18:35:21 <tumbleweed> #startmeeting
18:35:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Oct 28 18:35:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:35:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:35:28 <indiebio> shall we start meeting?
18:35:31 <indiebio> ah
18:35:34 <indiebio> great minds :)
18:35:44 <tumbleweed> #chair indiebio
18:35:44 <MeetBot> Current chairs: indiebio tumbleweed
18:35:47 <tumbleweed> :P
18:36:36 <tumbleweed> Agenda: http://deb.li/DC16meet1 ?
18:36:39 <indiebio> I think agenda was things like fundraising, website,  ...
18:36:46 <indiebio> looking for that email...
18:36:48 <tumbleweed> doesn't seem to have any of this week's agenda on it
18:37:02 <indiebio> and flyer
18:37:09 <tumbleweed> I have this from your email
18:37:10 <tumbleweed> There are activities going on:
18:37:11 <tumbleweed> *  Fundraising
18:37:11 <tumbleweed> * Website development - can we get a status update on that please?
18:37:11 <tumbleweed> * A4 single page Flyer in Inkscape/Scribus
18:37:12 <tumbleweed> * ?
18:37:38 <indiebio> yeah, let's go with that. and #4, General
18:38:11 <indiebio> we could also chat KanBan and in passing, if Ganneff wants titanpad or sandstorm/etherpad for this agenda
18:39:05 * superfly can contribute to website update and Kanban
18:39:22 <tumbleweed> shall we hit fundraising, then?
18:39:50 <indiebio> superfly, what times work for you? then we can do those things
18:39:58 <indiebio> like, right now, or later?
18:40:05 <superfly> right now, if possible
18:40:14 <tumbleweed> OK, so website then
18:40:19 <tumbleweed> #topic website
18:40:50 <superfly> Not a huge amount from my side I'm afraid, I've been drowning in work this side. I'm busy looking at the design guide and putting a template system together.
18:41:07 * tumbleweed has had a busy couple of weeks, too
18:41:18 <superfly> Hoping to have something to show by next Wednesday.
18:42:03 <tumbleweed> So, I have to set up the dev wafer instance. I'm not feeling too much pressure to do that, until people are working on it. But I would like to get it done before that happens
18:42:55 <tumbleweed> but once one person starts doing something, I'm sure that'll get others moving :)
18:43:01 <indiebio> from my side, we have one confirmed sponsor and I would like something up to showcase them. sothat sponsors can feel if they commit NOW they get bang for buck already.
18:43:16 <indiebio> I don't really want to do this on the static site as it duplicates work.
18:43:30 <superfly> indiebio: do you have something specific in mind?
18:43:36 <indiebio> so I do feel there's a bit of urgency, but not everything needs to be deployed all at once
18:43:59 <indiebio> I don't know how this works, superfly, but can there be a static wafer site, and a sponsor page???
18:44:02 <tumbleweed> I don't want to invest too much in the static site. But if youw ant the logo in there, I'd do that
18:44:11 <indiebio> I also don't want to annoy you guys or get in the way ...
18:44:13 <tumbleweed> indiebio: no, there can't
18:44:21 <indiebio> we don't *have* to force this
18:44:33 <indiebio> ok.
18:44:34 <tumbleweed> right, putting a logo onto the current static site should be trivial
18:44:52 <tumbleweed> if it's important. But that's not where energy should be going
18:45:06 <superfly> My goal is to get what looks like a static site but can be broken up into templates for wafer
18:45:07 <indiebio> So we can agree to put the logo on the static site, somehow, for now.
18:45:23 <indiebio> yes superfly, I think that's what I mean :)
18:45:46 <Hodgestar> tumbleweed: Who do I send my key fingerprint to again in order to get access?
18:45:55 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: Ganneff
18:46:16 <tumbleweed> indiebio: agreed
18:46:37 <indiebio> I know the wafer team don't like my deadline thing, but is there a rough outline of stuff? If we say the site should be finished by mid January, what chunks of work are we aiming for?
18:46:41 <Hodgestar> Ganneff: Is IRC fine?
18:47:00 <bremner> I'm guess gpg signed email is better
18:47:12 <tumbleweed> indiebio: in general deadlines don't work for volunteers. People do things because they see people doing them, not because there are deadlines
18:47:26 <Hodgestar> tumbleweed, Ganneff: Sent in /privmsg.
18:47:37 <indiebio> #agreed put confirmed sponsor logo(s) on static site for now to give sponsors exposure (and incentivise early commitment)
18:47:45 <Hodgestar> bremner, tumbleweed: In that case, email address?
18:47:48 <tumbleweed> but conferences have deadlines :P
18:48:01 <indiebio> tumbleweed: I see deadlines as interim, I should try get this done by this date to help other volunteers do what they need to do.
18:48:16 <bremner> Hodgestar: joerg@debconf.org
18:48:18 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I totally agree. But making that happen is a different story
18:48:25 <Hodgestar> bremner: Tx.
18:48:59 <Hodgestar> indiebio: Is a running wafer with a skin and some sponsors by the end of November a suitable goal?
18:49:08 <tumbleweed> that sounds good to me
18:49:15 <indiebio> tumbleweed: I've been keeping myself busy with sponsors to stay out of the website people's hair. But if I can help in any way, I'd like to. I would be really frustrated if it holds things back.
18:49:18 <Hodgestar> indiebio: Once wafer is up and running, anyone can enter sponsors.
18:49:20 <indiebio> Hodgestar: that would be epic!
18:49:25 <Hodgestar> (well, anyone with access to the site).
18:49:40 <Hodgestar> (well, the admin site)
18:50:17 <Hodgestar> I made a calendar entry for myself.
18:50:43 <tumbleweed> indiebio: prod me after the meeting about getting this sponsor into the static site (or superfly, I guess)
18:51:20 <tumbleweed> move on?
18:51:47 <indiebio> sorry, dogs declared WWIII on the neighbours.
18:51:50 <indiebio> yes, thanks all
18:51:58 <tumbleweed> lol
18:52:14 <indiebio> I would still want a rough outline of chunks of work required. but I will concede
18:52:30 <tumbleweed> let me see if I can outline that:
18:52:47 <superfly> Add pieces of work as cards on WeKan: https://storm.debian.net/grain/xwLN5nniW8SvT5M3r5EjmX/
18:52:48 <tumbleweed> * we need to skin our wafer instance, so that it's better than the current static site, and can replace it
18:53:07 <tumbleweed> * we need to get a dev version of the wafer site up
18:53:19 <tumbleweed> * we need to get a production version of the wafer site up
18:53:30 <tumbleweed> those are the logical steps I see, now
18:53:39 <tumbleweed> the first two can happen in either order
18:54:00 <indiebio> sounds good.
18:54:17 <tumbleweed> superfly: can't. Unauthorized
18:54:21 <indiebio> shall we move on to WeKan? that link gives me an error though
18:54:26 <tumbleweed> #topic WeKan
18:54:51 <superfly> tumbleweed: I think you need to ask larjona to give you access
18:55:27 <superfly> indiebio: OK, so the basic idea of Kanban is that things tend to have a workflow
18:55:28 <tumbleweed> being able to be public is probably a prerequisite for using it
18:55:44 <superfly> tumbleweed: OK, I'll ping larjona and see if we can organise that
18:55:47 <indiebio> superfly: you could change the access to public, I think top left
18:56:02 <indiebio> I think I'm also admin so should be able to help... let me see
18:56:31 <superfly> https://storm.debian.net/shared/o9sin5HUHhyQwlyEmQ1y2mIVQS9eNUPUDFxBcKKAAnu
18:56:35 <indiebio> ah superfly, there's also a shareable link which is different to the link you see
18:56:36 <superfly> does that work?
18:57:27 <indiebio> yes, thanks
18:57:36 <indiebio> #link WeKan https://storm.debian.net/shared/o9sin5HUHhyQwlyEmQ1y2mIVQS9eNUPUDFxBcKKAAnu
18:58:03 <indiebio> #action indiebio to prod tumbleweed after the meeting about getting this sponsor into the static site (or superfly, I guess)
18:58:56 <superfly> editable version: https://storm.debian.net/shared/wq6OxE5Mu4IkHVBjmBVH9ROgMiAgTAak_lumcsYSfDa
18:59:22 <tumbleweed> thanks. I was searching everywhere for an add button
18:59:33 <superfly> indiebio: so in this instanced I've created 3 columns or groups: Backlog, To Do, Doing and Done.
19:00:04 <superfly> To Do, Doing and Done are pretty self-explanatory, Backlog is stuff we still want to do, but probably don't need to do right now
19:00:21 <indiebio> cool. and superfly, if I want to add e.g. fundraising in there, do I just add it, or is there something separate to do?
19:00:24 <superfly> then you just kinda move things from column to column as they change status
19:00:31 <superfly> yep, just add another card
19:00:50 <tumbleweed> Pick a colour for fundraising cards
19:00:57 <tumbleweed> I'm going with blue for wafer
19:00:58 <superfly> what I miss in WeKan that Trello has is checklists in the cards. Easier to break things down into smaller pieces
19:01:09 <indiebio> #link editable version: https://storm.debian.net/shared/wq6OxE5Mu4IkHVBjmBVH9ROgMiAgTAak_lumcsYSfDa
19:01:20 <superfly> Yeah, I've kinda gone with blue for website and purple for press
19:02:07 <superfly> At work we use an SLA of 80% of stories should be done in 5 days
19:02:23 <superfly> so we have a pseudo deadline
19:02:35 <indiebio> cool
19:03:06 <superfly> (we also have more columns, with different names, but ours is focused around our development pipeline)
19:03:28 <superfly> I've just added a deadline as a comment to my stories
19:04:09 <superfly> What I like about Kanban is that you can make it as structured as you like, while the emphasis remains on getting work through the pipeline.
19:04:12 <indiebio> so this would replace the timeline wiki, or the timeline wiki would be a static version for DCN++ to learn from ... and then the agenda would also be replaced by this? i.e. we would have the weekly meetings focused on the overview?
19:04:47 <superfly> I guess you could probably do all of that if you wanted.
19:04:56 <superfly> I will definitely use it for my stuff
19:05:04 <superfly> but I think it probably depends on buy-in
19:05:12 <tumbleweed> I think the timeline is for seeing into teh far future, and static for the next DCs
19:05:27 <tumbleweed> there will always be agenda items that aren't task-related
19:06:08 <bremner> anyone know how accessible WeKan is ? it seems blank on a text browser, which is my dummy test
19:06:16 <indiebio> well, let's try it, like we did/am still doing for the etherpad, and give feedback as we go along
19:06:23 <indiebio> looks good to me
19:06:30 <superfly> bremner: sorry, WeKan is very heavily JavaScript based
19:07:20 <bremner> *shrug*. ok, I don't want to make a big deal out of it, but something to consider; accessibility more than JS per se.
19:07:33 <indiebio> There may be a bit of redundancy as people figure out what's best for them, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
19:08:53 <indiebio> Personallly, when I have to 'translate' from, e.g. WeKan to e.g. titanpad or emailing people who bluntly refuse to use something, I often pick things up I've missed, so if that's what is needed, that's ok with me.
19:09:24 <indiebio> cool. and superfly, is there a help me file or a README or something people can refer to when they're stuck?
19:10:14 <superfly> indiebio: hrm, that's a good question. Kanban is a project management methodology, so there's no doubt plenty of stuff on the web about it. For WeKan itself, let me get their details
19:10:47 <indiebio> just something to get people started, or a preferred help file. not critical
19:10:56 <superfly> https://github.com/wekan/wekan
19:11:04 <indiebio> ok, anything else to discuss here?
19:11:09 <superfly> that's got a little intro, and a screenshot showing how they use it themselves.
19:11:12 <indiebio> #link https://github.com/wekan/wekan
19:11:38 <superfly> and people can bug me too, if they want to
19:12:35 <tumbleweed> bremner: I don't think it has to be that accessible, as long as we aren't referring to it as the canonical source for everything
19:13:05 <tumbleweed> if it is just a planning tool for the people spending a lot of time on DebConf, then it isn't critical for everyone to have access to it
19:13:31 <bremner> tumbleweed: I mean accessible in the technical sense of usable by visually impaired people.
19:13:32 <superfly> What tumbleweed said :-)
19:14:06 <superfly> bremner: how does it compare to titanpad?
19:14:19 <superfly> that's also very JavaScripty
19:14:21 <tumbleweed> err apples and oranges?
19:14:53 <tumbleweed> bremner: sure, it'd be great if all tools were, but they aren't :/. Given a choice between an accessible option and a non-acessible option, obviously one picks the first
19:15:13 <indiebio> fascinating, that didn't even occur to me.
19:15:18 <tumbleweed> if the second one is free and the first isn't then, I guess obviously one picks the second :P
19:15:26 <tumbleweed> hard to say
19:15:33 <tumbleweed> depends on who is going to be using it
19:15:34 <indiebio> and work damn hard to get it there, I would think.
19:17:22 <tumbleweed> move on?
19:17:25 <indiebio> ok, so not to end this conversation, but can we move on?
19:17:30 <indiebio> great minds, again :)
19:17:35 <tumbleweed> #topic fundraising
19:17:36 <indiebio> fundraising?
19:17:39 <tumbleweed> ^5
19:18:17 <indiebio> wendar and myself have been incorporating the (local) team's input into the fundraising files
19:18:24 <indiebio> I contacted about half of them today
19:18:35 <indiebio> there is another sprint on Thursday, if anyone wants to join
19:18:49 <Hodgestar> superfly, indiebio: Can one of you add me to the WeKan board? I signed in as me (SC).
19:18:52 <indiebio> but I'm fine with people sending myself, wendar and bgupta any leads they have
19:19:08 <superfly> Hodgestar: did you use the editable link?
19:19:17 <indiebio> Hodgestar: if you use this link: https://storm.debian.net/shared/wq6OxE5Mu4IkHVBjmBVH9ROgMiAgTAak_lumcsYSfDa
19:19:22 <indiebio> you should be able to get in?
19:19:29 <Hodgestar> superfly: Yes, but I can't see myself as a person on the list of people on the board.
19:19:47 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: I think that might happen if you do something on it
19:19:48 <DLange> late o/ ... Timezones suck
19:19:52 <superfly> I had to get larjona to add me
19:20:07 <indiebio> ok, I'm trying something...
19:20:08 <tumbleweed> I didn't ask anyone to add me
19:20:10 <tumbleweed> but I'm there now
19:20:12 <indiebio> Hi DLange
19:20:21 <superfly> oh, indiebio, I've also added myself to the cards I'll be responsible for
19:20:40 <tumbleweed> Hodgestar: and so are you, now :)
19:20:42 * DLange reads backlog. Sorry for being late.
19:20:54 <indiebio> superfly: noted
19:21:06 <Hodgestar> Oh -- I needed to reload after logging in.
19:22:38 <tumbleweed> anything else to discuss on fundraising?
19:22:57 <indiebio> on the fundraising, it seems like my debconf email is slow on getting the RT out - the request tracker
19:23:17 <tumbleweed> "getting the RT out" ?
19:23:20 <indiebio> so I'm wondering if the people I send the emails too also get it so much later
19:23:44 <DLange> do we push to get RT de-spammed?
19:23:49 <indiebio> erm ... I copy in the sponsors@d.o email, and that generates a request tracker ticket that auto-responds to me
19:23:57 <tumbleweed> indiebio: ah, right
19:24:04 <indiebio> DLange: not at the moment, we just deal with it
19:24:04 <tumbleweed> indiebio: I'll bet it has greylisting
19:24:16 <indiebio> but that is happening very slowly at present, not sure why
19:24:22 <tumbleweed> what is "very slowly" ?
19:24:28 <tumbleweed> I mean, how slow
19:24:34 <indiebio> last night it took 8 hours or so
19:24:43 <indiebio> and the ones I sent today still hasn't happened
19:24:44 <tumbleweed> ok, that's more than greylisting
19:24:50 <tumbleweed> where were you sending the mail from?
19:25:07 <indiebio> I was afraid to tell Ganneff, afriad he'll take my debconf-via-gmail priviledge away
19:25:17 <tumbleweed> :P
19:25:35 <tumbleweed> that's probably the kind of thing to ask him, yes
19:25:38 <DLange> I think he hates RT nearly as much as GMail :)
19:25:41 <tumbleweed> maybe the RT has manual spam processing?
19:25:42 <indiebio> I've been learning so much but I'm not ready for an email revamp yet
19:26:10 <indiebio> bgupta gave me admin access to https://rt.debconf.org/
19:26:21 <indiebio> but I don't know if I can use that to do anything
19:26:36 <tamo> cutting in but need to go soon, do you wnat the entire Table on teh Flyer?
19:26:42 <indiebio> other than view the cards. this only happened last night so I'm still learning
19:26:49 <indiebio> tamo: yes please
19:27:38 <tumbleweed> #topic flyer
19:27:40 <tamo> Ok there is also alot of wording, we are running out of space
19:28:12 <tamo> so is it not better to limit some of the items of the table as they did for Debconf15
19:28:39 <tamo> the flyer is A4
19:28:49 <DLange> I'd say cut the blurb short, we have the full brochure for more reading pleasure
19:29:12 <tamo> DLange: Hi! ok can that then be relooked at?
19:29:33 <tamo> prehaps edited
19:29:39 <DLange> Hi Tamo, sure. Can you generate a preview for us?
19:29:57 <DLange> So we see where you run over the bounding boxes...?
19:30:49 <indiebio> tamo: do what you see best, and save the inkscape file to git/DropBox, then we can help. This one-pager should be easier to work on together
19:31:12 <tamo> DLange: yes I'll upload it tonight
19:31:23 <DLange> great, thank you!
19:31:48 <tamo> indiebio: yes into Dropbox I can't do anything with Git becuase I have a file in Push that is blocking everything
19:32:03 <tamo> DLange: it is in Inkscape so easier
19:32:07 <tumbleweed> :)
19:32:08 <indiebio> tamo: ok. maybe you need to do a pull first?
19:32:16 <tamo> NOpe
19:32:21 <DLange> tamo: coolio!
19:32:58 <indiebio> tamo: DropBox is fine
19:33:10 <tamo> indiebio: no I cancelled somthing and it is stuck in push and not going through really frustrating\
19:33:24 <indiebio> argh. sorry to hear that tamo
19:33:40 <tumbleweed> on the command line, the solution to that is git reset HEAD^
19:33:49 <tamo> tumbleweed: ??
19:34:06 <tumbleweed> if you've committed something, and want to *un* commit it
19:34:11 <bremner> perhaps we could fix tamo's git after the meeting?
19:34:18 <tumbleweed> yes, thanks
19:34:25 <tumbleweed> I think the meeting is a bout wrapped up, anyway?
19:34:26 <tamo> bremner: yes good idea
19:34:31 <tumbleweed> any other business?
19:34:39 <indiebio> yeah, there's a General for anything else ...
19:34:43 * edrz reads meeting ... now that it's over. sorry I couldn't get back earlier
19:34:56 <tumbleweed> #topic General
19:34:58 <indiebio> I was wondering, from experienced DebConfers ... is there anything we're missing?
19:34:59 <tumbleweed> Have a General
19:35:23 <indiebio> (apart from the obvious, sign the accommodation contract and final-finalise the dates....)
19:35:24 <bremner> I've been wondering about setting up a seperate bursaries repo for bursaries data
19:35:55 <tumbleweed> where is that current? dc-team?
19:36:00 <tumbleweed> *currently
19:36:00 <bremner> dunno what people think about that, but it's a bit odd to have reviews etc accessible to the whole team
19:36:00 <indiebio> hi edrz :)
19:36:11 <tumbleweed> bremner: +1 from me
19:36:14 <bremner> tumbleweed: currently it's in the mailing list archives
19:36:15 <edrz> indiebio: hello.
19:36:18 <indiebio> I don't have an opinion on it
19:36:21 <bremner> which is obviously not ideal.
19:36:40 <bremner> I'm not planning on doing this immediately, just throwing it out for comment.
19:37:36 <bremner> or lack there of ;)
19:37:37 <tumbleweed> discussions about individuals are something I would want to keep restricted to the people who need to take part in them
19:37:59 <tumbleweed> I can't see anyone else needing to see any of that
19:38:44 <indiebio> I would agree, so yes, go ahead bremner :)
19:39:07 <indiebio> if someone has an unlikely objection we could reverse it, yes?
19:39:07 <bremner> yeah, ok. maybe if Ganneff reads backlog we can discuss the technical issues
19:39:17 <bremner> indiebio: yeah, nothing irreversable
19:39:40 <DLange> I think yoh have a alioth group already, not?
19:39:59 <bremner> not to my knowledge, but it's easy to make one
19:40:30 <DLange> yeah, you'd need it for the git and then people you grant alioth group access can access the git
19:40:48 <bremner> yeah. that makes sense.
19:41:05 <bremner> I have recently done that for a packaging team.
19:41:24 <bremner> alright, technicallities don't need to bore the rest of you...
19:41:36 <tumbleweed> another call for any other business?
19:41:51 <DLange> perhaps name it dc-bursaries so we stay within the naming convention (dc-team, dc-data, ...)
19:41:52 <tamo> Yes V3 of the brochure on titanpad
19:42:06 <tamo> Are all the changes in Orange?
19:42:28 <tamo> It seems as though there are old ones and finding it difficult to see what is new
19:43:27 <indiebio> tamo: there's still discussion needed, these are not final, I wouldn't stress about it now
19:43:29 <tumbleweed> what titanpad are you looking at? I was assuming http://deb.li/flyer16 but there's no orange on there
19:43:39 <tamo> https://titanpad.com/DC16-sponsorship-brochure-tiny-issues
19:43:40 <indiebio> no, brochure now, tumbleweed
19:43:45 <tumbleweed> oh brochure
19:44:35 <tamo> Ok thanks if when the discussion is resolved you could maybe do the date and put the changes under the date, so I know what is new etc
19:44:41 <tumbleweed> indiebio: you want replies to the "advice needed" things?
19:44:48 <indiebio> so brochure action needed is from the team, it's ideological things I have no idea about
19:44:55 <indiebio> yes please tumbleweed
19:45:09 <tumbleweed> I'll do a pass
19:45:14 <indiebio> (and I got the idea these points were from the more ... eh ... pedantic ... people?)
19:45:17 <DLange> I think the comments are all new, may be not all to be considered but new
19:45:25 <indiebio> yes
19:45:34 <indiebio> 99% new
19:46:02 <DLange> so shall we quickly go through the questions?
19:46:22 <indiebio> tamo: I will do, I will neaten it up to be really simple. page number, paragraph and what needs to be replaced
19:46:22 <DLange> Because "team" may mean nobody does it otherwise :)
19:46:53 <indiebio> can do, I don't think there's anything to be discussed, so if people want to leave they can
19:46:58 <indiebio> *else
19:47:02 <tamo> indiebio: thanks that would be a big help, then not so confusing
19:47:43 <indiebio> OK DLange, let's do it
19:47:57 <indiebio> see you on the titanpad
19:50:50 <indiebio> do we want to endmeeting here?
19:50:53 <indiebio> tumbleweed: ^
19:51:48 <tumbleweed> #endmeeting