with debconf-team 18:11:17 #action h01ger sends the "Thank you sponsors" instructions to gismo (and to the list if relevant); 18:11:18 #action gismo, upon receipt from the instruction of h01ger, handles the sending of the "Thank You sponsors" letters. 18:11:23 hi urbec - backlog is at meetbot.debian.net/... 18:11:28 #save 18:12:01 gnugr: who are you ? 18:12:02 do we need a Spanish speaking person for the Central American sponsors? we have a translated version of the thank you letter... 18:12:14 but not the "personal message" 18:12:25 ah, good point: DC12 locals ? debian-es ? 18:12:45 * leogg volunteers 18:12:46 xamanu: I guess so 18:12:48 i think it should be fine a D12 local. 18:12:57 * h01ger will send mail to both 18:13:01 * h01ger gets food 18:13:04 h01ger: -sponsors? 18:13:05 gnugr: We're in the middle of a meeting... 18:13:06 #action leogg, in contact with gismo, handles the -es "Thank you sponsors" mails. 18:13:10 just a query - do we make any follow up with sponsors about sponsorship objectives, e.g. did they sponsor to try and recruit people, to sell a product, and did these things actually happen? 18:13:40 ok forget about and sorry 18:13:44 #idea just a query - do we make any follow up with sponsors about sponsorship objectives, e.g. did they sponsor to try and recruit people, to sell a product, and did these things actually happen? 18:13:49 gnugr: We'll be happy to answer your questions after the meeting. Hope, that's ok for you. 18:13:55 gismo, ack+yes 18:13:56 vk3tqr: it sounds slightly dangerous to challenge if their sponsorship was really useful to them ;) 18:13:57 ok 18:14:20 #topic DC12 - Status - Sponsoring process 18:14:26 ? 18:14:28 herb@ ? 18:14:29 whats this topic about? 18:14:32 it can also provide good reasons for them to repeat the sponsorship 18:14:47 h01ger: just a status update: is there anything more to do/discuss about this ? 18:15:02 vk3tqr, its a nice idea but unless you propose to do the work... its not even worth discussing it imo. we have lots of important stuff to do already.. 18:15:02 ah no sorry, 18:15:15 #topic DC12 - Status - Travel reimbursement process 18:15:24 thats also done afaik 18:15:37 i think dc12 is over, at least for this meeting. aint it? ;) 18:15:59 #info Travel reimbursment is done at this point in time. 18:16:00 #topic DC12 - Others ? 18:16:01 * h01ger is sad that its over... 18:16:08 Anything else wrt DC12 ? 18:16:09 stop, 18:16:14 OdyX: I don't think the *reimbursement* is done 18:16:23 OdyX: but the process is in action 18:16:33 #topic DC12 - Status - Travel reimbursement process 18:16:35 should we aks the travel sponsored people if the money already arrived, are the payments done? 18:16:50 moray: fair enough. 18:17:01 gaudenz: we could, but isn't it backwards ? 18:17:03 gaudenz: no, they will ask us if they need money 18:17:39 I don't care, but I thought it might be nice and not a lot of effort, but useless if we know that some payments did not happen yet. 18:17:50 I think every year we save some money because of this ;-) 18:17:55 I propose #info Travel reimbursement has been handled, money isn't transferred to everyone but the process is ongoing. 18:18:25 next? 18:18:30 #info Travel reimbursement has been handled, money isn't transferred to everyone but the process is ongoing. 18:18:31 cate: This year we will not, all the forms but one were filled at debconf. 18:18:35 Anything else wrt DC12 ? 18:18:37 is the order on http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 sensible? 18:18:47 * h01ger have spent 23min already. out of 90. 18:18:52 I think yes 18:18:59 OdyX: It's ok, next topic 18:19:06 gaudenz: don't matter. Anyway nothing important 18:19:37 #topic DebConf - Global - Lists.debconf.org / Infra 18:19:55 OdyX, contrary to what i just /msged i now think the order is perfect... less important stuff first, and fast! 18:20:00 Fact is we had downtime, IMHO the question there is if there's something to be done. 18:20:09 the admin team needs help 18:20:11 Ganneff: ^ there for a rapid status ? 18:20:12 of people 18:20:17 hw-wise we are fine 18:20:37 #info the admin team needs more people doing admin work. wanna help? -> please mail admin@debconf.org 18:20:41 h01ger: I think Ganneff wanted a new machine for wiki + others 18:20:46 shall we move debconf-lists to lists.d.o on a seperate mail domain? 18:21:07 can we move to the next topic please? i'm happy to discuss all of this admin stuff but not here+now 18:21:08 lists.d.o can handle more than one domain. 18:21:10 I don't think we can/should decide that in the middle of this meeting 18:21:11 zobel: please (even if I do not see why a separate domain, debconf-$WHATEVER@lists.debian.org would do the trick fine) 18:21:23 zobel: if that's not yet agreed upon between admin@dc and DSA, I propose to not discuss this here. 18:21:40 zobel, are you interested in moving the archives also? and can we easily setup sub domains + lists for several mini debconfs? 18:21:43 this is about listmasters and admin@dc, not DSA. 18:21:56 formorer: ^ 18:22:00 OdyX, contrary to what i just /msged i now think the order is perfect... less important stuff first, and fast! 18:22:07 * h01ger is not sure he still agrees 18:22:18 I think we could just decided that zobel reaches out to listmasters and make a proposal to the list, if he is up to this.- 18:22:18 zobel: mh? 18:22:19 lets discuss that at an other time. 18:22:27 #topic subversion => Git 18:22:33 gaudenz: ack. we can do that. 18:22:41 * h01ger really really doesnt want 2h meeting 18:23:01 #action zobel reaches out to listmasters and admin@dc.o for the lists move and makes a proposal to the list. 18:23:06 h01ger: thanks. 18:23:12 h01ger: so can we simply move up the Vaumarcus stuff? We have a visit there tomorrow... 18:23:13 gaudenz: status update wrt svn=> git ? 18:23:14 moray, darst: are your concerns addressed by my second last mail? 18:23:38 gismo, we have an agenda. its freely available at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120813 18:23:40 we are at ~ 30 minutes and going well IMHO, no need to skip points. 18:24:01 If not, we can just skip over this, otherwise I'd like to have an ACK to proceed with implementation. 18:24:08 h01ger: thanks, I know about the agenda 18:24:19 . 18:24:20 gismo, and if we dont discuss lists moves or penta replacements for hours, we will get to the real beefy points soon 18:24:53 gaudenz, the consensus on the list was already reached, wasnt it? or whats up to decide now? 18:25:00 (svn2git) 18:25:28 there was some substantial opposition by moray and darst with some very valid points. I just want to know if they have been adresses from their pov. 18:25:46 to me the consensus was not that clear. 18:25:58 gaudenz: I'm not sure what's your "second last mail", I don't remember being persuaded 18:26:19 moray: id:"87ipdflb2v.fsf@meteor.durcheinandertal.bofh" 18:26:21 though I would have seen the rough consensus as being for, even if darst and I were unconvinced 18:27:02 gaudenz: list link would really be much quicker 18:27:18 moray: your point being that we can stick with svn or that we can do a better git repo than what's proposed ? 18:27:20 is there a msgid search on lists.debconf.org? 18:27:27 can you sort out the remaining details via list? 18:27:46 I would rather it continued on list, this meeting has enough without starting to argue about this 18:27:46 h01ger: I don't think it's about details. the details are sorted. 18:27:49 (and still do so within the next, say, 7 days= 18:27:49 gaudenz: AFAIK not for lists.debconf.org 18:27:58 gaudenz, so whats the big question left? 18:28:16 If there is merit of doing a conversion at all. 18:28:34 But if moray also thinks that there was some consensus for that I'll just proceed. 18:28:54 gaudenz: care to #action yourself ? 18:29:22 .oO(So that I'm not the one enforcing non-consensus :-} ) 18:29:43 #action: gaudenz proceeds with the plan outlined in id:"87ipdflb2v.fsf@meteor.durcheinandertal.bofh" in cooperation with Ganneff 18:29:49 #agreed rough consenus on doing conversion. gaudenz, please go ahead (carefully, maybe involving the list) 18:29:56 gaudenz: I would rather see real consensus, of course 18:30:13 can we skip penta switch please? or move it to later? 18:30:20 i.e. real acknowledgement of the points, but maybe I somehow missed whatever this message is (doubt it) 18:30:21 i think we should discuss le camp now 18:30:23 yes 18:30:24 #topic DebConf - Global - Penta replacement 18:30:26 moray: so please reply on list, I'll not do anything before next week anyway. 18:30:29 and not get more tired... 18:30:36 OdyX, agreed? 18:30:42 gaudenz: I have been travelling for work for 2 1/2 weeks, probably am for another 3 1/2 18:30:45 well, gwolf is disconnected and he's the one leading that point, no ? 18:31:10 OdyX: so skip this? 18:31:13 #info Penta replacement: please discuss on list and run some tests with the candidate replacements. 18:31:30 #topic DebConf13 - Status update - Logo decision 18:31:35 gismo: your turn: ^ 18:31:36 OdyX, no, lets move it to later. /me changes agenda 18:31:39 OdyX, NO 18:31:40 NO 18:31:41 NO 18:31:44 le camp 18:31:45 not le logo 18:31:48 h01ger: THANKS 18:31:49 please 18:31:50 again, I disagree. 18:31:55 h01ger: logo is just 2 minutes 18:32:04 I think a rapid status update is worth having in the minutes. 18:32:09 and in a team meeting. 18:32:12 OdyX, you dont get what i ment 18:32:15 move it to later 18:32:20 not remove it from the meeting 18:32:23 sigh 18:32:39 h01ger, gismo: please contribute to the agenda before the meeting next time instead of doing meta-discussion during the meeting. This is very hard if someone tries to chair a meeting. 18:33:01 if we had the #info bullet (15 seconds) instead of the argumentation, we would already be at "Le Camp" 18:33:42 (gaudenz: h01ger is chair, this is why I was asking him, never mind) 18:34:02 Can we continue? 18:34:04 gismo: He might be a meetbot chair, but in the begining it was agreed that OdyX chairs. 18:34:19 #info logo process is over, congrats to the winner. 18:34:24 this is my last word during the meeting on the meta topic, just continue 18:34:40 We still need someone to continue this work to transform the logo into a final logo and design for the rest 18:34:57 OdyX: is not that person still me? 18:34:58 18:35:15 gismo: that wasn't necessarily clear for everyone. #info ? 18:35:16 OdyX, I will 18:35:41 #action leogg and gismo continue to work on the logo to expand it to a global graphical design. 18:35:42 Thanks 18:35:48 OdyX, I've already put some stuff on the wiki based on the feedback 18:35:53 sure, np 18:35:58 (in the past we had several simultaining chairs and that worked well. OdyX and myself didnt speak about it and appearantly didnt agree on the modus. i will shut up now) 18:36:05 #topic DebConf13 - Status update - Venue issues 18:36:27 h01ger: agreed, that needs preliminar discussion. I'll just keep going. 18:36:32 Has anyone read the replies to my mail or should we have a 5 min break so everyone can catch up? 18:36:43 gaudenz: read them 18:36:50 gaudenz: better, I have read them ;-) 18:36:53 * h01ger would like a 5min break 18:36:53 * zobel wants to thank for the very good mail from gaudenz on the -team list! 18:36:54 s/anyone/everyone/ how want's a short break? 18:36:56 Tomorrow we will have a metting to le camp. If you have question for le camp: please speak now 18:37:07 #info Short resume of the "Venue issues" is there http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120813.151847.45686429.en.html 18:37:12 what final time? 18:37:20 5min break now! 18:37:28 let's have a break. We start again at 18:48 . 18:37:38 okay, let's not be too swiss and start at 18:50 18:37:49 *snicker* 18:39:48 * h01ger giggles at the idea we should jsut do some minidebconfs worldwide 18:40:28 while we pause (and since this is sort-of in reply to that thread): I did as OdyX suggested, and looked at the clicky map, I only count 296 beds -- I presume there's a dorm missing from the map. 18:40:32 FTI The breakdown for those 296 beds is singles: 4 doubles: 21 triples: 1 quads: 6 5s/6s: 4 eights: 5 10s--28s: 9 18:40:56 I get 326 18:41:11 I'm preparing the wikipage with the table 18:41:29 http://whiteboard.debian.net/9d2779.wb the preview 18:41:39 cate: good -- it would be good to have hard info to talk about 18:42:05 fil: AFAIK cate's table is the hard info. 18:42:10 It even has one more bed. 18:42:32 the header is the number of beds per room 18:42:50 will be 327 coz we can have the bos room 18:42:51 cate: try to draft the contract like this: accomodation (f 18:43:10 i'm sorry but cate's "table" is unreadable 18:43:24 (flat fee) food (fix plus per meal cost) 18:43:36 cate: a question for tomorrow: acceptability of capmers (bedrooms-on-wheels) 18:43:41 32 beds in one room? 18:43:44 h01ger: probably ETOOSMALLSCREEN 18:43:53 when you go to le camp tomorrow, do you have some time so you can talk to nearby farmers or other landowners? 18:44:02 tadada, we haven't restarted the meeting. 18:44:05 we could try 18:44:12 gaudenz, rather correctly oriented. (1280x1900 ;) 18:44:18 Heiserhorn_, you should. please do! 18:44:49 h01ger: yes 18:45:22 Let's re-start the meeting. 18:45:57 OdyX, do you have a miniagenda for this? 18:46:28 and plan with daytrip (no food) + formal dinner and cheese&wine (no dinner) 18:46:29 Please #info your relevant informations first. 18:47:14 #action cate and fil work on a firm table of available beds and rooms to be put on the wiki 18:47:24 ^ correct me if I'm mistaken. 18:47:26 h01ger: How about trying to answer the questions I laid out in my mail? 18:47:31 I think the main issue is more beds vs price 18:48:05 At least to get an impression what people think about the different topics 18:48:14 To have definitive answers is probably too much. 18:48:19 I think it's relevant to mention that more people means more sponsoring to find. 18:48:29 although it might be a problem, I think "more beds" is possibly a distraction, as if the price was much lower I don't think we'd be worrying about that aspect so much 18:48:32 who says that all beds need to be sponsored? 18:48:40 OdyX: or less percentage of sponsored people 18:48:44 agreed. 18:48:50 zobel: getting people to pay the Swiss price for dorm rooms is going to be tricky 18:48:54 gaudenz, repeat your questtion here, please 18:49:16 zobel: so I expect a high proportion of accommodation sponsorship, since there is no better option people can pay for 18:49:19 What is the minimal amount of people we have to be able to accomodate in close proximity to the venue (walking distance)? 18:49:22 OdyX, less people probably means less sponsors as less people will be looking.. 18:49:24 in any case, free camping in Le Camp will not be possible as I understand it. We will at least have to pay the additional sanitary facilities Le Camp will have to provide. 18:49:39 moray: they pay for a smaller dorms (or free beds, and pay for the good food) 18:49:40 well, in Le Camp there might be the oprion of the big tent but I think is going to increase a lot the budget for beds 18:49:50 (also a small elite-debconf is less sponsorship worthy... what shall we do with sponsors which expect accom? flatly turn down? 18:50:02 #info close accomodations list is http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/AlternativeAccomodation 18:50:17 OdyX: I thought we agreed none were really close 18:50:22 #info that list has only expensive accom which needs a car 18:50:25 in numbers enough to be useful 18:50:27 h01ger: I don't think you can call a debconf bigger than every one since dc7 a small elite DC 18:50:40 * zobel thinks that 350 ppl at debconf13 is not an unrealistic number. i think it will be even higher. 18:51:02 h01ger: again, imagine that the campsite was $10,000 total, we wouldn't be worrying so much about the 325 limit, so I wonder if that part is a distraction 18:51:29 * XTaran agrees with zobel, especially when thinking about how many DDs may come with spouse and young children. 18:51:31 one option was to have a sort of a booking system to allow people to pick the "sponsored crappy room" for 0.- CHF or the "4-beds" room for x.- CHF and book all the beds until full. 18:52:08 I think (controversially) that (non-attendees) spouse and children at LeCamp is unrealistic _iff_ we expect more than 300 attendees. 18:52:09 XTaran: i don't think they need to get sponsored acc. 18:52:19 XTaran, zobel: Do you think this would be nice to have or a condition sine qua non? 18:52:21 zobel: Not sponsored, but they need beds 18:52:32 we can't at the same time say we want spouse and children and more DC people. 18:52:35 XTaran: thats true. 18:52:35 to ask: How many campers could we put in the parking. 18:52:38 gaudenz: Somewhere in between IMHO 18:52:41 XTaran: I don't see how significant numbers of these will work at Le Camp 18:52:55 OdyX, that sucks. "debconf for the rich" 18:53:00 how to politely deter people bringing their spouse? especially if the spouse contributes in some way? 18:53:08 moray: I don't get your point, sorry. 18:53:11 h01ger: I think that's a biased view. 18:53:18 cate: is not le camp parking is another one and I have to check the size tomorrow 18:53:27 OdyX, yeah. money changes everything. 18:53:32 moray: If a DD will come with his family, I don't think, he'll stay somewhere else than the rest of the family 18:53:51 The current parking is not too big, but how many campervans do you expect, I don't think many debconfers own one. 18:53:53 can we agree on a number of non-attendees beds ? 18:53:56 XTaran: but we don't have the appropriate setup to host lots of families, in Le Camp 18:54:01 like say 25 beds on the 325 ? 18:54:09 gaudenz, cate: Less than 10. 18:54:11 * gismo thinks that we need to discuss less and get questions for tomorrow 18:54:25 moray: That's the problem, yes. 18:54:26 * h01ger agrees with gismo 18:54:33 OdyX: prioritising between non-contributors is even more difficult an idea than prioritising contributors 18:54:36 so 18:54:39 they offered a big tent 18:54:41 moray: but it's needed. 18:54:48 how would/could that help us? 18:54:55 wrong. They mentionned the idea of a tent. 18:55:06 gismo, please also think about asking them for farmers etc nearby 18:55:13 OdyX, fine. with what purpose? 18:55:14 h01ger: let me put it differently: how many attendants would you like at 'Le Camp'? 18:55:23 I think there will be about 20 prof attendees who`d still prefer hotel accomodation even if they need a car. 18:55:26 h01ger: I just want to emphasize it's not granted yet, at all. 18:55:27 350-500 18:55:29 gaudenz, cate: When I drove through Le Camp I saw one camper squeezed between two trees in the woods. The parking slots are normal size, i.e. at maximum for my camper size (i.e. < 6m length) 18:55:32 h01ger: OK 18:55:35 h01ger: all sponsored? 18:55:40 (and the problem is indeed the range) 18:55:41 no 18:55:42 they said we can have a tent on the football field but they want it done by pros 18:55:50 please add questions here: 18:55:52 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120814 18:55:59 * zobel thinks we should think bigger. we still can downsize, if we see we have less attendees. 18:56:11 zobel: no we can't 18:56:19 but we should 18:56:20 some profesionals already expressed intend to use an other accomodation 18:56:23 zobel: not if we signed some agreement about it 18:56:23 be able to 18:56:24 If we decide to ditch le camp now, there is no going back later 18:56:34 thankfully we havent signed anything yet 18:56:41 zobel: if we decide to have the tent and than is empty we are going to pay a lot for nothin 18:56:44 (btw, we also need to discuss legal entity at some point...) 18:56:57 zobel: (not for yourself only, sorry) .ch is *EXPENSIVE*, 'Le Camp' is the more affordable solution 18:57:00 Heiserhorn_, thats why we need to be able to downsize 18:57:45 * h01ger scratches head 18:57:50 I think the easiest downsizing option is with nearby camping. 18:57:52 the tent should be in the contract with an agreed price, but a separate cancellation clause 18:58:01 gaudenz: agree 18:58:02 Heiserhorn: we don`t need to rent the tent now' we could keep it as an option. 18:58:10 but this needs investigation first, so no promise it will be possible at all. 18:58:11 gaudenz, aint that for upsizing? (or providing range) 18:58:16 or do we mean the same? 18:58:16 please use #info tags (everyone can) for relevant / summary points 18:58:17 vk3tqr: that sounds like good idea. 18:58:22 h01ger: the same 18:58:28 * h01ger nods 18:58:31 it's basically buying an option on a tent 18:58:36