17:54:49 #startmeeting DebConf IRC meeting, see the agenda http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20120821 17:54:49 Meeting started Tue Aug 21 17:54:49 2012 UTC. The chair is OdyX. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:54:49 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:55:04 Hi all. It's time. 17:55:13 hi 17:55:13 #topic Intro. 17:55:15 Say hi please 17:55:24 hi! 17:55:33 hi 17:55:39 hi and run 17:55:50 hi 17:55:55 hi 17:56:24 hi 17:56:34 moar pipole! 17:56:34 hi please 17:56:50 hi hi hi hi hi 17:56:51 :-) 17:57:08 any dc12 locals around? 17:57:10 I'm worried by the small number of unique hi's. 17:57:27 hola 17:57:30 hola 17:58:05 OdyX: learn to stop worrying and love the bConf! 17:58:21 minutes are produced 17:58:28 people can tune in later to the topics 17:58:47 okay.Let's go ahead. I want to keep the meeting under 1h, so please be concise and straight to the point when applicable. 17:59:02 #topic DC12 - Final report 17:59:28 xamanu: ping? (I think it was you coordinating it) 17:59:31 DC12 locals ? did the final report see some work ? 18:00:00 AFAIK people is working and we have a deadline by the end of sept 18:00:28 Does it need additional help/ work ? 18:01:13 OdyX: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/FinalReport looks like DayTrip writer is needed 18:01:42 hi 18:01:53 #info Final report needs more volunteers for Final Report: DayTrip someone ? 18:01:56 svn log seems to say only cheese and wine has been checked in. 18:02:02 everything is working and we should have the final report ready by the end of september 18:02:07 ok 18:02:12 n0rman: please ping people 18:02:15 #info Final Report on trail 18:02:18 #topic DC12 - Sponsors' letters-bags. 18:02:28 n0rman: seriously... I requested to be pinged, as I forget to allocate time to my parts 18:02:32 gwolf: ok, I will ping you :) 18:02:34 ping early, ping often 18:02:35 thanks! 18:02:56 OdyX: sponsors letters don't know, gismo and leogg are supposed to work on that? 18:03:21 okay. They're not here afaik, let's move on. 18:03:34 #info no update wrt sponsors' letters and bagd 18:03:51 #topic DC global - Infrastructure status 18:04:08 Ganneff: any news? 18:04:27 a new machine is supposed to be coming ... 18:04:34 #info new machine coming. 18:04:36 ^o^ 18:04:48 #info "mailing lists move" discussion is ongoing on debconf-team. 18:05:03 moar info ? 18:05:10 I think zobel's suggestion about using lists.d.o system but keeping lists.dc.o and some debconf listmasters joininig to debianlistsmaster is a good idea 18:05:24 * gaudenz agrees 18:05:25 yeah, same here. 18:05:30 seems good to me, too. 18:05:35 agree 18:05:38 But really, it depends mostly on the people currently in charge. 18:06:10 OdyX: you mean current lists.dc.o admins? 18:06:16 edrz: both sides. 18:06:17 #info meeting crowd agrees with zobel's analysis wrt lists.d.o and lists.dc.o. 18:06:19 OdyX: we just need to tell them :) 18:06:20 Some could send a "call for opposition" to the list 18:06:43 If nobody oppose within say a week it's decided. 18:06:44 more to discuss or can this continue on the mailing list ? 18:06:52 going directly for lists.d.o would give the lists mroe visibility 18:06:56 is mailing list the only thing that needs to be moved to debian servers? 18:07:08 ^ good point. 18:07:21 wiki ? 18:07:21 n0rman: I'd do this step by step 18:07:29 gaudenz: ok, just asking 18:07:30 lists may be a first step. 18:07:43 and they are quite disjunct sets of "stuff" 18:07:44 so, yes 18:07:59 better machine for wiki would be welcome, although it's already faster than it used to be. 18:08:17 .o(#info and #todo are free-for-all, just a reminder) 18:08:22 ok 18:08:23 #save 18:08:41 penta replacements? 18:08:50 yeah. i think so. 18:08:51 It's related but not actually on the agend: 18:08:52 a 18:09:03 it is 18:09:08 .... 18:09:08 localteam debconf-team list merge 18:09:13 no this was not 18:09:18 for dc13 18:09:29 hrm. 18:09:32 I think the crowd on the list so far is in favour of the merge 18:09:37 wait 18:09:39 #topic DC global Penta replacement 18:09:43 ^ it actually is 18:09:49 Ok... 18:09:54 and there's RT usage after that 18:09:54 I have done very little on this regard 18:10:06 #info Not much done yet for Penta replacements. 18:10:19 has anyone present looked at any other options, besides frab? 18:10:22 I got an account on gaudenz's machine - and I tested I could log in there. But to be honest, that's the extent of what I've been able to do so far 18:10:23 edrz: yes 18:10:33 edrz: the other runner-up that was discussed during DC12 was Zookeepr 18:10:40 right. 18:10:47 I'd really like someone to (get time to) test zookeepr 18:10:47 it's a Python thingy, don't remember the framework and such 18:10:55 dkg presented a briefing on it 18:10:58 pylons i think. 18:11:06 what does it need ? 18:11:13 ping someone (python packaging team ?) 18:11:14 time + volunteer. 18:11:24 right - but the thing is, even if progress with frab has been slow, it's been quicker than with zookeepr :) 18:11:35 right. 18:11:42 So, yes, whoever gets the first really good assessment (+configuration?) of an alternative wins, I guess... 18:11:49 heh. 18:11:54 ok. maybe we should move on? 18:12:01 yeah. 18:12:03 * gwolf would like to lose and leave it in $somebody's hands ;-) 18:12:07 but will try not to 18:12:10 haha 18:12:11 on 18:12:18 #todo "missing" needs to install and test and report and hack on zookeepr 18:12:28 #topic DC global - RT usage 18:12:32 * gaudenz would love to do that but has not enough time 18:12:32 what's the question there ? 18:12:39 .oO(Same here) 18:12:49 so, there was a question on the list about dealing with rt spam. 18:12:59 a few of us ... me + 2 others 18:13:06 have recently been given access. 18:13:19 i've deleted a bunch of spam earlier today. 18:13:32 o/ got access but didn't pay my visit to the orcs yet. 18:13:35 edrz: I think it's ok to just delete spam. 18:13:44 in fact we will love you if you take care of this. 18:13:49 the next question I had was for sponsors team. there are open tickets for dc12 18:13:52 #info Those with access should just _delete_spam_ when they see it. 18:13:53 that seem no longer relevant. 18:14:02 gaudenz: yeah. that's what i did. 18:14:35 after the spam is deleted it might actually be feasible to get an overview of what needs to be done. 18:14:58 edrz: are there things in "failure" mode there ? 18:15:02 so, wrt dc12 sponsorship tickets, i just wanted to know if i can mark them resolved if they seem to be. 18:15:03 before debconf I just gave up because of the amount of spam. 18:15:20 I mean: did we miss tickets or are we okay'ish with the current status? 18:15:31 edrz: I guess so if you are sufficently sure, but I'm as new to the process as you 18:15:38 gaudenz: ok 18:15:50 I guess a mail to the sponsors list in case of doubt should be enough. 18:15:52 OdyX: that's my question. i wasn't paying attention during dc12 sponsor gathering. 18:15:55 OdyX: yup. 18:15:58 someone around more familiar with this? 18:16:12 #action edrz mails sponsors team to get clarity on their tickets. 18:16:17 i think we can move on. 18:16:20 #info for rt.dc.o; what's obviously handled: close, what is in doubt, ask. 18:16:26 great thanks. 18:16:47 #topic DC13 - Report from the "LeCamp" visit last week. 18:16:51 ok 18:17:06 we can have tent if more than 300 people 18:17:21 but 10 chf per person 18:17:21 Heiserhorn: I think we don't need to repeat what's on the wiki page 18:17:26 ok 18:17:42 Heiserhorn: how much in advance do we need to tell LeCamp about the need for a tent ? 18:17:43 #info http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120814#Conclusions 18:17:44 so tomorro we will receive the contract 18:17:49 just ask for questions and if there are issues people think we should raise with le camp 18:17:49 amended ? 18:18:00 yes 18:18:05 right, no need to repeat everything 18:18:13 there was a question about the catering ... 18:18:14 * gwolf cheers for the meeting you had last week 18:18:15 it went already back and forth a couple of time 18:18:21 thanks 18:18:34 no catering possible 18:18:35 is a clean up team needed for each meal? 18:18:40 yes 18:18:42 #info Heiserhorn has done a great job in communicating with LeCamp's staff. 18:18:47 I read quickly the contract and I have a question about food: can we 'cook' ourselves during debcamp? (as it is allowed?) 18:18:55 ana: no 18:19:18 is it possible to have the contract in english? or is it in english already? 18:19:32 Heiserhorn: not at all? 18:19:37 we thought of asking during registration to be part of the cleaning team once or twice 18:19:38 n0rman: it is in French 18:19:45 edrz: we (locals) knew that for a long time I think and raw calculations show that if every attendee washes dishes 1-2 times during the whole week then it's okay. 18:19:48 n0rman: no 18:19:48 It feels strange, given Le Camp advertises the good level of its kitchen facilities :-/ 18:19:58 French only 18:20:03 gwolf: we can have them do that if we pay. 18:20:14 but I can translate it for our use 18:20:24 (they can danse samba naked if we pay enough I'd say) 18:20:25 Heiserhorn: it would be appreciate :) 18:20:38 n0rman: will do 18:20:39 gwolf: nods 18:20:41 come on, lets wash our stuff, it doesn't hurt 18:20:42 OdyX: ok, that explains a bit better :) But I guess paying for using the kitchens would be almost as expensive as paying them for fully cooked food 18:20:53 #info Clean-up team needed for every meal. 18:21:08 * OdyX nods tiago. 18:21:10 I do not expect *everybody* to be happy to do dishes - We will have to work as always, based on volunteering 18:21:14 they rent kitchens for small groups 18:21:37 Washing dishes for 300 people is not a trivial task 18:21:44 imho: we should ask people to wash their stuff and then make a team for putting the stuff in its place later 18:21:45 gwolf: it will bepretty easy with professional dishwashers 18:21:53 #info self-cooking is not allowed at all during DebCamp and DebConf. 18:21:56 (and check everything is properly clean) 18:22:02 Heiserhorn: I worked in the dining room of a kibbutz, so I know professional dishwashers :) 18:22:08 ana++ 18:22:18 ana: I think we can use their hotel style machines, so no self washing 18:22:19 ana: it is easyer to put everything in the big professional dishwasher 18:22:25 ana-- : I think mass-washing is more efficient. 18:22:32 certainly 18:22:33 ok, then ask people to put the stuff in the dishwasher =) 18:22:33 anyway; details later. 18:22:38 right. 18:22:44 OdyX: exactly 18:22:47 anyway, I'll stop bikeshedding 18:22:48 more things unclear 'bout the contract ? 18:23:09 #save 18:23:31 (for latecomers, minutes are: http://meetbot.debian.net/debconf-team/2012/debconf-team.2012-08-21-17.54.html ) 18:24:06 I haven't had a chance to read it as it was on the private svn. 18:24:17 but I'm quite confident in Heiserhorn 'nyway. 18:24:26 Heiserhorn: okay, go sign it! :-) 18:24:31 ^^ 18:24:54 OdyX: no, no individual should sign it 18:25:19 they asked at least 2 people present at the meeting to sign 18:25:28 another question about the food: what's happen with the day trip? 18:25:30 #info contract should be signed by the legal umbrella that will handle DebConf money, with at least two representatives. 18:25:33 before the end of the month 18:25:41 10 days remaining, f*** 18:25:49 Heiserhorn: I think during the meeting we agreed about end of september. 18:25:56 Did they change that? 18:25:59 #info contract should be signed before end of the (next ?) month. 18:26:00 if day trip 18:26:06 no food payed 18:26:51 but we can ask for carry-on lunches, right ? 18:27:04 gaudenz: that just a king of acknowledgement not a real signature. but I will try to delay untill next meeting with all of yoou 18:27:11 packed lunches, you mean? sandwiches etc? 18:27:11 OdyX: yes 18:27:14 and food for the people not goign to the day trip? 18:27:20 #info if people eat outside LeCamp for DayTrip, then no food is to be paid for them. 18:27:21 ana: yes 18:27:39 #info LeCamp can provide carry-on lunches if wanted/needed, obviously for-pay. 18:27:43 [The day trip is still something undecided but food is expensive so avoiding waste one single day is important!] 18:27:52 nattie: yeah, packed lunch. 18:28:08 ana: food is cheaper in LeCamp than (almost) anywhere else. 18:28:27 (i like the expression "carry-on lunch" though :)) 18:28:41 that's fr_CH_EN, sorry. 18:28:52 ^^ 18:28:59 more things about the contract ? 18:29:10 it's sweet, it reminds me of the 90s when you could actually get fed on an aeroplane 18:29:13 we've run over a half hour already, pace is good. 18:29:23 I move on 18:29:30 #topic DC13 - Legal umbrella 18:29:46 #info http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120518#Matrix_DebConf13_and_debian.ch 18:29:56 is it possile to decide before the next in person meeting 18:29:59 rule one: not DIVA... 18:30:06 ^ Most arguments are there, go read them if you haven't them. 18:30:25 nattie: care to expand the argument ? I have no clue what DIVA is besides "bosnia" and "mess" 18:31:06 OdyX: i was just being flip 18:31:25 how difficult would it be to set up the debconf13 association in .ch? 18:31:44 nattie: a matter of having bylaws and a meeting, minimum 3 persons. 18:31:49 nattie: then a meeting every year. 18:32:01 pretty easy 18:32:06 * gwolf has to disappear for some minutes 18:32:15 back soon 18:32:21 As I proposed in the agenda I think this is merely a localteam issue. 18:32:30 * OdyX nods 18:32:37 presumably the association would be dissolved once everything is finished, and assets transfered to $followingdebconf/debian/debian.ch? 18:32:43 What the whole team concerns is if there are any conditions we have to meet 18:32:57 to be accepted as legal dc13 organizer 18:33:09 nattie: exactly 18:33:09 #info This is mostly localteam matter, what matters is the DebConf team's conditions. 18:33:43 nattie: in short, the bylaws can set preferable final destination for money but ultimately the members crowd decides. 18:33:44 if debian.ch exists, why you need to create another organization? 18:33:51 n0rman: tax reasons, i think 18:34:04 n0rman: have you had a look at the decision matrix? 18:34:08 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/minutes-20120518#Matrix_DebConf13_and_debian.ch 18:34:13 n0rman: tax reasons, risk put on debian.ch and non-overlapping set of members 18:34:22 well; overlapping but not identical. 18:34:42 there are even draft bylaws for a hypothetical new association: 18:34:47 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Bylaws 18:34:57 #info draft bylaws: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Bylaws 18:35:10 creating a new association permits having the people doing the job being the one constituting the legal body taking decisions 18:35:25 can we vote before the meeting and then if we decide to create a new one do it on the meeting 18:35:26 ? 18:35:57 I'd propose to have a new mail thread as moray, h01ger are not here now and gwolf is away currently. 18:36:02 i'm in favour of having the new association, so long as it's concretely defined as being of a limited, fixed duration 18:36:23 OdyX: do you have time to take care of this? 18:36:48 gaudenz: I'm away from 23. to 27. but besides that, yes. 18:37:04 ok 18:37:17 If that can wait for the 28. I can handle that. 18:37:42 OdyX: If you could start the thread before it would be appriciated, otherwise I can do it. 18:38:12 #todo OdyX starts the "legal umbrella" mail thread. If not done before 23., gaudenz takes over. 18:38:22 More things about this ? 18:38:45 Does anyone have an example of an agreement 18:38:57 between debconf/debian and the dcxx legal organizaiton 18:39:08 I think such a "contract" was signed in the past 18:39:19 gaudenz: is in the wiki.... let me check.. 18:39:23 #info Missing piece is example agreements between "global team" and "local legal representatives". 18:39:50 OdyX: other than that, no 18:40:10 gaudenz: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Debian-ISIC-agreement this was the contract we signed for DC12 18:40:20 * gwolf +- reads 18:40:23 backlog 18:40:24 #info [20:46] gaudenz: http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/Debian-ISIC-agreement this was the contract we signed for DC12 18:40:33 okay. Moving on. 18:40:35 #topic DC13 - Sponsoring brochure 18:40:47 I want to have people take a look at it, it's kinda nice now. 18:40:57 OdyX: checking.. 18:40:58 I think we had already discussed about this new organization... ok, moving on :) 18:42:04 compiled english brochure : http://azrael.raboud.homelinux.org/~didier/DC13_brochure.en.pdf 18:42:33 all vector-based: logo, shade. with pdf structure and links. 18:42:45 * OdyX is quite proud of the latex code in there. 18:43:18 it is very cool 18:43:32 OdyX: Owo. 18:43:35 I mean, Wow 18:43:38 it is VERY nice indeed! 18:43:45 IMO there are 2 remaining issues: 18:43:47 that said, topic is more "sponsoring levels" than "glory to OdyX" 18:43:54 beatiful =) 18:43:55 1) decide about sponsorship levels 18:44:10 2) budget (hug promised to do that but did not so far) 18:44:11 .oO(all that in po4a-translatable LaTeX 18:44:36 gaudenz: right - About 1), there were several ideas pulling to different sides in the list 18:44:49 actually, I think a budget including proposed levels repartition should come before sponsoring levels 18:44:50 very nice, simple, elegant, classy! 18:45:10 credit where credit is due: logo and layout are leogg's 18:45:23 gaudenz: and about 2), what is there needed as budget? The last page does show a better summary than any other brochure I remember seeing - it shows the level of some of our salient expenses 18:46:12 gwolf: I think the actual numbers are not based on current information 18:46:19 wymb levels repartition is a (private) list of prospective sponsors like "platinum hopes": 4 hopes, "it works" with 2, minimum is 1 18:46:26 and I'd like to have this in tabulated form. 18:47:00 and I'd like to at least show an idea about how we are trying to get these 215'000 18:47:11 that with names: e.g we hope 25'000 from Migros, Lausanne and hands.com, 1000 from Coop, Vinea and progress-linux, etc 18:47:40 yay for progess-linux !! 18:47:44 gaudenz: oh, so that's important to be sure of :) 18:48:02 the biggest problem is that the brochure should go out soon, with levels. 18:48:06 fil: platinum?! Wow! 18:48:27 .o(awww, that was an example :-> ) 18:48:30 great brochure 18:48:33 I think here we should only discuss the levels 18:48:36 'nyway, 6 minutes remaining. 18:48:49 the missing budget is more a problem of work not yet done 18:49:14 I'm fine with the currently proposed levels. 18:49:17 okay for the levels I think 25k is a little low. 18:49:20 we know the prices for food and accomodation 18:49:35 OdyX: me too 18:49:50 Other thought it's too high already... 18:49:59 * gaudenz is unsure, don't know 18:50:00 I'm fine with the numbers in general 18:50:03 I think putting 25k for platinum will lead to corporations say "oah, platinum is not for me, there certainly is HP there already, I will pay less. 18:50:35 I don't know if 25 is too low - we *want* them to pay platinum. And very few companies have given 25K! 18:50:48 putting it too much higher leads to "no platinum sponsor" of course. 18:51:01 better to have one than none 18:51:08 nattie: agreed 18:51:13 yeah true. 18:51:21 true 18:51:32 and 25000 is a nice round figure 18:51:41 We could ask RLLM about the levels 18:51:53 and the feeback I got from a TEDx organiser (for a TEDx in Switzerland) was a "mostly okayish, wouldn't go higher" to be fully honest. 18:52:02 gaudenz: I like that idea. 18:52:13 RLLM==? 18:52:25 gwolf: i was afraid to ask ;) 18:52:26 gwolf: Rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre 18:52:33 big free software conference that took place in geneva this summer 18:52:35 oh, it's in French :) 18:52:36 gwolf: happened last summer, 3k attendees. 18:52:45 that's quite big 18:52:47 does it worth including a picture in the brochure? I like the 'human side' on asking for sponsor 18:52:54 good. It's a very different conference, but they can probably have a good overview. 18:53:02 tiago: about the location? 18:53:03 tiago: group picture ? 18:53:11 i though about group pic 18:53:16 #info idea about the sponsoring brochure: add moar pictures! 18:53:19 or a full room 18:53:22 My hope is that they know how much an average swiss company is willing to give 18:53:37 * gaudenz likes more pictures 18:53:38 we're running out of time. 18:53:57 we can continue informal discussion after the meeting, anyway 18:53:57 feel free to amend the brochure, it's latex afterall :-) 18:53:58 I don't have any contact at RLLM... 18:54:08 so sponsoring levels are more or less ok excepted platinum? 18:54:09 gaudenz: I have some and gismo has some too. 18:54:27 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiagovaz/3788741958/) 18:54:30 so I propose gismo asks 18:54:39 he is already working on the levels 18:54:42 #action OdyX takes contact with RMLL organisers to get feedback from them wrt sponsoring levels; checks with gismo. 18:54:51 good 18:55:07 I can work with hug on the budget 18:55:24 gaudenz: #todo or #action yourself then :-> 18:55:46 #action gaudenz coordinates with hug and raphw to get a budget for the sponsorship brochure 18:55:59 great, thanks. 18:56:07 #topic Next meeting 18:56:25 #info localteam has physical meeting on 5. in Bern 18:56:41 the wiki mentions about the rhythm we want to take 18:56:46 let's try to include the hundreds of australians and japanese who want to help us organise this 18:56:49 I would *not* go to less than once a month 18:56:56 * gaudenz agrees 18:56:57 even if the meeting is short 18:57:07 agreed. that's too much for now. 18:57:07 once a fortnight? 18:57:12 I think more 1h meetings is better than few big meetings 18:57:25 ah, I didn't agree then. .-) 18:57:30 ramping up to once a week as it approaches? 18:57:33 every week is too rapid. 18:57:33 fine for me 18:57:40 every month is good IMHO. 18:57:52 OdyX: tous les quinze jours? 18:58:03 :) 18:58:09 nattie: ¿todos los días quince? 18:58:15 nattie: that is once a month 18:58:20 but on varying weekday 18:58:21 I was thinking about a rotating scheme like every 22 days 18:58:27 gwolf: that's "every 15 days" in french 18:58:28 gwolf: all the day of quinces! so only when they're on the trees 18:58:33 or you're eating quince cheese 18:58:34 so it's always on another day of the week 18:58:43 * gwolf cries in despair 18:58:48 every 15 days would do the same 18:58:50 ^^ 18:58:55 gaudenz: suprising idea but awful for planning 18:59:00