19:59:00 #startmeeting DebConf15 venue decision meeting 19:59:00 Meeting started Thu Mar 6 19:59:00 2014 UTC. The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:59:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:59:02 I'm on a train, 10 minutes from my house, but sort of here. 19:59:05 agenda: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Venue_decision_meeting 19:59:11 #topic Introductions 19:59:14 I would like to ask the chair to keep the meeting to one hour and to make a decision no later than that 19:59:46 * OdyX is here, DebConf Committee member since this year, local/core team in DC13. 19:59:54 madduck: if the teams don't argue too much about points, it will go quickly 20:00:12 good 20:00:15 madduck: but judging from past years, one hour is too short for an enforced cut-off 20:00:15 . 20:00:28 this is, after all, the second meeting 20:00:35 anyway, 20:00:36 * madduck silent now 20:00:57 do we have a quorum from the committee. 20:01:04 ? 20:01:09 committee, please raise your hands 20:01:09 o/ 20:01:15 o/ 20:01:16 o/ 20:01:16 o? 20:01:19 \o 20:01:23 o/ 20:01:24 o/ 20:01:27 o/ 20:01:29 karora: is that a NZ dance? 20:01:32 o/ 20:01:39 o/ 20:01:41 gwolf: a maori salute 20:01:50 There seems to be quorum :) 20:02:06 * fil is here (partly) 20:02:12 gwolf: I think vorlon's answer is best. 20:02:32 wouter: are you here? 20:02:34 karora, vorlon: that's what I attempted to mean ;-) 20:02:37 21:04:47 [OFTC] -!- idle : 0 days 9 hours 30 mins 0 secs [signon: Mon Mar 3 21:58:47 2014] 20:02:50 wouter: Either you or other Beligum bidders 20:02:52 Q_: ? 20:03:00 so, one piece of housekeeping before we start: how are we handling the two German options? 20:03:27 when we go through the points, are we going to discuss them separately? I ask because we can't just pick the best points from each and combine them 20:03:41 obviously not 20:03:44 moray, as one bid, being Heidelberg the first option? 20:04:08 Right. I'll try to phrase a bit better(conciser) what I said on the list: We will be choosing between two _teams_. But I'd suggest we assume the .de team is the Heidelberg one - Knowing there is a strong backup option 20:04:09 I think main+backup is the way to go. 20:04:12 tiago: that makes sense iff no one wants to push Munich ahead of Heidelberg 20:04:13 I'd we handle them as separated bids. It seems the fairer option to me 20:04:40 ana: we obviously disagree ;) 20:04:56 I will vote a team and not a place anyway. 20:05:00 moray, ana I think it's too late to go that way 20:05:22 (that includes the current team choices of course) 20:05:25 tiago: I'm only asking so we agree what we are discussing as we work through the points 20:05:27 to discuss points, separately makes more sense. not too sure about the final decision 20:05:29 I think the German team is ok with what gwolf proposes. 20:05:36 I'd prefer to handle it as one bid with a preferred option: Heidelberg 20:05:42 tiago: from previous precedent, gwolf's is what we did before, yes 20:05:44 let's respect their decision, they (tried to) convince why they consider it one bid 20:06:02 tiago: just in that case we should ignore alternative advantages of Munich for this meeting 20:06:14 * tiago didn't have time to check gwolf proposal 20:06:18 except when explicitly considering "backup available?" 20:06:20 if they strongly prefer one bid even if we some people think that might play against them.. I have nothing else to say 20:06:22 I agree that if the de team consider it one bid, we should do so also. 20:06:23 tiago: it's basically that line I said :) 20:06:27 Right. I'll try to phrase a bit better(conciser) what I said on the list: We will be choosing between two _teams_. But I'd suggest we assume the .de team is the Heidelberg one - Knowing there is a strong backup option 20:07:03 gwolf: I'd like everyone from both teams to get involved, the proposed venues aren't that far apart on a worldwide scale :P 20:07:04 gwolf: I have one request about that 20:07:33 there are actually at least two very strong backup options 20:07:38 FTR, I am not too fond of the way this evolved, as it did _feel_ like a strategy to win no-matter-what. I know it's quite far from truth. But there was discomfort from some people because of the fact and of the insistence 20:07:43 if that is the way you want to do it, fine by us; however, in the end please make the decision be the "German team" and not "Heidelberg" because it's likely Heidelberg will be watching… 20:08:10 madduck-de: OK, fine for me - But moray's the one making announcements, #infos and #actions ;-) 20:08:17 madduck-de: I think it's a decision about places, but sure, "Germany" 20:08:21 gwolf: the insistence came from the time that was passing with us just shuffling feet 20:08:31 so gwolf proposal seems to be ok to the majority? ana, are you ok'ish with that? 20:08:38 gwolf: and we didn't want to win, per se, but we did want to deliver the best DebConf, from the start. 20:08:42 And yes, I understand we want to approach people saying "look, we have one other bid here that might get us better prices" 20:08:48 gwolf: as a counter-point, we were extremely open about this, we stated it on ML and in the wiki. we only used the public wiki and the public channel to coordinate. we used meetbot and used english 20:08:51 moray: that would help a lot, "Germany" 20:08:52 I guess it's only relevant if someone thinks Munich is strictly the best option 20:09:03 tiago: yup, if we'll be only doing the points with one venue, that's hildeberg, I'm perfectly OK 20:09:04 (out of the three on the table) 20:09:11 gwolf: we were as open and straightforward as humanly possible about our thought processes and status 20:09:34 right. We (committee) took too long to action. 20:09:42 other piece of housekeeping: do we have any Belgians here? 20:09:46 so let's play gwolf's 20:09:48 and we feel a tad bummed out that all this is raised _now_, months after we had it all in the current form 20:10:02 … but let's move on! 20:10:27 we need some belgians around.. 20:10:59 madduck-de, please stop the mantra "we want to deliver the best DebConf", we all know that!!! :) 20:10:59 could one SMS wouter? 20:11:00 I think it's traditional for us to have timezone confusion about these meetings :) 20:11:11 tiago: yessir. 20:11:39 madduck-de: right, /me +1's tiago ;-) 20:11:50 i will try and find wouter's cell phone number 20:11:54 should be on the fosdem wiki 20:12:00 Wouter: +32 486 836 198 20:12:16 ana: this is a public channel which is currently logged 20:12:20 (it's public) 20:12:27 RichiH_de: https://nixsys.be/contact/ 20:12:32 oh 20:12:33 sorry 20:12:34 i sent a text message 20:12:37 right ... I would certainly suggest that excessive pleading from any bid is likely to be counter-productive in this meeting :) 20:12:57 part of the decision is obviously about how easy teams are to work with 20:13:21 part of that is attending meetings :/ 20:13:42 i called him 20:13:43 mailbox 20:13:49 let's try gerry 20:14:01 ... ... :-| 20:14:11 (for which, yes, failing to turn up might be a black mark, but so is turning a practical discussion into one about supposed impugned motives) 20:14:49 any other questions people have before the next point? 20:15:01 (maybe we should have a T-1 pingall next time) 20:15:03 I'm quite uncomfortable deciding in absence of one team... Maybe having had that announce on dc-announce would have helped 20:15:06 how about we proceed with our bid and then .be can do theirs? it's not like we need to be present during each others presentation and Q&A 20:15:20 could we push a time deadline to .be people show up? 20:15:23 madduck-de: there is no presentation and QA :) 20:15:37 please see agenda above 20:15:43 i don't want to restart the meeting one minute missing from the end time 20:15:50 madduck-de: ok, let's go that way and present germany. When portland vs venezuela we also allowed the venezuelans to be late, so there is a precedent 20:16:02 #topic Bid teams post links to the materials they have prepared describing how their bid meets points on the the priority list, the weak points in their own bids, and the strong points in other bids 20:16:02 we can share our feelings in the committee… 20:16:07 moray: you asked us to prepare, so we did 20:16:12 aww, sorry 20:16:18 can the Germans post their link(s), please? 20:16:21 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Germany/Bid/DecisionMeeting 20:16:28 everything there 20:17:00 ok, everyone please read them, except whoever is chasing Belgium... 20:17:33 an advantage of being a small country is that it's easy to run away when people chase you, or to hide behind a small mountain... 20:17:50 there's no small mountains in .be AFAIK 20:17:56 but you could hide behind a brewery 20:17:57 i reached gerry, he expects to be online in 15 minutes 20:18:00 no wouter 20:18:04 Belgian chocolate, madduck-de you lost 20:18:04 funny, I don't see in munich that "Three contractual partners (youth hostel, venue, catering);" is a weak point 20:18:26 what does "snug" mean? 20:18:48 as i got a question in private: i reached gerry; gerry will be here in ~15; i did not reach wouter, but i did leave a message 20:18:49 gwolf: well-fitting in a tight kind of way 20:18:50 I thought we were facing the need to fill up too many beds, not too little - am I wrong? 20:18:53 ana: I do... 20:18:59 gwolf: almost tight, but not too tight. 20:19:23 ana: if we left something out, it wasn't meant as amusement. Also, we don't think three contractual partners is weak, but it's borderline. 20:19:31 * bdale is glad to not be on the voting decision ctte this time around, because he's finding it hard to parse the .de wiki page without constantly stumbling over which venue is being represented 20:19:34 gwolf: snug means cosy, we won't have problems hearing each other ;) 20:19:46 gwolf: that's always a question with DebConf. We never know how many we are going to be. It might be 200 or 400, and the venue size is tricky when you don't know :) 20:19:53 right :) 20:20:00 bdale: do you have an example? we could clear that up quickly. 20:20:05 I am a bit worried about a couple of points in heidelberg that are not listed: food/drink restrictions; split groups for meals; what would happen during debcamp re hacklabs; and what about the C&W party 20:20:11 madduck-de: probably would be clearer as two sections 20:20:28 bdale: fully agreed. it mixes both venues 20:20:30 quality of food and drink in close proximity has a Munich answer but no details about Heidelberg 20:20:36 moray: which part? 20:20:37 Tincho: right. normally the idea is that we work through point-by-point in a moment 20:20:47 are we talking about bid or the new page? 20:21:04 madduck-de: the new page. 20:21:15 I'm looking only at the DecisionMeeting page 20:21:16 madduck-de: I was talking about the priority list responses, which I think is where bdale was having rouble 20:21:19 +t 20:21:34 moray, let's go point-by-point then, we had time to read the posted links from .de 20:21:46 +1 20:21:50 right 20:21:58 we'll update if you want. 20:22:02 right 20:22:05 lets start :) 20:22:06 #topic Priority list 20:22:10 " We work through the priority list, considering each item for each bid, and noting areas where there is consensus that bids are stronger than each other. This stage is intended to ensure that no important topic is missed, but even if there is agreement on each bid's advantages, coming to a decision isn't simply a mathematical calculation: some aspects are more important than others. There should be an agreed time limit for discussion of each po 20:22:16 note that last part! 20:22:27 the last part is "po" 20:22:32 we should try to do this quickly, e.g. 5 minutes maximum per point, preferably one or two 20:22:34 i note that you need splitlong.pl and redo the line 20:22:43 we got the message 20:22:46 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Venue_decision_meeting 20:22:55 and this is not a maths exercise 20:23:08 so we don't need to get to the level of "Germany is 0.25 points ahead of Belgium" 20:23:20 the idea is just to force everyone to think about all these important points separately 20:23:25 ok, so first point? 20:23:36 first point? 20:23:41 are these 9 points a comprehensive list? 20:23:51 I just wanted to confirm that gwolf's proposal that if any *team* wins that has more than one venue listed, that either the bidding team accepts that final decision will be made later in consultation with committee, OR committee agrees explicitly in decision meeting that final decision is being delegated to bidding team? (Sorry for bad timing, I just wanted to get phrasing correct.) 20:24:19 bgupta: i think we all agree on that. 20:24:31 thx 20:24:42 I think it'll be in collaboration; it's not like we want to make a decision without your support and then be slayed for it. 20:24:49 right 20:25:00 yeah, don't do that :-) 20:25:07 it sounds like people will be recommending one venue option for whichever country 20:25:16 then changing that is the same as any major change later 20:25:22 i.e. can happen, but needs discussion 20:25:23 madduck-de: I just want to avoid the mudslinging we had ~18 months ago :-| 20:25:27 aka: pita 20:25:45 #topic 1. "affordable" for both sponsors and attendees 20:26:04 gwolf: we learned from it and it won't happen. I think our strategy is well known and I think if we all get to the point of trusting and noting that our interests are aligned, it will all pan out anyway 20:26:14 (sorry) 20:26:15 so, the idea is generally that people not from the teams comment on whether they think both teams meet each point / if one is much better 20:26:22 I didn't see any estimates budget yet. Does it exist somewhere? 20:26:25 s/both teams/both bids/ 20:26:25 here I go: I think mechelen is way too expensive, due to the small size of the hostel 20:26:29 we only respond if asked? 20:26:38 In this point, I feel the Belgian bid has a small hostel 20:26:43 (right, Tincho beat me to it) 20:26:50 the hostel has only 120 beds (~2400 eur per day) 20:26:57 does anyone know what's included in the venue fee in mechelen? 20:26:57 it becomes expensive when people has to be lodged in hotels 20:26:58 the hotels are about 112 p/pax 20:27:00 rafw: no, we do not have a budget yet, we only have rough figures on the wiki pages 20:27:07 I've split the page between Munich and Heidelberg, you can reload to see it 20:27:13 hug: breakfast, room, towel 20:27:17 madduck-de: normally someone from each team can speak, but really it's to your advantage not to jump in with self-promotion of the bid, but just to respond if asked yes 20:27:42 ok 20:27:47 madduck-de: so just jump in if something is so wrong as to be completely unreasonable, not every time you disagree with a comment 20:28:13 my estimate from the figures in the wiki, is that 8 days of debconf in mechelen would cost 258k, plus 15k for 6 days of debcamp 20:28:34 that's without food 20:28:36 does anyone know how Mechelen's expensive budget compares with other ones? 20:28:42 I'm really missing bzdget estimates in all bids 20:28:44 I mean, with other previous conferences of ours 20:28:55 OdyX: +1 20:28:58 hug: Does that line up with the DC13 conference? 20:29:14 Tincho: what wouter had stated in the previous meeting was that we would most probably only sponsor the hostel. The rest would be self paid by attendees who can afford it. 20:29:39 I don't think that a reasonable expectation, as it would mean about 200 non-sponsored attendees 20:29:51 My concern in a situation like that is, what to do about sponsored overflow, thne. 20:29:53 Tincho: rather, a roof of 120 lodging-sponsored attendees 20:30:10 still, very bad for our previous standards 20:30:12 as for travel, I think Mechelen has an advantage as being really close to a big airport 20:30:14 If >120 people had to be lodged, we'd run out of space and into problems 20:30:29 yes, mechelen is great for location 20:30:36 OdyX: travel is a later point, though travel cost is somewhat relevant here 20:30:39 I tried to do it, but I made a mistake with mechelen. 20:30:46 aka cheaper land transportation prices 20:31:22 So... Well, making this a bit shorter (as we are supposed not to argue >5min per point), Belgium vs. Germany, Belgium would win, right? 20:31:27 Sorry! 20:31:29 the opposite :) 20:31:34 as clear as mud :) 20:31:39 hahahah 20:31:46 I have a question: everybody here prefer Hilderberg over Munich? If so, why? 20:31:52 gwolf: thanks for the heart attack ;) 20:32:04 Mechelen is great in having a large secondary airport nearby, although Muenchen is perhaps better for having a hub. 20:32:06 The land transportation prices are always absorbed by the attendees - Although they are real. 20:32:11 ana: that it is not too clear for me, no 20:32:22 ana: pricewise? 20:32:40 münchen seems a bit cheaper 20:32:49 gwolf: isn't that the topic? 20:32:50 gwolf: agreed and travel time is also money 20:32:55 sorry I'm still on my mobile phone, so I can't fix my prepared budget 20:33:04 hug: what's your general feeling on the budget? 20:33:12 (we're over-time already, but cost is an important point ;) 20:33:17 I think all options are doable 20:33:20 ana: I'm not sure, last meeting I said I prefer Munich and there are several things that "attract" me more there. But I think the team prefers Heidelberg, so I'll consider it as the only option proposed 20:33:35 so, it seems: both are affordable, Germany perhaps more so? 20:33:54 yes, germany seems more affordable 20:33:57 ana, I'm more inclined to H., yes, mainly due to the 'one partner part' and 24/7 hacklab 20:34:02 Right. 20:34:03 I have 100% trust in hug's cost estimates, even if only gut-feeling ones :) 20:34:18 tiago: right, those two points are quite important. 20:34:18 gwolf: given the belgium are not here. I think it's interesting discussing the german venues. And I find Munich more attractive so I would like to know why the localteam prefers heildeberg. Not asking so much about facts here maybe more abotu feelings 20:34:32 Haven't been following but if Munich gets a free university venue and that results in an overall lower cost that would be my preferred venue. (The fact that bid team is in Munich was initially a reason I preferred Munich but bid team has convinced me that I shouldn't factor that in.) 20:34:56 (This is of the two DE venues) 20:34:57 is this the time for us to chime in? 20:34:59 ana, ooops .br here now :) 20:35:02 .be 20:35:06 hello :) 20:35:09 Gerry: welcome :) 20:35:12 I am seeing a 100% increase in price here (de vs be), unless I am missing some huge point in the prices.. 20:35:13 thanks :) 20:35:23 how many rooms are included in the mechelen venue fee? 20:35:35 Gerry: hi. were you expecting this meeting? ;) if so, do you have something for https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Before_the_venue_decision_meeting ? 20:35:51 Gerry: so you're the first belgium person of the night 20:35:52 ana: personally, I prefer Heidelberg because it's everything on the same place, less hassle, less distractions, while still being in a city (not in the middle of nowhere). 20:35:52 moray: I wasn't, no 20:36:03 #topic German options 20:36:15 I'd rather we didn't have this discussion again, but since it's happening, ... 20:36:17 ana: I heard, sorry :/ 20:36:23 Yay,back on a real computer. 20:36:37 earlier we agreed for simplicity to focus on Heidelberg 20:36:53 Munich prices include just breakfast, that's why it looks cheaper then Heidelberg (3 meals included) 20:36:53 to avoid "part a is best from Heidelberg, part b from Munich, therefore Germany wins" 20:36:55 my apologies, please ignore my comment. 20:37:00 Right. I'd much prefer if the .de team as a whole agreed which venue they are pushing as primary 20:37:09 jmux_de: ah, thanks 20:37:10 and then, the secondary just becomes backup 20:37:12 gwolf: the answer before seemed to be that they *had* done that 20:37:24 right, but we are being pushed into the discussion again 20:37:34 (40 minutes into a 60-min-long meeting) 20:37:46 gwolf: It seemed that the de team had done that, but the committee is revisiting it. We should not do that. 20:37:49 gah, this is going to be loooooong 20:37:52 gwolf: it is not 60-minute long, realistically. 20:38:01 Gerry, hi, are you be the only one from .be today? 20:38:02 So ignore Munich and all de answers should be Heidelberg 20:38:05 moray: For me it is. I have to leave at 15:00 :-| 20:38:08 are you be good 20:38:15 my god 20:38:16 gwolf: but it will be infinite if we discuss the comparison of german options between each point 20:38:30 so ignore Munich and go on. 20:38:31 Next topic ? 20:38:34 Gerry: can you /nick Gerry_be, please? 20:38:41 #topic 2. 20:38:42 tiago: hi, and so it seems, yes 20:38:45 #topic 2. strong, mature, experienced local team 20:38:59 Gerry, any reason you know for that? 20:39:11 "both have adequate teams" may be enough here 20:39:23 again, we don't need to precisely score each point 20:39:24 More than adequate. Lets move on. 20:39:40 tiago: I don't, last time I saw and spoke Wouter was two weeks ago, he mentioned there was going to be a meeting but didn't mention specifics 20:39:44 #topic 3. good working spaces 20:39:51 sorry, but the fact that _be kinda fails to show up (sorry Gerry, eh), is a problem. 20:39:52 again, all bids looked fine for this? 20:40:01 Gerry_be, ok, thanks 20:40:12 I agree with OdyX 20:40:20 OdyX: I agree 20:40:27 * harmoney agrees with OdyX. I *do* notice that the German team has met every deadline and attended every meeting. 20:40:38 (I don't want to be mean by any ways, just stating out facts that affect my judgment. 20:40:55 moray: Yes, both seem good for working spaces. 20:40:55 harmoney: not only that, they have been eager and pushed us towards finally deciding... 20:40:57 OdyX: I guess I won't judge it against them until I know the reason 20:41:00 It's not necessarily that they're a more experienced team, but they certainly seem to be more prepared for an upcoming Apocalypse. 20:41:19 also, the materials presented by the German team show a lot more attention and detail 20:41:28 here 20:41:35 #topic Belgium 20:41:38 wouter: Yay ! 20:41:39 hello wouter 20:41:41 sorry 20:41:46 wouter: glad you're here :) 20:41:53 \o/ 20:41:56 do you have a link to the materials requested in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Before_the_venue_decision_meeting ? 20:42:12 wouter_be: hi 20:42:18 it would also be helpful, given the preceding discussion, to comment on why you're late :) 20:42:37 wouter_be: we can stop the log if it's private 20:42:42 moray: my cell phone lost power, and I therefore missed the alarm. 20:42:49 I think he has a reason and we don't need to know. 20:42:51 mea culpa. 20:43:01 reading backlog right now 20:43:40 do you have that link / those answers? 20:43:51 then we could read them while you read scrollback... 20:43:54 wouter_be: give them a link to read while you read 20:44:19 moray, i suggest 3 min for them 20:44:26 he's reading something else, I'd imagine 20:44:36 before any other important topic here 20:44:41 tiago: right. 20:45:12 mm, too much backlog 20:45:44 was there something discussed that I should really read now, or can I just assume you guys were waiting for me? 20:46:04 we were basically discussing. We had a point raised for Belgium 20:46:06 wouter_be, we're not waiting 20:46:08 Regarding sponsored accomodation 20:46:14 I think wouter_be should be given a chance to comment on budget, which seemed very high. 20:46:32 hey, we have two more minutes to gossip 20:46:32 ...Having a limit of 120 people with sponsored accomodation (hostel capacity) is too low 20:46:50 and sponsoring people at the hotels would be either too expensive or unfair (or both) 20:47:06 well, the same point stands inversely against Heidelberg. 320 seems quite high as a minimu,. 20:47:08 ...So, I think that's marked as a weak point for Mechlen... unless you have some data to add to it? 20:47:20 OdyX: right :) 20:47:24 too low by how much? 20:47:44 1.5× ? 20:47:48 I would guess that by at least 80 20:47:50 right 20:48:06 OdyX: don't look at beds, look at the total cost. 12.500 for the whole venue and three meals for 320 people. let only 250 show up and that's 50€/person 20:48:09 wouter_be: Also, some people would be OK to pay for lodging at hostel-prices, but not at hotel-prices 20:48:25 I have been in contact with a dorm building owner who was willing to rent us a number of rooms for (IIRC) 200 per room per week, 20:48:27 OdyX: paying for all beds in heidelberg is still cheaper than paying for a few beds in the hotel 20:48:32 but since he only had 20 rooms, we didn't include it in the offer 20:48:48 Tincho: fairy nuff 20:48:49 wouter_be, also please clarify "hostel likely provide breakfast" 20:48:50 20 rooms could fit ~80 people, if they had four beds (matresses even) per room 20:49:00 tiago: website says price includes breakfast 20:49:04 is that dorm closeby? 20:49:24 azeem_de: around the corner from the hostel 20:49:27 wouter_be: approx. capacity of the rooms? 20:49:37 they're one-bed rooms, all of them 20:49:39 i.e. 200 per room per week is 50 per person per week, which is quite cheap 20:49:42 oh :( 20:49:47 we *might* be able to fit in one exra, but no more 20:49:51 extra, even 20:49:59 it's not clear 20:50:12 so we are talking about 140-160 people in cheap accom only 20:50:13 tiago: what isn't? 20:50:15 at least in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Bids/Mechelen/checklist 20:50:16 wouter_be: across all available beds, what is the price per person per night on average, including three meals? 20:50:34 According to their website, starting from �8 for a hot meal (this doesn't include breakfast or dinner yet; hotels and hostel likely provide breakfast, we'd have to do something for dinner). 20:51:02 Gerry_be: how many beds are there in the various hotels? You dealt with them, I think you will be able to provide a better number there 20:51:16 tiago: the €8 was for the "derkinderen" people 20:51:16 you have prices with included breakfast for "Hotels nearby" 20:51:57 wouter_be: checking 20:52:17 sorry if i'm missing something here... 20:52:27 tiago: 20:52:30 oops 20:52:35 we can give a couple more minutes for clarification here, but generally I would remind people they should have asked questions before this meeting -- if points are unclear, you probably need to vote based on that uncertainty 20:53:03 tiago: the price of 8 is for the derkinderen people, who sell meals for elderly people etc 20:53:24 wouter_be: Mercure: 56 doubles, Novotel: 60 doubles, Patershof: 79 doubles 20:54:18 does Belgium have the materials requested in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Before_the_venue_decision_meeting ? 20:54:19 so, that means 112 beds in mercure, 120 in novotel, 79 in patershof, at 55 each, plus 120 * 20 (ish), plus 20 * (200 / 7) 20:55:03 which sense of "doubles" is this, btw? 20:55:10 nattie: double-bed rooms 20:55:22 so one large bed per room? 20:55:22 not separatable? 20:55:25 moray: no. I thought the priority list was clear from our checklist, 20:55:39 wouter_be: there are some other things requested there too, but ok. 20:55:47 * gwolf has to leave... 20:55:47 ...so I'll look at the backlog+decision later on :( 20:55:52 the main weak point is clearly that the hotel prices are somewhat high 20:55:56 Enjoy the (rest of the) meeting! 20:56:21 Gerry_be: they were two beds I thought, right? 20:56:39 wouter_be: also please do clarify if you mean "one big bed" by "double bed" or not (that's the usual meaning here) 20:56:51 vs. "twin beds" for two beds 20:56:52 I don't think that matters much. 20:57:15 gwolf, thanks, bye 20:57:16 the strong points of mechelen: good reachability (10 minute train ride to the nearest airport, close by the highway) 20:57:22 wouter_be: yes for Mercure and Novotel, unsure for Patershof 20:57:45 so, doubles or twins? I am confused now 20:58:06 mercure and novotel (two closest hotels) have twins 20:58:13 Tincho: twins in Novotel and Mercure, I'm unsure about Patershof (isn't mentioned) 20:58:13 patershof, gerry is unsure 20:58:19 ok 20:58:20 ok 20:58:23