18:00:59 #startmeeting 18:00:59 Meeting started Mon Oct 22 18:00:59 2012 UTC. The chair is gwolf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:59 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:00 MeetBot: #startmeeting 18:01:00 gaudenz: Error: "#startmeeting" is not a valid command. 18:01:05 #chair gaudenz 18:01:05 Current chairs: gaudenz gwolf 18:01:22 MeetBot: pingall meeting now! 18:01:22 meeting now! 18:01:22 amaya ana AndrewLee bdale blarson brother- bubulle carnil Caroll cate Clint cpt_nemo dachenka dam darst dkg DrDub durarara edrz FBI fil fx Ganneff gaudenz gismo gnugr gregoa gwolf h01ger heiserhorn hug jeremyb jimbodoors jvw Kaare lazyb0y leogg lilix lucas 18:01:22 MadameZou madduck mangoderosa marga maxy MeetBot moray msantana n0rman nattie nomada nomadium OdyX paravoid paulproteus pocock rafw rmayorga schultmc schultmc_ sgran simonft Sledge taffit tatotat tiago Tincho tokkee wendar xamanu XTaran 18:01:22 meeting now! 18:01:41 If nobody oposes I can chair the meeting. 18:01:46 go 18:01:49 gaudenz: I'll deeply thank you for it :) 18:02:00 #info Everyone can use #info tags. Meeting agenda is on http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20121022 , please be concise and stay on-topic as defined by the chair. 18:02:04 The left half of my brain has to continue working on otherstuff 18:02:07 agenda is at http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20121022 18:02:23 Please read things from http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf13/Meetings/20121022#Meeting_preparation_material if you didn't already read them from the list/IRC 18:02:27 please all have a short look at the agenda. 18:02:47 we'll start in 5 minutes, to allow for latecomers and to allow everyone to catch up 18:02:58 and to allow me finish my lasagne 18:03:02 haha 18:03:12 #topic Read the Agenda, Meeting at 20:08 18:03:37 i thought the topic was lasagne 18:03:58 I only have pasta with Brussels sprouts. 18:04:21 If you attend the meeting please say hi, so we know you are here even if just listening. 18:04:28 hi 18:04:33 hi 18:04:34 if anyone doesn't have access to debconf-team and needs the budget pdfs, pm me... 18:04:37 hi 18:05:17 g'day 18:05:24 hi ther 18:05:28 Moin. 18:05:37 băăă 18:05:38 hey 18:05:39 any dc12 locals around? 18:05:42 hello 18:05:43 g/evening 18:06:01 sort of hi 18:06:16 Hello 18:06:25 hi 18:07:10 ok 5 minutes are over 18:07:17 #topic Introduction 18:07:30 I can write the summary and link to the meetbot logs 18:07:57 We already had the presence roundtable, so if everyone agrees to the agenda we can move on. 18:08:00 kthanks ! 18:08:02 any objections? 18:08:29 #topic DebConf12 - Final report 18:08:37 Anyone around that knows the status? 18:08:59 I kinda worked on getting it nicer, but otherwise dunno. 18:09:02 xamanu: ping? 18:09:36 nobody around it seems. 18:09:39 OdyX: if you had an overview of it already, do you know what parts still need to be written? 18:09:42 http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/FinalReport 18:10:18 Who is going to contact xamanu or whoever is responsible for this? 18:10:21 most parts are claimed (except for the credits and photos) 18:10:24 to get a status update... 18:10:27 gaudenz: I will contact them 18:10:47 #agreed gwolf contacts the dc12 locals and asks about the final report status 18:10:57 .oO(#todo :>) 18:11:04 gwolf: no, not really sorry. 18:11:15 #todo gwolf will also make a relation on the texts that need writing 18:11:16 #topic DebConf 12 - Sponsor bags 18:11:20 #todo ...and contact the prospective authors 18:11:22 Are the bags all sent? 18:11:53 AFAIK we are missing one 18:12:08 which actually we discovered via the thanks-letter (all sent, BTW) 18:12:08 locals' ve been pinged without success afaik 18:12:09 missing in which sense? not sent or not received? 18:12:14 not received. 18:12:19 we know that at least one was not received 18:12:21 OdyX: we do not know 18:12:29 we don't know how many, if any, weren't sent 18:12:48 gismo: it's at least not received, we don't know if it was sent. :) 18:12:49 Do we need to track this as debconf-team? 18:12:57 not imho 18:13:02 Or can we just declare this done on a best effort base? 18:13:18 maybe delegate to someone to handle that. 18:13:23 gaudenz: I will follow on for the not-received bag, there is my name on the email 18:13:34 gismo: thanks 18:13:38 (if you want to ask for money to these sponsors, better send them a bag too) 18:13:41 #todo gismo follows up on the not-received bag. 18:13:58 #topic DebConf 13 - Budget 18:14:10 hug: this is your turn 18:14:21 Ok, budget is in svn. I hope everyone found it 18:14:28 the two of them ? 18:14:30 As you can see in the agenda I propose to move the discussion point to the list. 18:14:31 Yes 18:14:48 so, I'll quickly go through the main points 18:14:53 LeCamp 18:14:55 hug: do you hava a link 18:15:03 .oO(borders in the PDF would be cool) 18:15:06 gaudenz: see wiki 18:15:06 right, otherwise it can make the meeting an unsolvable knot again :-/ 18:15:23 total expenses: 220k 18:15:30 which includes 30k travel sponsorship 18:15:35 and assumes we only pay for the meals consumed 18:15:38 gwolf: yes, though I'm not sure a list discussion will reach any conclusion easily 18:15:45 which is a -20k 18:16:04 on the expenses side 18:16:13 we assumed that we'll get 100k from sponsors 18:16:24 and need to get the rest from attendees 18:16:42 e.g. professional fees, attendance fees, food paid by attendee, bed upselling... 18:16:45 all numbers are in CHF, right? 18:16:45 hug: with a >200K budget, I don't think we have to consider travel sponsorship - In the event we get enough money to pay for it, it will be nice... 18:16:56 cate: right 18:16:59 gwolf: yes 18:17:05 it is about 300 or 400 CHF per person 18:17:12 that's why the budget has a deficit of about 20k 18:17:17 so it's even without the travel sponsorship 18:17:46 So, first thing: do we want debconf13 to pay for travel sponsorship? 18:17:56 or do we want debian to pay for it? 18:18:03 hug: debconf13 is debian is debconf 18:18:04 discussion :) 18:18:12 is it better to ask what is most important? 18:18:27 hug: I'd just ignore travel sponsorship for now 18:18:27 I know, but should it be within the budget 18:18:27 e.g. is travel sponsorship more important than 3 meals/day, or vice versa? 18:18:34 I don't think we can count on it existing 18:18:35 I don't think a discussion on IRC is usefull atm 18:18:38 ok 18:18:43 waiting to promise sponsorship until it's sure it'll be covered by sponsorships seems reasonable 18:18:47 We should first explore and discuss the options on list 18:19:02 we are now way at a point where we can take informed decisions. 18:19:22 wendar: +1 18:19:25 maybe we can't set priorities during the meeting, but I would propose the action item is to have priorities before the next meeting 18:19:38 gaudenz: there are too many points that need to be settled - i.e. the attendee fee. I don't think there is consensus over it. 18:19:46 but we need to discuss how we want to raise the 100k from attendees 18:19:55 It is counterintuitive for me to invent an attendee fee and mention travel sponsorship at the same time. 18:19:59 yeah, the "accept or rule out" discussion looks good to me. 18:20:02 gwolf: agreed, that's why I think that list discussion is more appropriate 18:20:04 I do not see we will raise 100k from attendees. 18:20:13 * Sledge agrees with gwolf 18:20:18 I do not even see we agreed on such fee (I disagree) 18:20:20 Yes, it seems unrealistic for anything recognisable as DebConf. 18:20:23 * ana agrees too 18:20:34 so we went into the "accept or rule out" discussion. 18:20:55 * nattie concurs 18:21:12 do we move that to list ' 18:21:18 ...so we are back to the position of the last meeting :-| 18:21:25 I propose that someone writes a mail with the different options beside sponsorship we have to reduce costs or raise more money. 18:21:30 (otherwise we do the proposed quick opinion-gathering that has already started) 18:21:33 And we then discuss these options on list first. 18:22:05 We can collect the options now, most of them are already in the wiki on the agenda page though. 18:22:11 Any additional ideas? 18:22:17 OdyX: the point above is more general than the ones in the agenda, whether it's realistic to get that much money at all 18:22:28 well, we can do a hands count - but it obviously excludes people not present at the meeting 18:22:33 and it also kills any arguments 18:23:16 okay, I can agree that we can't get 100k. So what now ? 18:23:17 moray: I think the answer to the question if it's feasible at all follows in part from what options we consider 18:23:53 maybe after all it's not 100k anymore because we say that we won't provide any food (just an example, not my opinion) 18:24:04 exactly 18:24:14 gaudenz: maybe we should discuss a shorter DebConf 18:24:20 if we don't agree on getting the money from attendees we need to reduce cost (e.g. dropping debcamp) 18:24:23 or vegetarian food is free, pay for meat and alcohol? 18:24:24 so we have to decide what we need to provide 18:24:31 gaudenz: but we know that at Le Camp we will *have* to organise food centrally 18:24:35 gwolf: thanks, that option is missing in the current list 18:24:45 "Accept or rule out reducing overall length of DebCamp+main DebConf? " 18:24:54 ^ 18:25:00 looks like it 18:25:15 once again, instead of discussing each option separately, should we number them, e.g. is travel sponsorship more important than DebCamp? 18:25:20 * Sledge has to run, back in a few minutes 18:25:26 I can initiate the mailinglist discussion by writing a short paragraph about each option. 18:25:46 Do people prefer individual threads per option or one giant thread? 18:25:53 individual threads 18:25:57 yes 18:26:00 (easier to blacklist :p) 18:26:01 /methinks we could have a mini-GR with those options. It satisfies almost all for the procedure 18:26:16 difficult to maintain individual threads 18:26:17 gwolf: I'm not sure that really helps 18:26:26 no, but we could have it anyway 18:26:29 gwolf: and in the end, not everyone is equally responsible for approving the money spending 18:26:30 individual threads++ 18:26:35 (sigh) 18:26:39 right. 18:26:44 * gaudenz in principle agrees with gwolfs idea, but fears the practical problems... 18:26:45 sorry for the noise. 18:26:51 At OSCON, we found that sponsors often responded positively to donations for a particular cause. We might find we get a good response for something like "Sponsor 1 day fo DebCamp for X donation" 18:27:02 gaudenz: no, I was just sarcastic or something like that 18:27:04 weighted GR ftw ! 18:27:06 or "Lunch for Tuesday" 18:27:15 gaudenz: we really need to talk this at length on list... 18:27:20 that's a next point. 18:27:31 gwolf: we usually talk at lenght before GRs too ;-) 18:27:42 having a GR involves talking first... 18:28:19 Ok, but we should not assume we are walking towards a vote - We are walking towards consensus. Hopefully. 18:28:19 #todo gaudenz to initiate mailinglist threads about cost-cutting / financing options 18:28:26 towards a solution. 18:28:39 can we move to the next topic? 18:29:04 * OdyX nods 18:29:08 #topic DebConf 13 - Sponsorship 18:29:26 what's the status with the brocure? is the english text final? 18:29:29 wendar: good point, but that's fundraising, not budget :) 18:29:40 gaudenz: it was waiting comments for the last modifications at 18:29:49 DrDub: aye, and I nearly delayed the comment to the next topic 18:29:54 gaudenz: En proofreading is fine, only levels/benefits (again) 18:30:01 does anyone want to submit a comment and did not do so yet? 18:30:46 DrDub: but, if we're talking about cutting conference features for lack of funding, it's worth at least offering sponsors the chance of helping 18:30:51 I would just declare this done for now 18:31:00 We can always improve it later 18:31:01 yes. Brochure is ready to go out. 18:31:07 I've started french translation 18:31:08 * gwolf just received a user - away for some minutes. 18:31:21 #agreed Brochure in english is ready 18:31:26 #save 18:31:39 wendar: good point 18:32:00 next we should organize a sponsorship team meeting. 18:32:04 any takers? 18:32:11 yes 18:32:18 (that was quick - Back to meeeting!) 18:32:23 rafw: you? 18:33:04 gaudenz: yes, I will try to coordinate the sponsorship team meeting. 18:33:07 IRC meeting soonish ? 18:33:20 OdyX: why not RL meeting this week-end? 18:33:27 rafw: thanks, are you also thinking of this as an IRC meeting? 18:33:45 I think we should try to involve non-locals who worked on this in the last years. 18:33:57 gismo: ah, yeah. Part-ACK as we need non-locals to get involved for non-swiss sponsors 18:34:07 And not all of them are regularly reading debconf-team. 18:34:16 Is there a sponsorship mailinglist? 18:34:19 If you want a chance of raising any significant proportion of your proposed budget, then involve non-locals with experience, yes. 18:34:20 but maybe it can be a hybrid meeting while at DebCamp, having some people over IRC? 18:34:21 hi. sorry i'm late. was alone with my boy had to get him to bed. 18:34:26 maybe streaming audio or so? 18:34:27 gaudenz: yes, debconf-sponsors-team@lists.debconf.org 18:34:40 sorry, while at BSP 18:34:41 gwolf: good idea 18:34:43 but I think we could discuss the tools this week-end and somewhat-impose our choice to non-locals if decided. 18:35:02 I like the idea of having the meeting during the next week-end 18:35:07 OdyX: IMHO there is no tool discussion, resources are well-known 18:35:09 me too 18:35:31 gismo: I'm not the one wanting to use new ones, just sayin' it's an opened topic. 18:35:40 Do we decide now for the date ? I propose this satuday around 18h UTC. 18:35:44 #todo rafw to organize a real-life / virtaul sponsorship team meeting, announcement to be sent to debconf-team and debconf-sponsors-team@lists.debconf.org 18:35:59 gaudenz: ok 18:36:03 doesn't work for me. Sunday 11h works better, but I'm replaceable. 18:36:43 #topic DebConf 13 - Venue options update - Le Camp 18:36:53 heiserhorn: ping 18:36:59 or gismo 18:37:22 nothing new 18:37:29 mr pianaro will be back tomorrow 18:37:39 is there a formal meeting with him at the BSP? 18:37:41 will he be there at the BSP ? 18:37:43 I will propose him to shorten 2-3 days 18:37:58 OdyX, pocock: we do not know 18:38:02 which in 30k chf less on budget 18:38:16 pocock: no formal meeting 18:38:27 I was not sure who is now in charge, gismo or heiserhorn 18:38:47 at some point gismo said he is going to talk to le camp 18:38:50 right now I have no time to move during the week 18:38:57 gaudenz: I was replacing heiserhorn because he was busy, but he can take the ball back 18:38:58 so gismo is going 18:39:12 the existing problems of LeCamp are: bad availability of alternative hosting; all-or-nothing type of contract and general expensiveness, right ? 18:39:17 As long as you two are talking to each other this is not a problem. 18:39:26 this was just not visible from the outside. 18:39:31 gaudenz: we are :-) 18:39:37 OdyX: 18:39:38 OdyX: food full-board for everyone even if meals no used 18:39:52 this will not change 18:40:01 hug: … based on announced numbers still, right? 18:40:06 right 18:40:09 based on accomodation 18:40:13 ? 18:40:14 OdyX: no, no general expensiveness, prices are good. I would add the minimum of 200 per day as a problem 18:40:21 actually, I wanted to go last week, but Mr. Pianaro was not there, so I do not think it is useful to go on Thursday to be there again on Saturday 18:40:37 heiserhorn: you and gismo seem to have different opinions on this, I understood that gismo still has some hopes to changes 18:40:38 and change bad availability of alternative hosting for bad to have around 'civilization' 18:40:40 I am not sure he will be there on saturday 18:40:41 ana: you got it wrong: 200 per day on average (and this is the only comment from me) 18:40:53 ana: the overall budget somehow seems very high compared to how much we have managed to raise the last few years 18:40:59 gismo: wrongly worded sorry, it changes nothing 18:41:27 moray: for an average of 200 chf in switzerland is hard to find less expensive 18:41:29 ana: so I'm not sure about "prices are good" even if there may be no cheaper option 18:41:51 moray: without expanding much the argument, for hosting+food+venue you won't get cheaper (at least not by more than 10% IMHO) 18:41:52 *200 people 18:41:59 (here we go again into the neverending circle) 18:42:04 gaudenz: heiserhorn and myself share our views, I am probably more diplomatic 18:42:26 gismo: thanx :-) 18:42:31 gismo: thanks 18:42:34 can we conclude that the prices are good for switzerland but expensive for what we can afford? (based on money we raised in previous years) 18:42:43 heiserhorn: to repeat something said before the meeting, we need a budget that is possible, before anything else 18:42:54 as there is nothing new from le camp, I propose to move on. 18:43:01 ack 18:43:02 ana: that would mean having a shorter event, asking people to contribute cash, or not going to CH 18:43:06 We have to wait for what heiserhorn and gismo manage to get 18:43:13 for once, I agree with pocock. 18:43:28 I'm fan of the shorter event option 18:43:28 #topic DebConf 13 - Venue options update - Interlaken 18:43:29 moray: I agree but for 2 week, with 200 people in average that's the price..if we want less we have to shorten 18:43:34 ana: I am not, FWIW 18:43:47 OdyX: I agree too 18:43:48 pocock: your turn 18:43:56 I went there last Monday 18:44:12 heiserhorn: shortening is one option that might help find a budget that is more plausible, sure 18:44:13 I spent about 2.5 hours at Balmer's. 18:44:26 I looked around the hostel but not the tent city yet 18:44:43 I showed them the slides (partner prospectus in SVN) 18:44:51 I also think we should consider shortening more strongly 18:44:52 and they came back to use with the quote (also in SVN now) 18:45:13 gwolf: agree 18:45:15 Balmer's also gave us a lot of suggestions about local contacts (e.g. the Jungfrau Park) 18:46:03 pocock: FTR, Balmer's request of exclusivity is a no-op for me 18:46:19 gismo: it is only for booking of excursions through our web site 18:46:40 and it is only the first proposal, there is opportunity to negotiate on Friday 18:46:43 pocock: Does that mean the daytrip? 18:46:48 no 18:46:51 pocock: exactly, *our* website, not theirs (and please also read it carefully, they ask for ads & Co. wherever there is space) 18:46:56 As I understand it, it just means that we don't promote other companies providing the same services (adventure tours mainly) 18:47:05 gaudenz: exactly 18:47:14 we can still have other sponsors and logos on the web site 18:47:23 gismo: I agree that their advertising requirement is quite to the limit 18:47:45 they give us a 20% discount (and 50% discount on their marquee) 18:47:47 But I guess what this exactly means is up for negotation. I would not put too much weight on this at this stage 18:47:50 FWIW last year UCA was acknowledged as a Platinum sponsor because they offered us a very reduced price based on their usual 18:48:09 (We were somewhat forced to accept that status - but that could be seen as sponsorship) 18:48:19 exactly 18:48:33 will any local business give us the same amount of money (20% of accommodation) in cash sponsorship? 18:48:38 any questions about the interlaken proposal? 18:48:46 But we should forbid alternate sites on our wiki 18:48:53 two questions: 18:48:58 too early to compare we should wait friday meeting 18:48:59 1) who else can come Friday? 18:49:12 I'll come 18:49:17 cate: or mark a clear distinction between "our site" (the official DC13 site) and "DebConf's historical and future and prospective things" 18:49:20 ok se we move to that point, this was the next agenda item 18:49:23 and make it clear to them. 18:49:27 I will come as well 18:49:31 2) given the budget fears, are we still doing this in CH? If not, then there is no point investigating Interlaken 18:49:36 gwolf: indeed 18:49:41 I'll come too. The meeting I originally had was canceld today, so I'm free. 18:49:49 (we're getting close to 1h of meeting) 18:49:49 pocock: We are either holding DC13 in Switzerland or cancelling it altogether, I think 18:49:58 I'm glad you all go, I can "not go" then :) 18:50:13 pocock: we are not in a position to search for new venues (and expect them to be pricewise better than what we have) 18:50:30 gwolf: a Mini-DebConf is feasible nevertheless 18:50:30 Can we finish the friday meeting point first please 18:50:39 gwolf: Interlaken is only a little bit cheaper than Le Camp. We won't find any significantly cheaper venue in CH 18:50:49 the only benefit of Interlaken is flexibility 18:51:04 For friday we have gaudenz, h01ger, hug and pocock, right? 18:51:05 pocock: interlaken has the advantage of providing accomodation-only 18:51:15 gaudenz: +rafw 18:51:16 gaudenz: and me. 18:51:17 if we don't have enough cash for food, we just don't pay for it, and people will pay for their own food (instead of paying a registration fee) 18:51:20 pocock: But the flexibility makes it easier to be accommodation-only, find-your-own-food for some people, etc. 18:51:31 So can be budget-reducing. 18:51:33 right, flexibility is important. 18:51:52 it may be 10% or 20% cheaper if we negotiate well 18:51:59 pocock: I think traffic connections are way better in Interlaken and I do think that's a benefit, too 18:52:01 #agreed gaudenz, h01ger, hug and pocock, rafw will visit interlaken on friday 18:52:02 Of course I'm not happy at providing a foodless DebConf, but it might be the only way out 18:52:05 "everyone should go pay for his own food at noon" is really a no-go for me. As mentionned before, below 12 CHF it's unreasonable. 18:52:06 and if we are lucky, Canton Bern offers more cash than Canton Neuchatel 18:52:07 "accommodation-only" was me accidentally copying from above, I meant, people could pay for their own 18:52:15 #todo pocock send the meeting details to everyone (to debconf-team) 18:52:16 more plausibly than when it's centrally organised and we take the risk 18:52:41 OdyX: balmers have kitchens and fridge, some people will go to migros buy stuff and cook. it is reasonable for people with little money 18:52:47 people can we please avoid paralell discussions, this is quite hard for the chair... 18:52:51 pocock: if we are lucky we will find money on trees 18:52:59 Balmer's also have a grill, Jungfrau Park has an outdoor BBQ facility 18:53:12 ana: I explicitely wrote "everyone", that's where the devil is. 18:53:22 people, we are in a meeting - and re-re-reiterating what has been discussed on list 18:53:32 gwolf: thanks 18:53:33 please try to make gaudenz (kind) work as a chair easier :) 18:54:05 Do you want to further discuss the 2) topic from above? 18:54:19 I don't think we can have a usefull discussion about this at the moment.. 18:54:40 #topic DebConf 13 -Venue update - other options 18:54:43 * pocock doesn't want h01ger to waste a trip to Interlaken if DC13 just can't be affordable under any circumstances 18:55:05 pocock: He already booked the flight 18:55:13 pocock: I don't think we are at this stage at the moment. We did not even start to collect money 18:55:27 yes, but at least we can all go bungee jumping instead of having meetings on Friday :) 18:55:44 I'm still very positive that we will have some form of debconf next year in CH 18:55:55 me too 18:56:00 camping ftw ! /me hidz 18:56:05 :) 18:56:06 gaudenz: you suggested two possible venues 18:56:12 (going back to the current topic) 18:56:20 but initially I felt there was a lot of apprehension about changing from Le Camp 18:56:25 Is there any concrete information with them? 18:56:27 I propose that if we consider alternatives to le camp we also reconsider melchtal and fiesch. 18:56:45 The information about melchtal and their initial offer is in svn, 18:56:52 can you add them in the VenueComparison wiki? 18:57:11 fiesch told us in winter that they don't talk more than 1y in advance 18:57:24 pocock: no 18:57:29 gaudenz: So they talk to us now, don't they? :) 18:57:36 that way the can be evaluated on the basis of the `burning questions' that are undermining the Le Camp contract 18:57:41 I think we should first have an initial contact to see if there is any possibility 18:58:03 I can try to call fiesch this week to see if there is any possiblity. 18:58:16 sounds good to me 18:58:22 it'd be good if another de-speaking teammate could call melchtal too. 18:58:23 if people think opening the discussion is worth the effort. 18:58:29 I think it is. 18:58:34 #todo gaudenz will call Fiesch this week to see if there is any possibility 18:58:40 city+bunker is not an option, right? 18:58:41 they both are in the german speaking part, right? 18:58:47 yes 18:59:00 ok so move on 18:59:05 gaudenz: If it offers something comparable or better in any regard to Le Camp or Interlaken, it is worth the effort - At least, the effort of a call 18:59:37 #topic DebConf 13 - Venue decision - how to proceed 18:59:38 hug: I'd rather cancel. 18:59:45 I don't think we need much discussion here 18:59:52 hug: I don't think so - Accomodation in the bunker is just... under the minimum acceptable, I think. I thinke everybody showed the same reaction at the meeting in Managua. 19:00:10 I propose that we collect more information until the next meeting. Without any further meeting no binding decision can be made anyway. 19:00:17 hug: I think we should go outside Switzerland rather than use bunkers 19:00:38 gaudenz: should we have a meeting in 2 weeks? 19:00:52 to consider all the feedback from Friday and from your chat with Fiesch? 19:00:58