18:01:11 #startmeeting 18:01:11 Meeting started Tue Jul 23 18:01:11 2013 UTC. The chair is gaudenz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:17 #chair nattie 18:01:17 Current chairs: gaudenz nattie 18:01:19 h01ger: Is that good or bad? :) 18:01:34 Oops. Already started. Hi. 18:01:34 * h01ger suggests to first add some topics to the agenda 18:01:41 I suggest we do a quick roundtable, or do you want to skip that? 18:01:42 srsly? 18:01:51 quick roundtable plz 18:01:52 gaudenz, please add it to the agenda 18:01:53 +yes 18:01:54 yeah yeah, i'm getting there, just had to fetch a drink 18:01:55 #topic agenda 18:02:02 gaudenz, danke 18:02:05 i was to ask for it 18:02:30 done 18:02:33 gaudenz, please add "birthday party" 18:02:38 right. i've been saying for the last few hours i'll do a very quick round table with last week's topics in order 18:02:47 probably "talks" in general 18:02:55 ok, that's looking better already 18:03:09 "call for volunteers" ? (feedback) as topic? 18:03:15 ok added team roundtable and birthday party 18:03:26 how about cleaning? just so we can have an #info on that 18:03:32 we can do that as AOB, though 18:03:44 nattie: sure. 18:03:49 fabbo 18:03:52 * h01ger thinks the agenda is good for now, assuming nattie+gaudenz will take care of (possibly) more topic points 18:03:53 cleaning and volunteers added too 18:03:54 ok, let's get started 18:04:14 #topic team roundtable - Finance and Sponsorship status 18:04:18 ok please reload the agenda 18:04:33 huhu hug 18:04:34 gaudenz: many thanks :) 18:04:42 regarding sponsorship there is no change since last week. 18:04:45 moin 18:04:57 we have a new request from mikapfl 18:05:10 that's bursaries 18:05:14 (for just adding him to debcamp as volunteer and dd with a workplan) 18:05:16 looks good. around 10k outstanding. we still have a surplus of around 30k 18:05:38 #info around 10k outstanding. we still have a surplus of around 30k 18:05:39 neato 18:05:42 thanks :) 18:05:44 neat indeed. 18:06:05 #info Sponsorship has no change from last week 18:06:09 very nice :) 18:06:15 i think we can move on 18:06:18 #topic Team roundtable - registration 18:06:22 nattie, hug: 20:05:53 we have a new request from mikapfl 18:06:41 that's for bursaries 18:06:45 XTaran: 20:06 < bremner> that's bursaries 18:06:46 Ah, sorry, ok 18:06:48 Xtaranbursariea 18:07:08 any news from registration? statistics? 18:07:13 cate is not here, so nattie or harmoney can you report? 18:07:14 (and a detail we probably dont need to resolve here. just wanted to make sure relevant teams know about) 18:07:30 this is the summary from cate: 18:07:33 * XTaran doesn't find bursaries on the agenda, but well. 18:07:34 registration: 18:07:34 - things going on. 18:07:34 - taffit did the lottery for the rooms with bedding 18:07:34 - shortly I'm ready to publish the room allocation. last weekend run is in Â¬pentaread/room.full_list (but still few changes on attendees and dates) 18:07:37 - [really it is only the room-allocation-1 (e.g. roommates). The room-allocation-2 will be done with FD during DebCamp (i.e. giving to a room code a physical room): some doubts about disabilities and female shower/WC (also considering campint people)] 18:08:01 XTaran: reload 18:08:04 We should communicate soon the food number to Le Camp. 18:08:05 #info room allocation will be published shortly 18:08:19 gaudenz: Ah. :) 18:08:40 rafw: what's the date? 18:08:52 6th august - 10 days is? 18:09:04 gaudenz: I am checking 18:09:13 28 July, i think 18:09:25 * h01ger notes that we'll meet for real in 14 days (or less or more :) 18:09:28 #action to announce debcamp food numbers to le camp by 28th july 18:09:41 I will make sure it's done, either by cate or myself using cate's numbers. 18:09:52 no, sorry, let's make that this friday 18:10:03 #action OdyX to announce food numbers to le camp 18:10:05 as 27/28 July is a weekend 18:10:14 I think registration is done, anything else? 18:10:15 sure, this friday. 18:10:24 OdyX: please consult with me before you send them. 18:10:27 is there any space left at DebCamp? (Mail to debconf-team from Urs Blaser) 18:10:40 hug: will do. 18:10:45 comunal should have beds, no? 18:10:47 +m 18:10:48 Someone who has access to the relevant database bits will need to query his DebCamp work plan and share it with the bursaries team; but if there's no space we should just fail-fast 18:10:55 cate: ^ 18:10:57 vorlon: I will clarify with him, I'm not sure if he really meant debcamp 18:11:14 #action gaudenz to clarify volunteering request from U. B. 18:11:15 yeah, from the dates it looked more like debconf it self to me 18:11:24 ok, I hadn't checked the dates yet 18:11:41 i think that's about it for registration 18:11:42 right - looks like it's just DebCamp, nevermind 18:11:48 #topic Team roundtable - bursaries 18:11:57 BURSAR! anything to report? 18:11:58 vorlon: /me queries pentabarf for this information) 18:12:05 leaving this for gaudenz then, who has the inside scoop regarding volunteers :) 18:12:25 vorlon: we've moved on 18:12:26 I think volunteering request don't have to go through the whole bursaries team. 18:12:27 * h01ger msgs urs data to vorlon 18:12:32 If you agree of course 18:12:33 (some, obviously) 18:12:56 gaudenz: agreed; I'd rather they didn't 18:12:59 I think we rather need volunteers for setup and teardown. Not really for debcamp. 18:13:17 gaudenz: we still need to track the number of volunteers granted. 18:13:18 so other than the Urs issue above, I don't think there's nothing new in bursarieland 18:13:25 s/nothing/anything/ 18:13:32 #agreed volunteering request to be decided by localteam / registration / volunteer coordination 18:13:41 sponsorship approvals/rejects were all sent out a while ago 18:13:46 ok. ready for talks? 18:13:46 * gwolf agrees as long as we have the space for it 18:13:57 #topic Team roundtable - talks 18:13:58 ...we are paying for that space anyway 18:13:58 #topic Team roundtable - talks 18:14:02 oops 18:14:08 ;-) 18:14:11 gaudenz: zwei doofe, ein gedanke ;) 18:14:16 gaudenz, Are we done with Debian Day talks schedulde? 18:14:17 aehm, whats whith mikas request? thats new in bursaryland, no? 18:14:18 gwolf: no biggest cost is food :-) 18:14:23 (mikapfl) 18:14:35 hug: right. But that can be perfectly absorbed IMO if we are receiving them as volunteers 18:14:38 h01ger: i think that's the kind of detail work that should be dealt with outside meeting time 18:14:38 as long as they fit 18:14:49 tiago: I was waiting a bit if someone has a better idea for the packageing tutorial 18:14:50 But anyway, our topic is gone :) 18:15:32 h01ger: we can come back to that after talks 18:15:38 gaudenz, + bdale explanation about his freedombox talk 18:15:43 gaudenz: we'll stick it on AOB 18:15:50 gaudenz, nattie: after the meeting is also fine 18:15:51 anyway, i think we'll finish it before this weekend 18:16:04 then we need to announce the schedule, what about a blog post? I can prepare it. 18:16:11 tiago: yeah that too, but I for the whole team the important fact is that the debian birthday talks schedule is nearly ready. 18:16:38 I'd also like to have a separate page on debconf13.debconf.org for the birthday event 18:16:45 great, so the plan is to announce it maximum this weekend 18:16:45 so, is it actually nearly ready? 18:16:54 nattie, yes 18:17:06 #info schedule for birthday event nearly ready 18:17:11 #topic team roundtable - network 18:17:12 * h01ger is happy how this debianday+party has evolved. i hope i will also be happy stillon the 17th ;) 18:17:19 Ok. 18:17:29 Network is "ordered" at the ISP 18:17:48 Our contact person is on holiday this and next week but passed the details to his boss. 18:18:00 access points "ordered" too :-) 18:18:08 Our contact person will be back at work for DebCamp 18:18:18 #info network and access points "ordered" from relevant sources 18:18:23 hug: Yeah, we'll get nine additional APs from CCC MZ 18:18:30 neato 18:18:33 nice :) 18:18:33 XTaran: anything you need from the team? 18:18:57 hug: CCC MZ worked out? great. 18:18:58 gaudenz: Not now AFAICS 18:19:03 #topic team roundtable - video 18:19:07 zobel: Via CCC Basel :) 18:19:12 great. 18:19:43 Oh, and I'll be away at OHM next week, too, but reachable via e-mail. I just won't be in Switzerland 18:19:47 videos will be released when they are ready. next? ;) 18:19:55 what's the videoteam volunteer status, does it look good or do you need more people? 18:19:58 do we have all the stuff? 18:20:10 * h01ger checks volunteer numbers 18:20:11 nattie: I think so. 18:20:32 #info video material should be settled, audio looks good, the rest comes from paris 18:20:39 fabbo 18:20:47 #topic Team roundtable - bar 18:20:49 we could use more people on the videoteam 18:21:01 h01ger: they'll come. people love pointing cameras 18:21:07 #info: we could use more people on the videoteam - volunteer and make the debian world happy with shiny videos 18:21:14 bar time 18:21:26 heiserhorn: ? 18:21:42 I think nobody from the bar team is around. so next topic 18:22:02 .oO( they are all drinking^wpracticing ) 18:22:15 next? 18:22:18 #topic Team roundtable - cleaning 18:22:26 #info: no update from bar team, they were absent 18:22:29 rafw: your chance to shine ;) 18:22:33 * zobel has one topic for AOB. 18:22:39 aint all shiny here or any news/updates? 18:22:40 zobel: save it for AOB please :) 18:22:53 yep, so I have asked for the contract and th owner is on holiday. I will make this work next week. 18:23:10 #info cleaning contract to be sorted out next week 18:23:21 woo. ok, here comes the big one 18:23:25 rafw: could you clarify if the 3 persons are enough to clean everything each day or not? 18:24:29 gaudenz: If not we will divide Le Camp in two area. Clean half of Le camp on each day. It sounds reasonable within budget constraints. 18:25:00 We have only 9 hours per day (3 person time 3 hours). 18:25:01 rafw: If you have to resort to that, please also ask how much more it will cost to do it on every day. 18:25:02 * h01ger thinks we will have a clean enough debconf 18:25:17 * rafw too 18:25:30 so next? 18:25:35 #topic day trip 18:25:38 we can still give a hand where needed. 18:25:41 * gaudenz is not so sure how much cleaning one needs if 10 person share a bathroom 18:25:42 right. have at it, boys. 18:26:06 * h01ger cleans natties poky nose 18:26:09 daytrip? 18:26:29 yes current topic is daytrip, we trust rafw to do the right thing with cleaning 18:26:42 s/ to do.*$// 18:27:06 * nattie pokes her nose at the topic 18:27:14 given the concerns raised, I have just worked on an alternative plan: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/User:OdyX/DayTrip 18:27:21 * h01ger looks 18:27:22 yes, so there are voice against the proposal to combine Day Trip with conference dinner on boat. 18:27:25 this has more time for coaches boarding-unboarding (blue cells) 18:27:30 is moray_ here? 18:27:35 even if that fit in the budget. 18:27:42 he said he wouldn't be. 18:27:53 the plan also has more time at Soliat/Creux-du-Van. 18:28:15 * h01ger still sees 28k in OdyXs plan 18:28:18 I went with the provisional idea to come back in batches to Le Camp (four coaches'waves) 18:28:22 I am still halfway through the thread... But I find OdyX's mail quite sensible (pointing out the proposed idea is within the approved budget) 18:28:27 h01ger: budget hasn't been updated, I had 20 minutes. 18:28:31 ah 18:28:42 OdyX, well, that was the problem with the proposed plan(s) 18:28:55 grmbl. 18:29:01 You can't change "just the budget" 18:29:02 the budget for the boat is CHf 14k with dinner. 18:29:05 * gaudenz agrees that the boat is expensive, but I think it's also a very nice conference dinner, and please note that this is conf dinner plus daytrip not only daytrip. 18:29:07 OdyX, thanks for trying / working on it! 18:29:26 what this also has is an easier hike, with half of the way in the coaches to asphalt mine. 18:29:45 so the coaches would stop half-way and unload hikers for a 2h quasi-flat walk on top of the mountains. 18:29:56 if we had 20k CHF in the budget, why exactly spend more now? just because a boat is more fancy is not enough 18:30:09 h01ger: you can just subtract 14k from the overall budget to get an idea. 18:30:26 h01ger: We had 28k for Day Trip and Conference dinner. 18:30:39 but OdyX said 20k, no? 18:30:43 rafw: what do we use the afternoon activities cost for? 18:30:50 (me hasnt checked himself TBH) 18:31:14 * h01ger thinks we cannot resolves this daytrip planning in the meeting anyway and wonders how much time we have (in days) - i also think we shall discuss ten more minutes or so... 18:31:15 gaudenz: it was for visit in the afternoon, guided tour of city or CSEM visit. 18:31:18 I think the boat-trip-conference-dinner would be awesome 18:31:18 and we can afford it that day, because we win a little on coaches and profit from the trip back to the venue. 18:31:50 Yes, the thing is we have the money. But now we have to decided if we want to do it. 18:32:14 fwiw, coaches are roughly 20 CHF/person for a day of transportation, roughly whereever we go, if the coaches are full. 18:32:17 maybe it's better to gather opinions about the cost / nice conf-dinner tradeoff instead of discussing details 18:32:36 It's basically a question of how much a nice dinner is worth. 18:32:39 to us 18:32:49 What I'd like to know first is whether the rest of the day is okay as-is. 18:33:07 we could always do without a conference dinner. But at least IMO, where we have skipped it, I feel we missed it 18:33:16 gaudenz, not sure that is all - or if "we like" is a good enough criteria 18:33:21 4-5 activities in the morning, all-together apéro + lunch on top of the gorgeous natural place of the region, then city visit. 18:33:28 The conference dinner can also just be a bigger, more celebratory dinner, *at* venue. 18:33:31 I think we should go ahead with daytrip as is. without conference dinner. 18:33:40 harmoney: sure 18:33:47 again: /me thinks we cannot resolves this daytrip planning in the meeting anyway and wonders how much time we have (in days) 18:33:53 til when do we have to decide? 18:33:55 OdyX: I think the rest of the daytrip is ok, 18:33:56 It doesn't have to be included in the daytrip, and might make it easier if we separate it. 18:33:57 is it possible to have a nice conf-dinner without the boat? I mean, is there any other cheap place? Le camp? 18:34:00 the plan is perfectly fine within budget. sono need to delay it. 18:34:01 I'd like to dinner-on-the-boat to happen, as it *is* a very memorable moment for DebConf, and if part of the costs are "absorbed" by having the buses already rented for the day, it seems right 18:34:08 can we postpone this 5 more days? does that help? (to work out better plans..) 18:34:10 h01ger: sooner is better. 18:34:15 OdyX, sure, but 18:34:19 do we have clarity that we aren't going to be penalized for not eating at the venue? 18:34:35 last I knew, that was an open question whether they would be ok with this or how much penalty they might charge us 18:34:38 h01ger: sooner the better. 18:34:38 h01ger: no 5+ days is not okay, I have to at least pre-book the coaches and rafw all the activities. 18:34:41 rafw, when do we need to finalize those day trip deals 18:34:44 OdyX, when? 18:34:52 h01ger: soon. 18:34:55 sooner is always better. thats no news. 18:35:00 Now... I cannot really understand - Some people argue it fits well within the budget. Some say it's 40% over. And i'm lost there :-| 18:35:01 OdyX, ok, so in a week 18:35:04 thats "soon" 18:35:08 h01ger: Is there a good reason to postpone the decision? It's not going to make discussion any easier. 18:35:17 h01ger if we delay it we drop theboat 18:35:19 harmoney, to work out better plans 18:35:21 h01ger: MEH. We won't have coaches by then, it's a risk. 18:35:24 no reason to delay it. 18:35:27 vorlon: The know that one possiblity is that we won't eat at the venue and they did not say that we would have to pay anything. 18:35:34 s/The/They/ 18:35:48 what gwolf said: is there 20k or 28k for it in the budget? (trip+dinner) 18:35:52 gwolf: it seems that the combined cost for daytrip + dinner on boat fits within the combined budget for daytrip + conference dinner, though if you break it down by budget line item AIUI it doesn't fit 18:36:01 * h01ger worked all day at had no time to check myself 18:36:10 I'd rather spend 2 hours now to go ahead than postpone. 18:36:11 One Daytrip event, people paid their own transport costs across the country we were visiting. 18:36:11 vorlon, ? 18:36:23 h01ger: I don't know, sorry, I'm just repeating 18:36:26 h01ger: It is on the wiki we have 28k Day trip & Conference dinner all together. 18:36:27 27800 is in the budget 18:36:36 vorlon, i dont understand what you repeated. do you? 18:36:36 vorlon: right. And if they are combined on a same-day activty, I'm perfectly fine with one item "lending" money to the other. 18:36:37 Is there any way to make the "morning" activities something that people could opt-in, and just subsidize for them, and for those who don't want, ship them off to the boat for the full conference experience? 18:36:44 as approved. 18:36:45 the budget is okay as-is, that was argued on list. we have the money to go with the full plan. 18:36:46 rafw, hug: thanks 18:37:19 h01ger: yes - either the daytrip cost exceeds the budget for the daytrip, or the dinner cost exceeds the budget for the dinner, but the costs for daytrip + dinner fit in the budget for daytrip+dinner. 18:37:20 harmoney: ah yeah, that's missing from the new plan: a late coach at 12:00 to join the crowd on top of the mountain, entirely skipping activities. 18:37:25 harmoney: yes that's planned, if it's only a few, they can come by public transport to neuchatel, otherwise we will organize something. 18:37:28 Yeah, we have the money. Now we need to make a clever desision about the Conference dinner on the boat. I think that is the main point. 18:37:36 OdyX: 12:00 isn't very late 18:37:41 The boat plan looks like something *really* neat that will stay in the attendees' memories. And that's what a conference dinner is all about. 18:37:49 * h01ger is still not convinced spending 28k CHF for this is a good idea, but if the DPL approved this plan and you all like it, i will happily enjoy our sponsors money 18:37:54 vorlon: late_r_ coaches then. 18:38:03 gwolf: we know all about memorable conference dinners, don't we? 18:38:03 That seems pretty reasonable as a compromise. It should reduce the overall daytrip costs, yes? And address Moray's concerns? 18:38:07 I assume that people who prefer to stay at the venue instead of participating in the day trip will want to join just for dinner 18:38:16 nattie: You don't know the money it took to make it rain indoors. 18:38:17 vorlon, definitly 18:38:24 gwolf: oh, trust me, i can imagine 18:38:34 That was so awesome. :D 18:38:37 OdyX: ^^ this means that having the last outbound coach at 12:00 is way too early 18:38:47 please lets concentrate on dc13 and close in 21m 18:38:52 and doesn't meet the needs of people wanting to join just for dinner 18:38:53 i'm with h01ger on this 18:39:13 vorlon: see above, or what does not meat their needs? 18:39:16 harmoney: what cost reduction are you talking about? 18:39:29 vorlon: aye. dinner is lunch in swiss-french, I always mix. There are two opportunities for additional coaches: 12:00 to join Creux-du-Van for lunch, 17h00 to join Neuchâtel for dinner. 18:39:30 gaudenz: ah, using public transport to neuchatel? ok. 18:39:35 * h01ger also emphasises what vorlon said: we need to take care of making it possible for non day trippers to join dinner 18:39:40 vorlon: Paying full for morning activities. 18:39:56 and /me also likes harmoneys cost reduction ideas 18:40:01 h01ger: as already said, and already said on list and repeated I think that's solved. 18:40:03 harmoney: well, many of the daytrip costs are stepwise (a bus costs X no matter how many people are on it) 18:40:10 h01ger vorlon that is a side issue we can manage at a later stage (public transport, minibus or coach). 18:40:13 vorlon: I'm suggesting to have people who want to go on th emorning activities pay for part of them. 18:40:18 rafw, ack, cool 18:40:25 rafw: well, we want to make sure that it's factored into the overall budget 18:40:31 should i bring up the cern thing, while i'm at it? 18:40:34 vorlon: Sure. And if you know it's about 20CHF per person, ask for, I don't know, 10CHF or some such. 18:40:40 If people would have to pay for the daytrip so we can have the boat I prefer to skip the boat. 18:40:45 getting participants participate for the tiny part of the cost is just getting small money IMHO. 18:40:52 vorlon: public transport is. 18:41:01 rafw: ok, thanks for confirming 18:41:04 nattie: later point 18:41:08 nattie, i think we should leave this CERN thing out and treat it as an "private activity" (where organizers are involved) 18:41:21 * gwolf agrees with h01ger re: CERN 18:41:24 people can opt out and do there thing. enjoy CERN! 18:41:29 fair enough! 18:41:43 we don't have realy the choice here anyway. 18:41:46 I don't feel it's meaningful to ask participants for 12.50 CHF to enter the museum while it costs 25 to bring them there. 18:42:04 can we focus on a decision on daytrip+conference ? 18:42:09 OdyX, getting 200x20HF is not so small money 18:42:12 why is it not meaningful? 18:42:17 its another flight to dc14 18:42:32 ok I'm fine with just asking ~10 CHF from everyone for the daytrip. But I also don't see much benefit of this if we on the other hand have a surplus of 30k 18:42:33 _one_ flight. 18:42:45 even, the more realistic 100*10 CHF 18:42:52 OdyX, yes. could be your flight ;-) 18:42:58 it also creates administrative hassle 18:43:03 it's not meaningful enough for the administriative burden it creates imho. 18:43:19 I'd prefer not to ask for money 18:43:25 can we please leave out the ad personam comments 18:43:28 * gwolf paints his bike red. 18:43:30 gaudenz: because it puts to rest the question of whether this is a worthwhile use of Debian money 18:43:33 * h01ger thinks if someone (harmoney) wants to do it, we should ask for voluntar contributions 18:43:53 s/harmoney/eg harmoney/ 18:44:01 -1 on voluntary contributions 18:44:06 and I don't want to enter the money game where some can easily enjoy activities and others have to struggle money-wise for these. 18:44:11 or we'd split attendees between those who can and those who can't afford it. 18:44:28 hug, thats why i said "voluntary contributions" 18:44:33 i think any voluntary contributions should actually be voluntary, and i thought that's what the bar tip jar was for 18:44:39 * h01ger sees we dont make any progress here... 18:44:42 h01ger: make that a "DebConf pot" at FD, done. 18:45:08 next topic? 18:45:13 * gwolf notes there is pot money in DebConf now. Whee! 18:45:15 Do we all agree that the morning and afternoon programm are fine? 18:45:16 so then we're back to the full cost from DebConf funds for the daytrip, with maybe a few donations 18:45:18 are we completely done with the day trip? 18:45:19 gwolf, lol 18:45:25 again, the budget for DayTrip (without ConferenceDinner) is enough for a nice DayTrip for everyone, can we agree to go ahead with that money for DayTrip? 18:45:28 nattie: no 18:45:37 I'd like us to at least agree on the daytrip part 18:45:42 gaudenz: i didn't quite think so 18:45:45 program is fine.rafw go ahead within budget :) 18:45:49 and I think we need to minute-ize decisions. 18:45:52 OdyX: the dinner can be decided later? or you just want to separate the topics now? 18:46:10 vorlon: you've foiled my plan of running off to Monaco with all the money, damn your eyes 18:46:11 vorlon: I think we can separate the decisions 18:46:14 vorlon, i dont really get why you disklie voluntary contributions then.. asking for mandatory contributions either cmplicates it over the max or hurts the community feeling 18:46:17 I *think* the topics are quite mixed together if we go with the original proposal 18:46:21 So that at least the morning part can be finalized 18:46:26 +1 for the daytrip plan itself, given that it's within budget 18:46:27 vorlon: I want a decision on daytrip-without-conferencedinner, and a separate decision on conferencedinner-on-the-boat (or other plan) 18:46:48 The contribution idea worked perfectly well for DC7. 18:47:04 * h01ger thinks we should move on and if there is more to say now, move this to the list. the urgency for decision and talk is gone, we decided about the daytrip. so... next please 18:47:06 People paid to go to the Isle of Bute, and did what they wanted while they were out there. 18:47:19 s/talk/talking/ 18:47:28 The team as a whole was thanked repeatedly for helping to arrnage it, and far more people jumped at the daytrip than I thought would. 18:47:30 h01ger: then please someone write down a nice #agreed 18:47:31 h01ger: did we decide about the daytrip, nattie said different 18:47:31 i need a decision soon on the boat and to organise everything as well. 18:47:36 h01ger: because I personally think the idea that a daytrip is something Debian must provide for attendees has gotten out of hand 18:47:45 OdyX: +1 for daytrip and +1 for any choice of conf dinner you make :) 18:47:52 vorlon, thats why i think 28k is "not the best idea" 18:48:14 28k was _decided_ already, that's not today's question, IMVHO 18:48:15 #agreed the daytrip morning and afternoon programm are fine 18:48:21 vorlon, but asking for mandatory 20 CHF is too much too IMO. and everything else is too little money to be meaningful 18:48:32 h01ger: yes. But if it's not a good idea to do it with Debian's money, I don't think it's a good idea to do it with Debian's money minus voluntary donations either 18:48:33 #save 18:49:18 * h01ger notes we are going overtime and thinks we should move the rest to the list (as said already) 18:49:19 we just agreed to spend the 17.4kCHF on DayTrip, not 28k. 18:49:32 I need a clear mandate from you guys. Otherwise that gonna be a nightmare. 18:49:32 right, i think we're all vehemently agreeing that we should move on 18:49:34 we are moving on 18:49:36 h01ger: what's your idea how we should decide the conference dinner question? 18:49:39 dont we also agree to do the conf dinner? 18:49:40 nope 18:49:41 now the question is whether we spend 10.4kCHF on a conferencedinner on a boat. 18:49:48 gaudenz, i think we agree we want a conf dinner 18:49:53 and we agreed on the budget too 18:49:57 and we have a plan for this 18:50:03 so, i think we agree on this 18:50:24 Do you want a conference dinner on the boat or at Le camp on different evening ? 18:50:25 at least 15m ago before we brought up the topic of monetary contributions... 18:50:25 I don't think we do, at least it wasn't expressed. 18:50:31 ok ? #agreed rafw and OdyX decide on the conf dinner within the budget and considering the team opinions 18:50:40 nope 18:50:45 it not ok 18:50:51 rafw, you disagree with conf dinner? 18:50:57 gaudenz: +1 18:51:02 no. I want a direction in which we go with the support of the team. 18:51:08 We need a team decision. 18:51:12 ah 18:51:21 going to flames to boat just because budget allows but everyone disagrees is not cool. 18:51:32 rafw, then please dont say "nope" as this sounds like you disagree 18:51:43 rafw, OdyX so you propose we vote, or any other idea? 18:51:48 Yes, this was contreversial so we don't want to hire a boat just because we decided so. 18:51:51 * h01ger thinks we are lost in an irc loop 18:51:57 who disagrees with having a conf dinner? 18:52:02 rafw: I agree with you 18:52:07 h01ger: it seems nobody 18:52:10 folks, can we please settle the question of dinner outside the meeting? 18:52:19 +1 for the dinner on a boat 18:52:20 h01ger: but we have not unambiguously told OdyX+rafw a green light 18:52:25 nattie: I don't think that's a good idea 18:52:35 h01ger: they don't want later to be held responsible for doing "as they think best" 18:52:38 gaudenz: does "within the budget" mean "within the budget set for the conference dinner", or does it mean "borrowing from the daytrip budget"? 18:52:45 gaudenz: ok, fine. 18:52:50 gaudenz: my point is that the core question is not the budget one, we have that money ready for it, but I don't want to be painted as the guy burning DebConf money without anyone's consent. 18:52:51 gwolf, so whats holding us up? 18:53:02