18:57:56 <madduck> #startmeeting
18:57:56 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jul  7 18:57:56 2014 UTC.  The chair is madduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:57:56 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:58:13 <madduck> #topic who's here?
18:59:16 * madduck notes that meetbot's clock is off.
18:59:50 <Clint> embarrassingly so
19:00:11 <xnox> Auf gehts, Deutschland! Fiel Gluck im FIFA World Cup !!!!! =))))
19:00:34 <OdyX> kinda
19:00:50 <madduck> that's okay, the less questions, the faster I get to put the laptop down again ;)
19:02:01 <cate> hello
19:02:10 <harmoney> somewhat; from home.
19:02:31 <harmoney> rather from work.
19:02:33 <harmoney> Which feels like home
19:02:39 <madduck> okay, well, there's no reason for a headcount, people should just ask…
19:02:44 * madduck cuddles harmoney
19:02:54 <madduck> #topic quick summary by madduck
19:03:06 <madduck> Basically: the contract is *almost* ready to be signed
19:03:13 <madduck> there are two open questions:
19:03:32 * azeem is around
19:03:51 <madduck> (a) they want 5€ to handle all payments for us (YAY), but they also want it for sponsored people (who don't pay). There is a reason for that (there is effort), and I am trying to get them down to 3€ for those.
19:04:13 <madduck> (b) the contract says keys back at 10:00 on the last day. I am trying to soften that rule
19:04:21 <madduck> Other than that it's all set
19:04:32 <madduck> #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf15/Germany/HD_contract
19:04:43 <CarlFK> im here
19:05:02 <madduck> There is the open question about providing our own coffee (we don't have a sponsor for that yet, but…), but we can resolve that after signing.
19:05:03 <cworth> Me too.
19:05:12 <madduck> Generally, the venue has been extremely cool.
19:05:25 <harmoney> I assume payment means accommodations? So, lodging? Food and lodging?
19:05:31 <madduck> And the contract gives us time to cancel without spending a cent until 16 weeks before the conf
19:05:35 <madduck> harmoney: yes.
19:05:43 <madduck> In addition
19:05:58 <madduck> they also offered to collect voluntary registration fees
19:06:23 <madduck> and we might also offer the possibility (instead, maybe) for people to pay for someone else, quasi as a replacement for the registration fee
19:06:37 <madduck> i.e. they will handle all of that for us for 5€/person
19:06:42 <madduck> which is great, IMHO…
19:07:24 <madduck> if the average person stays 5 days, that's 3% "commission", but it means no conversion fees (for us), no credit card fees (for us), no running after people…
19:08:16 <madduck> in general, I expect a lesser percentage for commission… but I am giving a conservative estimate…
19:08:49 <madduck> The other thing to report on is Internet, and this seems all to be chugging along. Nothing definitive yet, but I am very confident we will work something out!
19:08:56 <madduck> azeem: anything else?
19:09:05 <azeem> not that I know of
19:09:05 <cate> on site payment or also online?
19:09:18 <madduck> cate: on site. they do accept credit card.
19:09:48 <madduck> and we can probably let people pay ahead of time too, if we want to handle the logistics.
19:09:53 <madduck> I know we can, it's just effort…
19:10:05 <madduck> #topic General questions
19:10:12 <cate> we had some difficult also for DC13. Not all people have credit card
19:10:25 <madduck> they take debit card and cash as well.
19:10:41 <cate> so advance payment could simplify (they could "use" other peopel card)
19:11:06 <cate> [but it is only for a minority of people]
19:11:17 <madduck> Well, say you pay online and we have the information in time, then we just file you as "paid" (i.e. "sponsored by yourself") and you don't pay.
19:11:40 <madduck> don't pay on site I mean
19:12:55 <cate> bers and other stuffs could be put together on one final payment?
19:13:10 <madduck> beers? and food at the bistro you mean?
19:13:15 <cate> yes
19:13:23 <madduck> No, I do not think they will let us run a tab.
19:13:31 <madduck> But we can have DC13 vouchers, surely.
19:14:00 <madduck> or people just pay cash. This is completely between every person and the venue, i.e. no DebConf e.V. involvement
19:14:23 <azeem> what are DC13 vouchers?
19:14:34 <madduck> like buy 25 drinks at once and then strike them off
19:14:40 <azeem> ah, right
19:14:47 <madduck> or 10
19:15:07 <OdyX> much fun for the pseudo-money printer. :)
19:15:26 <madduck> \#agreed OdyX handles the pseudo-money printer
19:16:12 <madduck> the vouchers I have not topicalised, so this is not a guarantee, but it's in the "nice-to-have" category anyway
19:16:46 <madduck> there's also some tax stuff to mention, let me quickly summarise that
19:16:52 <madduck> #topic Tax implications
19:17:14 <madduck> I am reasonably confident we'll be awarded non-profit/tax-exemption status
19:17:42 <madduck> Regardless, VAT is still an issue, but thanks to PwC, we seem to have found a way to address this which will even *make* us money
19:17:52 <madduck> I won't go into details…
19:17:54 <madduck> anyway…
19:18:20 <madduck> The main concerns of PwC are that we pay for things like conference ("fancy") dinner and day trip, or the C&W expenses (2,50 €/person)
19:18:38 <madduck> mainly because those might well not be considered tax-exemptable
19:19:15 <madduck> I've talked to conny about this a bit, and we think that it should be possible to find specific e.g. day-trip sponsors, who then pay directly, so it's not a showstopper IMHO
19:19:44 <cate> in any case nor C or W is payed by DebConf, but only logistics
19:20:08 <cate> [plastics mainly]
19:20:22 <madduck> yeah, only the 2,50 € fee they want for giving us wine glasses and cleaning up, and providing fridge space, which I think is very reasonable.
19:20:41 <madduck> cate: I expect to get glasses and plates, for a high-class C&W experience.
19:21:28 <azeem> and these things were you spit out the wine after tasting, what are they called?
19:21:39 <madduck> hehe
19:21:48 <cate> azeem: not at DebConf!!
19:21:50 <madduck> \#agreed azeem is in charge of us spitting out the wine
19:21:58 <cate> nothing is to be lost
19:23:55 <madduck> #topic General questions, take 2
19:24:09 <madduck> anything else?
19:24:29 <cate> no
19:25:11 <madduck> I have a question:
19:25:32 <madduck> Basically, we can take in 2000€/month from now until December without *any* taxes on it.
19:25:54 <madduck> And in fact, we have to take in one such payment ASAP
19:26:20 <madduck> But the sponsorship brochure is in the works (ETA mid-July)
19:26:24 <madduck> and DC14 is to happen
19:26:31 <madduck> so we are not going to actually work on this yet
19:27:13 <madduck> But does anyone have any ideas how to get 2000€ ASAP? E.g. is your employer looking to support with 2.000€ and certainly won't (and has not) consider(ed) DC14?
19:27:58 <madduck> Let me explain a bit more…
19:28:19 <cate> I think it is more for local companies. But it is very early for them to pay
19:28:26 <madduck> We can take in 35k € tax-free in 2014, and we have to take in >0
19:28:44 <madduck> cate: yes, hence maybe someone who's willing to understand
19:28:53 <madduck> the 35k are "pro-rata"
19:29:02 <harmoney> I seem to remember that DebConf has funds it can provide to seed a conference that just needs to be paid back.
19:29:06 <madduck> so basically, we can't just take them in in December
19:29:10 <harmoney> Rather that *Debian* has funds.
19:29:18 <madduck> harmoney: but those would be a donation, not income
19:29:43 <madduck> We have to take in >0 in 2014 because otherwise they might have a problem us using this lovely VAT rule that gains us money.
19:30:07 <madduck> which you can only use [in 2015] if you've made <35k turnover in the previous year [2014]
19:30:12 <azeem> well, but "in 2014" and "ASAP" are different timescales
19:30:25 <madduck> if we don't have any turnover in 2014, they might say we didn't start yet
19:30:55 <madduck> azeem: yes, sorry; the ASAP comes from the fact that we can take in 2.000 without tax for every month, so every month that passes is *lost money*! ;)
19:31:39 <madduck> so "in 2014" is required; "ASAP" is would-be-nice
19:32:32 <madduck> heck, even "in 2014" is not required
19:32:56 <azeem> maybe some local sponsor would like to pay early if their logo is on the website when it gets widely announced for the first time
19:33:05 <madduck> it's worth about 7% of budget minus a little bit.
19:33:34 <madduck> azeem: good idea. However, those sponsors I can think of for this are the ones who will maybe pay even more than 2k
19:33:52 <madduck> i.e. credativ…
19:34:00 <madduck> ;)
19:34:22 <madduck> But that's why I am asking: if someone's employer wants this special placement, then…
19:34:26 <azeem> maybe we can convince them to upgrade to a higher level later on, would that work tax-evasio^Wstrategy wise?
19:34:34 <madduck> yes
19:34:38 <madduck> we do not evade taxes
19:34:43 <madduck> we really don't.
19:34:48 <cate> optimize like amazon
19:34:53 <madduck> not even
19:35:03 <Ganneff> we arent registered in luxemburg...
19:35:04 <madduck> we make use of laws that exist to make it easier to start up
19:35:12 <madduck> and we are starting up…
19:35:21 <OdyX> we could ask zigo for advice
19:35:36 <madduck> Let's not get sidetracked
19:35:55 <azeem> madduck: ok, so I think it makes sense to announce the website widely at/shortly after DC14
19:36:06 <madduck> In the end, RichiH and Ganneff and I are liable for anything we do in terms of the law, so rest assured…
19:36:12 <azeem> so we could try to talk to some companies whether they want to be on it by the time it's announced
19:36:44 <madduck> azeem: yeah, local businesses, and we should think about some where we can ask without losing a later chance.
19:36:50 <cate> and possibly dc15 could ask the "sorry, too late" sponsors
19:37:09 <madduck> cate: is there a list of those?
19:37:26 <madduck> (i.e. sponsors that are somewhat closer affiliated with us e.g. through employees)
19:37:31 <cate> madduck: I think on the "nice" sponsor-table
19:38:02 <madduck> ;)
19:39:27 <madduck> So are there general reservations with us signing this contract, especially given that we can cancel until April 2015?
19:39:35 * madduck heads towards closing the meeting…
19:41:12 <azeem> well, let's wait for another 5 minutes or so, then close it down if nobody answers.
19:41:15 <azeem> we're around anyway
19:41:28 <azeem> just not tomorrow night
19:42:04 <azeem> also, we hope the team doesn't implode if Germany gets beaten by Argentina in the World Cup Finals
19:42:57 <OdyX> wait, Switzerland is not up for the final anymore ?
19:42:59 <OdyX> sh**
19:43:58 <madduck> OdyX: to be fair, I've never seen such a good Swiss team before; but no.
19:44:15 <azeem> it was coached by a german
19:44:24 <madduck> like the USA team ;)
19:44:34 <azeem> and the Cameroon team
19:44:44 <azeem> ok, getting back on topic
19:44:49 <azeem> any more questions??
19:46:06 <madduck> So we're going to go ahead with the contract. As azeem, we'll be available for questions anywhere you find us, and post-DC14, the -germany channel will go away anyway…
19:46:31 <azeem> just like the debconf15-germany mailing list
19:46:33 <azeem> oh wait...
19:46:59 <madduck> point being: we'll mainly organise in the official forums
19:47:19 <madduck> So I will close at :50:00 ;)
19:47:24 <madduck> 30 secs ;)
19:48:02 <madduck> #endmeeting