19:01:16 #startmeeting 19:01:16 Meeting started Fri Feb 13 19:01:16 2015 UTC. The chair is marga. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:16 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:01:26 . 19:01:33 #chairs moray marga 19:01:48 #chair moray 19:01:48 Current chairs: marga moray 19:01:56 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Meetings#DC16_decision_meeting_agenda 19:02:13 That's the agenda that we intend to use 19:02:58 cyphermox_mtl and I will be speakers for Montréal, as last time 19:03:06 We will go through the different points in the priority checklist and each of the member of the committee shall voice their opinion. 19:03:13 pollo_mtl, cyphermox_mtl said lavamind_mtl and you. 19:03:30 Everyon that is around, please say hello, so that you know you are there. 19:03:36 marga: oh, damn, sorry, it's true 19:03:37 hello ! 19:03:37 o/ 19:03:43 miau 19:03:43 hola! 19:03:46 hola 19:03:47 hola 19:03:47 #topic Introductions 19:03:51 salut 19:03:54 (sorry about that) 19:04:01 hi 19:04:04 hi 19:04:05 hi! 19:04:08 Any offtopic discussion should be done in #debconf-discuss 19:04:10 I'm here! :) 19:04:14 hi 19:04:24 hi 19:04:29 o/ 19:04:40 hi 19:04:42 . 19:04:49 I will only set the channel to moderated if it's needed. 19:05:08 howzit! 19:05:52 So, the bids have sent their updates. Unfortunately they were a bit last minute, so hard for us to analyze. 19:06:30 marga: Setting moderated now may be useful to prevent mistakes when people turn up half-way through. 19:06:31 I'll give 4 minutes (i.e. until :10) to write here any important updates that you want the committee members to take into account. 19:06:54 After that, we start going through the priority list 19:07:21 (please reload the page if you already loaded it, as it includes a bunch of useful comments) 19:07:58 * h01ger wouldnt mind a summary here 19:08:00 reminder of link: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town/Status#Since_the_first_meeting [which hasn't changed since I posted it to the list] 19:08:32 oh, I forgot to mention in the status update, that child care has been confirmed, at UCT 19:09:03 out status update is here: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Montreal/Status 19:09:14 the only things that are to add is that we got clearer dates 19:09:40 we were recommended June 19-30 or July 18-26 19:09:43 pollo_mtl: do you have a link to your updated venue/security and food prices you mentioned in the update? 19:09:48 pollo_mtl: as in more restricted dates? or how are they clearer? 19:10:01 I don't think dates are relevant for this meeting 19:10:06 s/restricted/specific/ 19:10:19 So, please let's not discuss that now. 19:10:20 marga: if they are unchangable, i think they are 19:10:21 security - https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Montreal/Venues/McGill#How_much_does_it_cost_to_rent_these_facilities.3F 19:10:34 they are not unchangeable 19:10:37 recommended times from our accomodation, this is the time where they are the least busy 19:10:42 that's all 19:10:52 marga: we had this debconf13 where place and time could not be changed and the local team argued we should have known as it was clear in the meeting... 19:10:53 h01ger, nope. We've always gone with whatever was available. Not relevant, please let's not discuss that. 19:11:07 #topic Priority list 19:11:09 pollo_mtl: sorry, how much is 22750CAD$ en USD? EUR? 19:11:31 16012.19 Euro 19:11:39 18238.52 US Dollar 19:11:46 Alright, let's start going throu the priority list now. 19:11:47 n0rman_: yeah, but as said previously, it can chnage quite a bit 19:12:00 #topic affordable for both sponsors and attendees [including venue and travel costs] 19:12:01 hi! 19:12:08 I'm here too 19:12:11 hug: food - https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Montreal/Venues/McGill#How_much_are_the_meals_per_person_per_day.3F 19:12:28 pollo_mtl, ok, thanks. Please let us move on now. 19:12:48 pollo_mtl: thx 19:12:59 So, this is for committee members to evaluate 19:13:16 Please go ahead and express a succint opinion on this point. 19:13:23 This is about total costs -- venue plus food plus accommodation plus travel etc. 19:13:28 pollo_mtl: so the venue price is unchanged, correct? 19:13:39 has anybody made a quick budget with the current prices? 19:13:56 hug: it changed a bit, but not much. Mainly because we decided to rent more rooms 19:14:08 IMO we will see great variation here... One bid is much cheaper to *be at*, while much more expensive to get to, and the other one almost opposite :( 19:14:12 Tincho, not as far as I know. 19:14:13 Tincho: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/debconf-data/bid-capetown.git/tree/venue_info/debconf16_cost_comparison.ods 19:14:14 roughly 50k CAD for venue/security, I'd say 19:14:15 Tincho: To me it seems like the sum cost for sponsors plus attendees will be lower for MTL because of half the people getting cheaper travel. 19:14:18 venue + food cost of mtl are 17.800 EUR more expensive than .za, i am still looking for sleeping cost 19:14:36 Tincho: I don't think that the variations in venue costs between the two bids are big compared to the difference I see in travel costs. 19:14:48 My opinion: although flights to CPT are more expensive for people from North America, they are the same for people from the rest of the world. Everything else is cheaper in CPT. 19:14:59 * h01ger thinks we shouldnt weight unsponsored travel costs - those are not conference costs after all 19:15:06 should weight less 19:15:15 even if we are just a few of us, but travalling from latin america is very expensive as well 19:15:36 h01ger, they are not conference costs, but they affect who gets there. 19:15:37 h01ger: Right, although it will impact people willing to travel (even paying themselves) 19:15:42 moray: ok, good to know. I thought the venue costs were much higher 19:15:45 (assuming 300 people in the above) 19:15:46 h01ger: I expect it would be a smaller conf in ZA 19:15:54 marga: yes I agree 19:16:01 gwolf: yes, that's likely 19:16:15 h01ger: to the extent that it impacts turnout, unsponsored travel costs matter 19:16:18 gwolf: i agree. same as in .ni... 19:16:30 gwolf: yeah, but that is not a positive aspect :) 19:16:33 same as in all of Latin American confs so far 19:16:46 if that is the point, we should always stick with europe / US 19:16:47 h01ger, from what I looked at, flight prices for Europe are less expensive for CPT than for .ni 19:17:04 My point of view is that there's a slight advantage to CPT in this case 19:17:07 going away from the center will always be expensive 19:17:25 tassia: we can decide whatever we want, but we shouldn't just *ignore* the travel costs 19:17:28 average accomodation price in mtl is 2 eur per person and night higher so assuming 300 people, the total difference is 18500 eur for venue, food, accom with 300 people 19:17:40 tumbleweed_cpt: that spreadsheet is way too complex to read now :) 19:17:47 * h01ger agrees with marga 19:17:53 indeed, having the venue for free and the cheap price for food is at advantage 19:18:06 rmayorga: surely. 19:18:23 moray, I acknoledge it, I just think that venue + food costs could balance 19:18:25 well, cost-wise CPT is on the cheaper side IMO. food 8EUR vs 20CAD, venue free vs 50k CAD, accomodation probably about the same.. 19:18:28 Tnx. Can the rest please try to state weather they see a slight/medium/large advantage for one of the teams, or a tie? 19:18:29 that being said, travel will be more expensive and i also expect a slightly smaller DC in .za than in .ca 19:18:36 rmayorga: also accomodation looks cheaper than MTL 19:18:40 We don't want to discuss every penny 19:18:41 marga: is there a useful reason to come up with a simple "ahead" for one, versus separating these two questions? 19:18:53 n0rman_: on average: €2 cheaper 19:18:58 marga: e.g. "CPT ahead on venue costs, MTL on costs to attendees" 19:18:59 I agree on slight + for cpt 19:19:12 marga: e.g. "CPT ahead on venue costs, MTL on costs to attendees/travel sponsorship" 19:19:15 * RichiH_ctte also sees a slight advantage for cpt 19:19:16 moray, well, it's been historically one point :). 19:19:32 \me sees a tie 19:19:45 marga: well, the alternative is that I go on arguing that you are wrong to ignore the large extra travel costs :) 19:19:48 do we note this down now or go through it later? 19:19:51 I feel it to be slightly advantageous to CPT, iff European travel costs are similar to both destinations 19:19:56 * h01ger thinks its a medium advantage as money is a huge burdon 19:19:58 IMO 50k CAD is a lot, we never had such an expensive venue 19:20:11 I hope it would be cheaper after some negotiations 19:20:12 gwolf: except 2016 is meant to be an "Americas" year 19:20:31 vorlon: Not a strict rule FWIW 19:20:36 vorlon: we have always said so 19:20:44 Alright, let's just split it as I think there's basically a consensus of the split: strong advantage for CPT regarding venue+accom, medium advantage for MTL regarding travel? 19:20:45 vorlon: In any case, it would be an "out of Europe" year :) 19:20:50 vorlon: i think the scheme is switching continents, not america nor europe every two years 19:21:10 marga: if we split up the two points, i can agree to your call for consensus 19:21:11 hug: 50k CAD for venue? I'm seeing 27572 CAD$ for venue, am I seeing in the wrong place? 19:21:12 The scheme is not written in stone and it's really not now the moment to discuss it. 19:21:17 n0rman_: security 19:21:25 n0rman_: i just realized that hug inclded security 19:21:28 which we must 19:21:34 Can we try to agree on this point and move on to the next? 19:21:36 marga: the travel point is "strong" to me, it's a big cost to have so few people in cheap reach of the venue 19:21:41 gwolf: whether or not it's a rule, the travel costs from the Americas weight more for me than travel costs from Europe 19:21:48 but yes, I think we should agree we agree on the status, if not exact words 19:21:49 ...And how many flight tickets would 50K buy us? That's IIRC more than our usual travel budget 19:22:03 hug: RichiH_ctte right so es 27572 + 22750? that's really expensive...... 19:22:04 vorlon: OK, fair point. Also to me personally. 19:22:09 gwolf: ~50 from europe 19:22:12 * Tincho just checking flights from dublin on this july and the difference is 900 vs 1800 USD 19:22:21 gwolf: normally we have a significant number of people who can get cheap fligths 19:22:22 marga: i think you should summarize some state of how we see this and move to the next, yes 19:22:23 vorlon: and we have quite a big mass of developers in North America. 19:22:26 gwolf: we wouldn't really in this case 19:22:34 the discussion is getting meta.. 19:22:37 Tincho: can you tell us which one was 900? 19:22:45 rmayorga: MTL 19:22:50 #agreed advantage to CPT regarding venue+accom, advantage to MTL regarding travel 19:22:56 there are cheaper flights to CPT, but they take 24 hours 19:23:00 marga: please also note the 50k CAD venue costs, which is about half-1/3 of our typicial budget 19:23:01 Tincho: if that's the case, then there's *not* a price parity between both 19:23:03 marga, did we agree? 19:23:04 marga: thx 19:23:09 Sorry, that was wrong 19:23:12 #topic strong, mature, experienced local team 19:23:37 So, I think both bids are weak here 19:23:38 IMO both teams are strong and experienced. 19:23:43 tassia: not necessarily an agreement, but we were starting to re-state each their own points 19:23:45 hug: Really? Out of *locals*? 19:23:58 They are both very unexperienced 19:24:03 marga: use "rough agreement" instead of "we agree" ;-) 19:24:04 gwolf, marga , ok, I hadn't see the split 19:24:06 i think cpt has the stronger team, but mtl has the stronger _local_ team 19:24:07 (regarding DebCOnf) 19:24:31 what makes for strong here? having run a debconf in the past? 19:24:34 I feel this point advantageous towards CPT. 19:24:35 just to be clear, we had no outside (out of Mtl) help in building this bid 19:24:54 gwolf: Because of the outside mentors, or something else? 19:24:57 * h01ger thinks physical location of the whole team is a red herring 19:24:58 well they both have some experience and have some previous debconf team members. which IMO is enough 19:25:11 h01ger, red herring? 19:25:16 I think on mtl, it will depend on how many lpeople from local team will decide to work on it, probabaly this will change if they get the venue or not 19:25:22 tassia: hint in the wrong direction 19:25:25 moray: because of more people involved in the bid that have had experience in DebConf, both as attendees and as organizers (i.e. wendar) 19:25:42 tassia: I guess I should not be counting you+tiago as local team, right? 19:25:44 we won't end up with a one-man-show in either bid 19:25:53 gwolf: ok -- I think madduck/wendar were calling themselves mentors recently 19:25:54 h01ger: for me is a very difficult thing, because we always had remote people helping in various degrees, and you know that better than anybody :) 19:26:13 I think "experienced" here has always meant whether the team has experience within DebConf organization itself, and all its idiosyncracies 19:26:25 wendar and tumbleweed_cpt have both said that they would be there in advance. 19:26:41 yes, I don't think experience in other kinds of events is so useful for debconf 19:26:48 moray: IIRC wendar had stated she'd go "station" at CPT for a couple of months before the conference... I'm counting her as part of the team, not as mentor. But I might be mistaken 19:26:48 if MTL wins, you can count me as a mentor, but I can't commit to orga team 19:26:53 There's a bunch of experienced people in Montreal, but only Tiago was involved in the bid, and as a mentor. 19:26:55 gwolf, ^ 19:27:18 mentors help in the case that the bid team doesn't have this experience; there's still the question of whether the people making the decisions on the ground for the local team understand DebConf 19:27:37 vorlon: that also depends on how involved "mentors" are 19:27:38 Please let's not discuss each point to death 19:27:39 i.e., if we're reliant on mentors, there needs to be a good relationship with those mentors 19:27:41 I think wendar and tumbleweed_cpt are more involved then just mentors 19:27:47 marga++ 19:27:54 My opinion is that there's a slight advantage for CPT here. 19:27:56 FWIW both tiago` and wendar count themselves as localteam for both bids 19:28:01 can we all give a short indication of what we think? 19:28:03 anybody else upping the ante? :) 19:28:12 marga: agreed 19:28:18 I also want indiebio_cpt to get to DC15, to get more experience with DebConf 19:28:21 * RichiH_ctte sees a slight advantage for cpt 19:28:26 me thinks the topic is misleading. the local team also needs to be global, as in work inside the debconf team... 19:28:37 (what i said on #-discuss basically) 19:28:44 I see an advantage to cpt here 19:28:51 * Tincho is expecting the local team to become global tomorrow 19:28:54 tumbleweed_cpt: that is the way to go, normally people from DebConf+1 should attend to DC and get involved 19:29:18 * h01ger cheers tiago` and wendar being part of both bids localteams - actually i would like to hear their recommendations ;-) 19:29:23 but maybe this is a misperception because the mentoring on mtl has been behind the scenes? 19:29:28 Does anyone disagree with (slight) advantage to CPT? 19:29:41 marga: For me I think either can work; the non-localness of key people in CPT worries me a bit 19:29:55 I see advantage to cpt 19:30:02 But with continued enthusiasm it shouldn't be a problem 19:30:31 next 'opic then? 19:30:38 the amount of work that they've done to the bid preparation show that they can get things done 19:30:41 #agreed slight advantage to CPT 19:30:45 I see CPT being better organised, but I am not sure how to evaluate because of the non-localness 19:30:52 #topic good working spaces [hacklabs, discussion rooms etc.] 19:31:12 for me there is tie here, both venues looks very good 19:31:18 I'd set a tie on this, having seen only few photos... Both bids look like they can exceed what we need from a venue 19:31:19 I think both are ok in this sense 19:31:22 same 19:31:23 Yes 19:31:28 tie for me 19:31:28 yes, great venues 19:31:29 #agreed Tie 19:31:38 #topic excellent network connectivity 19:31:46 marga: give a few seconds so people can talk :) 19:32:04 I may have looked at the CPT venue more closely than the MTL one because I was in Cape Town last week ;P but I agree that this looks like a tie 19:32:29 marga: what happened to 3 minutes per topic? 19:32:34 I think it will also be a tie in the end. I know there's a bit of missing details yet on MTL on this, but seeing the infrastructure of the venue, I doubt there'll be a real difference 19:32:41 vorlon, we spent way too much on the first too 19:32:57 ...In CPT we have the network administrator on our side, which is a plus ;-) But I wouldn't decide just on that basis 19:32:58 I think there won't be an issue with network connectivity with both venues 19:33:00 here looks like we have an advantage for CPT since they have the IT person from UCT as local-team 19:33:04 and therefore you're changing topics before all members of the committee have had a chance to respond 19:33:05 i suspect both venues will have adequate network speed 19:33:08 I'd say tie 19:33:17 can we include here how we will work with the network admin staffs on the venue ? 19:33:25 amount of ipv4 space is unclear, but i have more levarage with afrinic than with arin 19:33:30 rmayorga: what do you mean? 19:33:39 if its a cpt advantage it's slight: I expect both venues to have great connectivities 19:33:42 RichiH_ctte: I don't think ipv4 space is really a concern 19:33:45 ipv4 space in CPT is apparently a complete non-problem 19:33:50 I think it's a tie 19:33:51 wifi is impossible to tell at this point; but i suspect CPT would be more OK with us pulling cable 19:33:53 they're unis after all, so they should be sorted 19:33:54 no real need to hand over public ips 19:33:57 RichiH_ctte: i think debconf needs 5 ip addresses at max, we can also work with 3 19:33:58 anyway, tie 19:33:59 otoh, CPT has shitty access controls 19:34:00 I agree it's a tie 19:34:02 (v4) 19:34:11 Tincho: willingness to help us on the network setup(ie having our own ssid, etc) 19:34:14 UCT has a /16 and some /24s - there are lots of IPs around 19:34:19 * h01ger also agrees it a tie, probably 19:34:23 h01ger, Tincho: i am a networker. we will have enough ip space :) 19:34:30 #agreed tie 19:34:31 :) 19:34:42 #topic quality and quantity of food and drink in close proximity [including cafes etc. for off-site discussions] 19:35:27 I think mtl has a clear advantage here 19:35:28 IMO, mtl is strong on this point 19:35:33 Yeah 19:35:36 this depends on the venue choice in CPT. the central location of the MTL venue is probably in advantage here 19:35:44 The advantage would be smaller in the second CPT venue 19:35:49 CPT is much better than I initially thought, but still 19:35:55 yes, but we shouldn't assume the backup venue 19:35:58 I think we could focus on a single venue 19:36:02 as it's listed as backup, so let's say mtl 19:36:03 UCT does have restuarants and pubs in walking distance 19:36:05 I mean versus the second CPT venue, but yes, we shouldn't assume that one. 19:36:10 I guess we need to convice the CPT team to switch to the backup venue :) 19:36:11 lets discuss using UCT only 19:36:22 hug: then we lose the price advantage 19:36:23 hug: In other aspects I think they made the right preference 19:36:34 hug: backup venue isnt free, am I right? 19:36:37 tumbleweed_cpt: yeah, but they are all >15m away, right? 19:36:42 this isn't actually clear to me from the mtl bid page what outside food is available and at what distance - do we assume food's available because it's downtown? 19:36:45 >15m absolutely :) 19:36:48 i suspect the quality/level of interest speaks for CPT; everythign else speaks for MTL 19:36:51 if m = metre 19:36:52 .oO( sounds like medium advantage for MTL ) 19:37:00 I have never been to CPT, but I've been to McGill. And its location WRT bars and restaurants is hard to beat 19:37:01 about 15 min walk, I think 19:37:06 so yah, + for mtl 19:37:11 tumbleweed_cpt: min, sorry :) 19:37:15 n0rman_: tumbleweed_cpt correct, it depends on the costs and it would reduce the price advantage to MTL 19:37:23 Alright, agreed advantage for MTL? 19:37:28 agreed 19:37:29 aye 19:37:30 vorlon, yes, downtown MTL has many options 19:37:31 yes 19:37:31 yup 19:37:34 yes 19:37:35 #agreed Advantage to MTL 19:37:46 #topic suitable accommodation in close proximity 19:38:35 Both have the accom very close. I think CPT is slightly better for non-fancy attendees as it's "in campus", whereas MTL is slightly better for fancy attendees. 19:38:48 for CPT, IIRC most of the of-venue facier accommodation requires a taxi/car 19:38:53 this is for sponored accom, right? 19:38:58 Tincho: not necessarily 19:39:00 Tincho, both 19:39:03 ah 19:39:14 because non-sponsored seems a bit tricky for CPT 19:39:16 marga: agreed 19:39:19 rmayorga: there is a *lot* fo on-venue accom 19:39:20 Tincho, also, consider self-paying staying-with-sponsored people. 19:39:21 ...I care more about sponsored (or lets say "common") accomodation 19:39:28 i find it hard to care for people who need/want fancy 19:39:31 rmayorga: you'd probably want a car for the off-venue accom, but it isn't required 19:39:35 Tincho: well, if by that you mean "hotels", yes 19:39:38 (i.e. people paying for their accom but staying at the dorms get the same advantages) 19:39:39 there is a hotel in walking distance 19:39:41 tumbleweed_cpt: yes, agree, but I mean fancier as hotels 19:39:42 Few people stay in hotels 19:39:43 Tincho: why is non sponsored tricky for CPT? 19:39:50 RichiH_ctte: I don't mind too much about "fancy", but some people have specific preferences 19:39:51 Tincho, not everyone that isn't sponsored wants fancy hotels. 19:39:53 and serveral fancy guest houses (nicer than hotels) 19:39:54 vorlon: yeah, hotels is the word :) 19:39:57 but it seems non-sponsored private accom would be possible at CPT via the "guest house" option 19:39:58 I had the impression, that there's a sponsored option nearby, and that self-paying was the problem am I wrong? 19:40:01 people on fancy hotels wouldn 19:40:12 moray: unless they are medical, i find it similarly hard to care 19:40:13 And I guess that if people agree to have the small little luxury of a hotel, they can pay a daily taxi without too much thought 19:40:14 wouldn't mind paying for a cab 19:40:28 gwolf: precisely 19:40:29 we dont have a significant number of people wanting "fancy" hotels. (not really fancy, but not youth hostel) 19:40:32 but if you are fancy enough to stay in a 5 stars hotel, renting a car shouldn't be a problem 19:40:33 right; I don't think "hotel" is a requirement 19:40:36 no, I think we need to understand that people might want to pay for a room on their own 19:40:37 RichiH_ctte: I'm thinking things like "rooms set up for families", that our accommodation normally doesn't do that well 19:40:40 I think this point has a slight advantage for CPT 19:40:40 gwolf: me neither, as taxi prices seem cheap in CPT 19:40:41 I don't think that is unreasonable 19:40:46 the requirement AIUI is private accom w/ private bath 19:40:55 yeah, that is not fancy 19:41:02 I think we can do that within UCT residences 19:41:03 it is basic accommodation for many people 19:41:15 s#we dont have a significant #we do have a significant# - sigh 19:41:47 tumbleweed_cpt: which one would that be? 19:41:53 food there is a lot that cpt can do great, but was not investigated https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town/Venues/UCT_ChemEng#Accommodation 19:41:58 ok, so we agree on cpt and move on, people seem to be saying? 19:42:04 Alright, so, for people wanting to stay at a private room, there are options in both. For people wanting a bit more fancy, they will need to take a cab in CPT, but we probably don't care. 19:42:27 Tincho: https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf16/Bids/Cape_Town/Venues/UCT_ChemEng#Accommodation glenres (used to be a hotel) and all africa house 19:42:29 I'm not sure I see advantage to either side for this, it seems both are adequate 19:42:30 call for opinion? 19:42:35 * h01ger thinks this is slight advantage to MTL 19:42:43 In MTL the accom is "in the city" and probably more spread around, but also more variety. 19:42:46 though maybe its tie 19:42:46 about tied, with slight advantage for CPT 19:42:49 For me, this is a tie. 19:43:07 ok for tie as well 19:43:07 if I were to pick I'd say slight advantage CPT based on housing costs 19:43:20 vorlon: costs were in the earlier point 19:43:21 slight +CPT for me 19:43:25 tumbleweed_cpt: how many people can they host? 19:43:26 slight advantage for CPT, cost/benefit 19:43:31 I think CPT is cheaper from the prices I saw... 19:43:34 moray: too bad I'm saying it anyway 19:43:37 Alright, I'll do a split agreed 19:43:39 [1] cpt, [2] tie, [3] mtl, [4] further discussion :) 19:43:44 And these are up to date 2015, by the way 19:43:52 #agreed half on tie / half on slight CPT 19:44:02 :) 19:44:05 marga: some were also +MTL 19:44:06 #topic presentation facilities [talk spaces, not just AV equipment; including suitability for video team] 19:44:06 cpt seems cheaper, but not sure on the distances and all that 19:44:15 I didn't follow 19:44:21 Tincho: apparently 138 students in glen. dunot' know about all africa house 19:44:22 marga: moray: please #save too 19:44:30 #save 19:44:33 thanks 19:44:40 Tincho: ah, 42 bedrooms 19:44:49 tumbleweed_cpt: ah, completely misread, I thought it was <10 bedrooms :) 19:44:57 Please discuss on #debconf-discuss 19:45:05 presentation: both look fine; tie for me 19:45:15 has anyone looked at this deeply from a video team perspective? 19:45:21 same here, not sure how to evaluate if it is suitable for the video team 19:45:24 I'd rather defer to the experts 19:45:37 vorlon: well, I do wear a video team hate 19:45:40 hat 19:45:47 h01ger, tiago`, tumbleweed_cpt: You have been videoteam guys 19:45:48 but I've only looked at the cape town side 19:45:50 ...? 19:45:53 rooms which are suited for talks are suited for video 19:45:58 and obviously, everything we've looked at is suitable 19:46:01 tumbleweed_cpt: tiago`can mention in -discuss, I'll relay 19:46:04 too many talk rooms are a concern 19:46:07 h01ger: unless you're not allowed to run cables? 19:46:21 tumbleweed_cpt: so we'd have both cities covered :) 19:46:23 (which was a last-minute dust-up at DC14) 19:46:27 vorlon: or if they have big windows behind the speakers, for example 19:46:28 vorlon: yeah. 19:46:53 tiago`: both are fine to me (for video) 19:46:58 Can we agree on a tie, or does anyone see an advantage for either team? 19:47:01 tiago`: sorry for the brevity :) 19:47:06 tie 19:47:09 tiago`: but i can't see any blocker here 19:47:09 this seems a tie to me 19:47:10 ok for tie 19:47:12 tie it is. 19:47:15 #agreed tie 19:47:29 #topic travel logistics [including usefulness of nearby airports, and typical travel times for attendees] 19:47:48 so I think CPT is not out of bounds for what we've had in the past 19:48:02 especially compared with Extremadura and Bosnia, where air travel was only part of the story 19:48:15 but I do think MTL has the advantage here 19:48:18