18:58:56 #startmeeting 18:58:56 Meeting started Tue Jul 29 18:58:56 2014 UTC. The chair is vorlon. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:58:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:59:24 cate: did you want to co-chair? I think our agreement was that you would set the agenda and I would run it :) 18:59:57 #chair cate harmoney 18:59:57 Current chairs: cate harmoney vorlon 19:00:03 #topic Roll Call 19:00:15 * gturner here 19:00:16 * madduck cannot follow but watches for highlights 19:00:18 hello 19:00:19 * nattie waves 19:00:20 hi 19:00:22 here 19:00:26 * gwolf waves 19:00:26 hello 19:00:30 hi there 19:00:32 Hi! Just want to say that I might disappear for a few minutes during the meeting, as I am waiting to be seen by a doctor right now :) 19:00:36 here 19:00:45 * azeem_ here 19:00:51 here 19:01:09 Tincho: I just hope it's not *the* doctor that makes you disappear. 19:01:15 Kinda here 19:01:19 :-b 19:01:38 cool, good turnout today, thanks everyone for coming :) 19:01:40 here here 19:01:45 * _rene_ here, too 19:01:55 more or less here 19:02:12 #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Local (PSU, C&W, daytrip) 19:02:30 hi 19:02:50 so cate noted in the agenda that we have had a discussion about changing our rooms 19:02:55 #link http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20140725.065046.8abb69ca.en.html 19:03:03 there was no pushback on the list, so I've made this request to PSU 19:03:11 haven't heard back yet, so I need to chase them on this 19:04:05 anyway, we'll probably have the ballroom for the plenaries, which means moving cables & equipment - hopefully not too onerous 19:04:08 Did you book rooms for sponsored people? Do you know if there are many empty rooms? 19:04:33 cate: they have a whole second building for overflow; we haven't even bothered to check room availability 19:04:56 ok. few people asked to registration@ 19:05:20 cate: I think the capacity of the first dorm is somewhere between 300 and 400, *our* bigger problem was instead to make sure we could get some rooms in the overflow building if we didn't fill the first to capacity because it's the second building that has family-suitable suites 19:05:30 "Carl on IRC seemed to think this was ok, but we would need to be sure we had the manpower to make this happen. " -- I think what is OK has drifted... 19:05:40 did somebody ask on the video team list about moving rooms around? 19:05:43 CarlFK: drifted how? 19:06:02 azeem_: no. 19:06:05 CarlFK: I asked directly whether it was ok to have to move the video setup from one room to another 19:06:15 ballroom for the plenaries is fine. but setting up during plenary is not 19:07:03 I would want talk rooms 1,2,3 (327,8,9) setup the day before 19:07:17 CarlFK: the day before what? 19:07:29 before they are in use, which I think is Sat? 19:07:43 they're only in use starting from the 24t 19:07:46 h 19:07:47 also on last day CarlFK 19:08:07 #save 19:08:10 tach 19:08:10 CarlFK: so on Saturday, we only have plenary sessions scheduled; talk tracks start on Sunday 19:08:34 CarlFK: (Sunday afternoon, at that) 19:09:01 CarlFK: if more time than this is needed for setup, we can push things around - just let me know what's actually needed 19:09:28 vorlon: ah, in that case I think we are fine 19:09:30 and last day, we have talks until closing(before dinner), sunday morning is free for setup thought 19:09:49 vorlon: in your mail, you mentioned that 327,8,9 could be available saturday afternoon for settup? 19:10:04 right - and again, the building will be open in the evening of the last regular-talk-day and we can move equipment after dinner if that's preferred 19:10:09 edrz: yes 19:10:23 vorlon: 4 hours to set up a room for plenary are enough? 19:10:25 I've budgeted for a 4-hour window for the setup in each room the day before it will be used 19:10:30 h01ger: 4 hours to set up a room for plenary are enough? 19:10:47 4 hours to set up a room for anything is enough 19:11:01 cate: 4 hours the night before, plus all morning the next day if needed, plus the university staff is responsible for things like chaisr 19:11:03 will the plenaris include Q&A? If not, maybe only one camera needs to be setup 19:11:04 chairs and podium 19:11:06 and things are simpler 19:11:40 cate: cough 19:12:01 ok, is the video team happy with this topic now? :) 19:12:11 again, if this doesn't work, please just tell me what does 19:12:11 vorlon: I think so 19:12:14 ok 19:12:36 next bit on the agenda... details about the PuppetLabs C&W party CoC requirements 19:12:38 azeem_: it might be 19:12:39 so there was a mail thread, which is good 19:13:04 however, there seemed to be several different ideas running around about what information we would provide to PL and how 19:13:12 nothing new since the response from Christy Snow @ PL on the 17th in that she agreed that both ours and their CoC's were in sync 19:13:23 it seems one of the ideas was that we would send them a full list of our registered attendees, name & email 19:13:37 I suspect this would make some of our attendees unhappy, though I have no problem with it personally 19:13:49 so we should probably straighten this out so we can move forward with them 19:13:55 wouldn't names suffice, with emails on file with us? 19:14:43 nattie: probably so, but PL had been talking about names and emails all along, i could check with them 19:14:48 vorlon: I suspect *many* people will strongly prefer not handing over emails 19:14:54 gturner: please do check 19:15:14 my own thinking had been: add a sign-up ticky box on summit; send an email pointing people to it for sign up ~2 days before the event; make it clear to everyone that their attendance will be subject to the CoC, and that their information will be shared with PL 19:15:19 gturner: that would be kind. i think a lot of people will object less if it's only names and not mails 19:15:53 gturner: ok - please check if names alone is sufficient; I think my above strawman works whether we give them just names, or names and emails. Do you agree? 19:15:59 okay so if they want more than just names, we'll go with vorlon's plan? 19:16:17 Giving people a temporary forwarding address might help if they object. 19:16:23 gturner: If they want mails, please ask them what for, and what can we expect to receive from them :) 19:16:37 gwolf: got it 19:16:39 broonie: requires informed consent on the part of the attendee, to update their registration data before we send it :) 19:16:51 you need to specify which data 19:17:52 I'll not be happy sharing my email, and I guess if you will put a thickbox «We will share information» you need to be very clear on what 19:18:00 gturner: given the reasons for wanting registration in the first place (capacity planning/RSVP, accountability to the CoC), I think demanding an explicit ack from attendees in summit is still better 19:18:23 gturner: but if you're not convinced, I'll let you do what you think is best - but please at least find out from PL if the emails are needed 19:18:44 demanding an ack is a good idea I think, but trying not having to send them mail addresses would be good as well 19:19:16 azeem_: not just "good as well", but actually much better 19:19:29 gturner: are you ok with this? 19:19:31 vorlon: sure i agree, do both the strawman and figure out if names-only (and more reliable headcount) is okay with PL 19:19:34 ok 19:19:50 #action gturner to check with PL whether emails are needed for C&W attendees 19:19:57 gturner: thanks 19:20:12 gturner: should I also give you the action to implement the summit registration ticky-box? :-) 19:20:23 vorlon: absolutely 19:20:57 that can probably be taken as read :) 19:21:02 #action gturner to implement C&W party registration in Summit (with acknowledgement of CoC and any data sharing) 19:21:07 awesome 19:21:10 next! 19:21:29 for local team 19:21:33 are there any other concerns for the local team? 19:21:40 (per current #topic) 19:21:53 yes, please update the descriptions on summit 19:22:01 descriptions of what? 19:22:02 a local meeting tomorrow, nothing else 19:22:07 local meeting today 19:22:13 it was tomorrow yesterday; now it's today 19:22:16 there are events submitted 19:22:22 I need a volunteer to make a wiki page for the day trip. 19:22:33 I need to know who would like to go on a hike vs who would like to just get on a bus and see Pretty Things. 19:22:54 And it'd be nice if said volunteer could also manage said wiki page. 19:22:54 harmoney: you needed to confirm the limit on the hike first 19:23:12 Fair enough. I'll talk to the hike leader's boss. 19:23:22 #action harmoney to confirm how many people can go on the day trip hike 19:24:05 #save 19:24:08 harmoney: can we just give the wiki management to Brian or Kirsten? 19:24:18 rather than mincing these delegations too finely 19:24:46 rmayorga: so I still don't understand what it is you're asking for updated descriptions of 19:24:46 harmoney: and also length, vertical change, etc ... 19:25:10 edrz: It's going to be a vigorous hike. It's one that I wouldn't go on. 19:25:16 vorlon: for the events: https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/56/conference-dinner/ 19:25:20 (I need to run, looks like I am not needed for remaining items) bye all 19:25:21 vorlon: I would like that, if they're willing. 19:25:41 harmoney: let's start wit that assumption, then :) 19:25:52 harmoney: would need to be noted for many to decide. 19:26:02 rmayorga: that's one event. What other events, specifically, do you need descriptions for? 19:26:18 vorlon: most of the social and regular events 19:26:20 vorlon: Depends what you consider sharing; I'd be concerned about sharing their own address but a proxy address is... different. 19:26:39 https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/34/cheese-and-wine-party/ 19:26:39 Although possibly also concerning for people depending on what happens with it. 19:26:46 broonie: yes, point is that if we shared, we'd be sharing what's already in the database 19:27:27 vorlon: Right, I was suggesting a workaround if there was insistence on getting emails. 19:27:34 #action vorlon to get local team to flesh out descriptions for https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/56/conference-dinner/ https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/34/cheese-and-wine-party/ https://summit.debconf.org/debconf14/meeting/35/daytrip/ 19:27:46 broonie: oh, you're suggesting *we* set up proxy addresses - gotcha 19:28:24 rmayorga: does that cover things? those are the ones I know of that are the local team's domain 19:28:46 so far, yes 19:28:47 ok 19:29:21 #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Talks, Schedulers 19:29:33 we have the list of approved talks 19:29:43 tiago, rmayorga 19:29:46 and we have the time slots all arranged, hopefully in a final configuration :) 19:30:08 vorlon: .... "in a shape we expect to be close to what ends up happening" 19:30:19 fair enough 19:30:22 (final often can just be determined after the fact it has happened) 19:30:22 we have something sorted out already 19:30:24 ETA on publishing the schedule? 19:30:35 It's in a quasi-publishable status now 19:30:39 * edrz has scripts to do the monkey work of entering into summit. 19:30:40 I know some people are asking, so they can make sure they're present for things they care about 19:30:49 * rmayorga hugs edrz 19:30:51 we were checking whether it had conflicts or similar issues 19:30:58 (e.g., there was a question on #debconf today from one of our sponsors) 19:31:02 .oO(nothing against monkeys) 19:31:30 we are planing to contact the speakers 19:32:17 minor annoyance wrt publishing in summit, plenaries are treated specially. worst case we don't use that concept for summit purposes. 19:32:19 then wait check final details 19:32:25 only affect 6 events, afaik. 19:33:09 #info schedule is in a quasi-publishable status now 19:33:15 yes, in worst scenario we called something else 19:33:23 edrz: did you try the same for lunch breaks ? 19:33:35 on test summit we 3 lunchs per day :) 19:33:38 rmayorga: so, when will this contact happen, how long are you waiting for final details, and when will the schedule be published? 19:33:47 rmayorga: i made all meals "Lunch" in summit and display them as "Meal" 19:34:11 vorlon: not fixed dates, but we are trying to finish this week or early next week 19:34:18 or, will make once the scripts are run in production. 19:34:43 rmayorga is talkmeister, I'm just giving some small random help 19:34:56 we will be sending out emails to speakers soonish, I think, and then solve any possible conflicts 19:35:17 rmayorga: what you see is only the time slot in admin, not what attendees will see on the public views. 19:35:34 edrz, great 19:35:59 rmayorga: this week would certainly be better :) 19:36:15 #action talks scheduling team to publish schedule this week or early next week 19:36:45 Tincho, rmayorga: what conflicts are you concerned about? do we expect that people's registration dates are inaccurate? 19:37:06 actually we expect they are accurate 19:37:35 oh; in that case, how could there be conflicts ;) 19:37:46 vorlon: mistakes happen 19:37:52 plans change 19:37:59 they should be nearly accurate, but we see some changes every day about arrival and departure 19:38:09 really 19:38:18 hm, maybe it be worthy to check 19:38:21 but if people know the date of a talk, they really try harder to come that day 19:38:42 ok 19:38:43 anyway, no need to worry. we give them one or two days to complain, and then we publish 19:39:04 "final" status won't be know until it's all over. there will always be a few adjustments to make. 19:39:04 any other concerns from the scheduling side, then? Seems like it's under control :) 19:39:30 And the fact that first and last days have only plenaries help most people not be bitten by changing travel plans :) 19:39:51 we're 40 minutes in ... 19:40:19 vorlon: no, I think we have it under control 19:40:33 #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Video 19:40:40 we talked about room configs already 19:40:42 there will be a meeting next week 19:40:45 * vorlon nods 19:40:48 great to see 19:40:49 vorlon: and we would not be swapping plenary slots between 24 and 31 in the end 19:40:49 video will have a meeting next week, so I think no further news until then 19:41:08 right. and CarlFK and holger are not here. i have nothing to say 19:41:10 move on. 19:41:57 ok :) 19:42:08 #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Sponsor and finance 19:42:26 not sure there's anything that needs to be said here 19:42:33 On last year this was the moemnt to see what to cancel. But it doesn't seems the case this year 19:42:42 do we have money for conference dinner? 19:42:42 thanks to madduck, we now have proper books: git+ssh://git.debian.org/git/debconf-team/dc14-accounting-data 19:42:49 they are not yet complete 19:42:56 right 19:43:05 please ask before relying on a number 19:43:06 cate: yes, we've been fully funded for months 19:43:25 ah.. and I added sponsor because of deadlines 19:43:45 I think top sponsor are fixed now because of t-shirts 19:43:55 yes 19:44:02 I can't imagine we would have any late top sponsors 19:44:28 ...and if we did, we could promise space on DC15's shirt or whatever 19:44:38 … 19:44:43 anyway, sponsorship team should be focused on getting invoices paid here, not soliciting new sponsors 19:44:56 gwolf: if we see the money for it ;) 19:44:57 we can promise gwolf gets their logo tattoed 19:45:12 most sponsors have paid up timely, but we still have $24k in receivables 19:45:27 azeem_: there's so much you can promise... I have not yet seen a logo I'd like to wear on my forehead. 19:45:56 #topic Team and Tasks: status and updates - Registration, Front Desk, bursaries 19:46:03 reg/fd first :) 19:46:06 nattie, cate? 19:46:24 we have 247 attendees now. one new every few days 19:46:35 247 reconfirmed? 19:46:45 yes 19:46:56 people are asking about room preferences 19:47:09 otherwise normal administration 19:47:40 I believe I've landed gturner's changes; did that give you the interface you need to set roommates? 19:47:47 n0rman is tracking all mail we missed 19:48:41 vorlon: we have some discussion about the procedure. We should collect data and give to PSU? or we should do a preliminary plan? 19:49:03 cate: can you please put it in summit, and I'll export it to PSU? 19:49:06 oh, forgot that last week nattie wanted help editing a roommate or two, it can now be done in summit, nattie should probably do that now (i forgot about the specific changes requested) 19:49:12 [but we cannot do it because we don't know non sponsored people, and roommates many time are of two categories] 19:49:35 vorlon: ok 19:49:47 cate: if someone wants to be involved in pairing up people who have not specified a roommate preference, let me know who and I'll loop them in. But for anyone stating a roommate preference, just capture it to the DB please 19:49:52 so roomie preference will be put into summit? 19:49:57 yes 19:50:46 Tincho: it already was present (for the registrant) but now it can be updated by FD 19:51:16 gturner: yes, but not at reconfirmation time, afaik 19:51:28 correct 19:51:33 oh 19:51:42 which is the moment when one is starting to make concrete plans :) 19:52:17 #info Front Desk can record roommate preferences in Summit, email registration@ 19:52:38 other FD issues? 19:52:45 I think this should be communicated to the attendees 19:52:57 no. nattie, n0rman, harmoney? 19:53:02 nope 19:53:06 nothing to my knowledge 19:53:06 azeem_: +1 19:53:11 I agree with azeem_. Someone on FD want to send out an announce mail? 19:53:32 only to sponsored people, right? 19:53:34 Yes. Nattie, there was something else we were going to do with FD, wasn't there? 19:53:37 Oh! Food preferences! 19:53:39 or in announce@ ? 19:53:49 cate: Sponsored people, I would think. 19:53:49 (or if a mail to everybody is queued up already, just add their current roommate or lack thereof in it, and mention it can be changed via mail to FD) 19:54:14 cate, harmoney: the field is linked to Sponsorships 19:54:17 ah, yes. we were going to draft a mail to those who said "other", to please actually contact us with the nature of the "other" 19:55:16 someone taking an #action here, or should I trust the FD to self-organize? 19:55:37 cate: I think it's easiest to send mail to -announce 19:55:58 cate: if it's "only to sponsored people", then I know you'll wind up doing it yourself :) 19:56:24 13 people have "other" in food preferences 19:57:01 * tmancill has to leave work mtg - see the local tonight 19:57:14 cate: you draft, i proofread? 19:57:21 vorlon: I check tomorrow if to send a personalized mail or a announce 19:57:26 nattie: ok 19:57:32 teamwork! 19:57:50 #action cate to follow up on communicating to sponsored attendees about roommate preferences and "other" diet requirements 19:57:55 cate, nattie: thanks 19:58:16 the agenda also says "t-shirt status, banners" 19:58:45 I think banners are well in hand; tmancill, harmoney, and maddogpdx have been coordinating 19:59:00 t-shirts are... delayed. 19:59:06 but harmoney is working on it. 19:59:08 as always 19:59:14 [the delay 19:59:18 no, not as always 19:59:46 but it is what it is; we'll get the shirts one way or another 20:00:07 we also needed to get a bag count to our bag printer 20:00:41 I told harmoney to use "whatever number of people we estimated for tshirts, plus the number of sponsors rounded up" 20:01:01 we send a t-shirt also to sponsors 20:01:04 I know how many tshirts we're ordering, I don't know how many people were in that estimate 20:01:21 we can check with moray_ 20:01:24 there are fudge factors, and I don't know what they are - who knows this, moray_? 20:01:27 ok 20:01:53 #action moray_ to tell harmoney how many attendees are assumed by the tshirt numbers, to use for finalizing bag order 20:02:04 we'll just action him directly :) 20:02:11 Fudge factors but maybe we can sell spare anyway 20:02:31 #save 20:02:49 moray_: sell spare bags? 20:02:57 Sure 20:03:07 ok 20:03:11 either way, harmoney needs a number 20:03:16 I remember giving them to hospitality 20:03:27 and I don't want to be giving her numbers based on different models than were used for the tshirts 20:03:29 but not selling. Anyway money are money 20:03:33 so I consider this moray's problem now :) 20:03:40 spares are generally a good idea - there are always last-minute signups, and people *like* buying the extras for souvenirs 20:03:43 IME 20:04:12 next on the agenda 20:04:16 *child care, special needs 20:04:21 moray_: The number I have quoted is 368. 20:04:28 harmoney: do not give him a number 20:04:31 harmoney: he is to give you a number 20:04:48 next subtopic: special need could be handled by FD, but the child care. we need a delegate or we don't find a solution to the long disucssions 20:04:54 I can check when not on from a phone :) 20:05:37 last I saw, the child care discussion wound up in a bikeshed 20:05:56 bikes are good for entertaining children, but they should come out of the shed 20:05:58 people want it, but ... 20:06:12 madduck: you may be the only one here with a relevant opinion? 20:06:22 Childcare - it's self-organizing and I can help them get a room at University Place (that they will have to find a way to pay for together), but the University cannot provide a room for childcare. 20:06:35 FWIW, we're still(heh) discussing how to do it for DC15 as well 20:06:49 harmoney: how they should comunicate? private mailing list? 20:06:49 not sure what "provide a room for childcare" means anyway; I thought we were going to send them all to the rec center :) 20:06:52 vorlon: well, i won't bring ours 20:06:59 madduck: well, ok then 20:07:04 but there's a huge range of things you can do 20:07:05 vorlon: rec center, federal prision, same thing... 20:07:07 University Place can provide day care assistance, but at a cost. 20:07:12 it's really a budget question, i.e. how much can you afford? 20:07:18 vorlon: was the discussion on-list? 20:07:27 for communicating, that's up to them - it's self-organizing. All I can do is help them negotiate the room. 20:07:33 azeem_: long away, and recently on IRC 20:07:34 someone should contact the people who said they were interested, and sort out the communication 20:07:37 from none via self-organised with a room, to self-organised with one permanent care-taker in a room, to completely outsourced 20:07:37 * bremner sneaks out of the meeting... 20:07:42 harmoney: it's not self-organizing if we fail at putting them in touch with each other 20:07:55 whatever happened to that mailing list? 20:07:57 because people decided to bikeshed privacy questions, instead of just making a mailing list available 20:07:58 is insurance an issue? 20:08:27 azeem_: I don't believe so 20:08:31 not for self-organized care 20:08:34 formorer: are you coming as a family? 20:10:06 so there are at most 11 people reconfirmed who said "yes" on child care 20:10:19 one of whom is a GSoC student so I think that's a misprint 20:10:47 they need a list, we need an idea of any budget we might have, and it would be really useful in any case to organise one or two rooms (two better for sleeping), some toys and some mattresses 20:10:52 bug #720996 20:11:01 madduck: we were not providing any budget for this 20:11:19 well, then they need a list and that's it. 20:11:32 assuming rooms cost money 20:11:40 vorlon: I have 12 people in child_care 20:12:02 * olasd raises an eyebrow 20:12:09 hmm 20:12:12 cate: not all of those are reconfirmed 20:12:16 12 peoplke requiring child_care 20:12:30 vorlon: you should check only attend 20:12:37 ok 20:12:41 so, 12 20:12:45 what do we do with them? 20:12:55 The non reconfirmed people have been unchecked as attendee. Some new people did set reconfirm 20:13:03 it's roughly 10 20:13:14 I propose a private mailign list and tel them to subscribe 20:13:24 who's setting up the mailing list? 20:13:25 and then they will self-organize 20:13:36 http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-kids 20:13:43 does not exist 20:13:46 vorlon: list managers have no problem to set it up (according the IRC) 20:13:50 Ganneff: ^ 20:13:57 new lists are supposed to be lists.debian.org 20:14:01 it should live on lists.debian.org anyway 20:14:02 yeah 20:14:28 no, not Ganneff, but IIRC formorer or an other list manager in this channel 20:14:48 I'll check. Is it ok to ask them to do a private mailign list without archive? 20:15:11 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=720996 was closed by madduck 20:15:18 madduck: wtf 20:15:31 madduck: I think that means you get this action item 20:15:57 azeem_ zobel ^^ 20:16:25 cate: ? 20:16:36 are you a list master? 20:16:54 cate: yes please? 20:17:03 vorlon: i thought it was reoppened 20:17:10 madduck: apparently not 20:17:22 madduck: no, until we decided exactly the options 20:17:38 formorer unarchived it but then didn't follow up… or left it to someone else 20:17:52 cate: private; unarchived. What's so hard about that? 20:18:03 cate: sorry, not trying to snipe at yo. 20:18:11 I made a bunch of proposals here. and I still think my initial proposal in the bug makes sense 20:18:22 madduck: bike sheding. On discussion there was always pother proposals 20:18:39 ok, who can take the action to drive this to a conclusion and get in touch with those people who expressed interest in summit? 20:18:39 (speaking as listmaster and parent) 20:18:58 but I think we finally agree. We can sort out the burocracy of mailing list now 20:19:16 vorlon: please make an agree before womebody complain! 20:19:17 let 20:19:24 's just go with https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=720996#65 ? 20:19:33 cate: what are we #agreeing? 20:19:54 unarchived private mailing list for child care 20:20:33 #agree unarchived, private mailing list needed for self-organizing debconf child care 20:20:56 cate: but who's following up on this? :) I want to #action someone so we can finish the agenda :) 20:20:59 eh no. 20:21:08 formorer's proposal was a general public, archived discussion list, and a private specific names-on-the-ground list 20:21:11 makes sense to me 20:21:12 formorer: just subscribe now and make your own archive, please. 20:21:13 oh, ffs 20:21:20 madduck: no. 20:21:31 I won't create just a private list. 20:21:43 you may have a conflict of interest here 20:21:44 either someone takes an action, or you can argue this to death after we finish the rest of the agenda :) 20:21:45 we failed again 20:22:01 that doesn't make any sense. there is nothing secret in discussion about child care unless a specific child is involved. 20:22:24 vorlon: just send a message to all participants and ask them to send mails because we fail to make a list for them. 20:22:33 I agree with formorer. 20:22:37 i do not 20:22:37 madduck: that's an action; I'm not taking that action 20:22:39 formorer: but self-organizing, so place and time where children will be moved during DC14, etc. 20:22:47