13:59:04 #startmeeting 13:59:04 Meeting started Thu Apr 12 13:59:04 2018 UTC. The chair is paulliu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:59:04 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 13:59:10 #chair paulliu 13:59:10 Current chairs: paulliu 13:59:17 #topic 0 - Roll call 13:59:21 o/ 13:59:30 sort-of-o/ 13:59:37 Please say hi and check the meeting agenda at: https://deb.li/3OYuV 13:59:46 hi 14:00:12 I'm proctoring an exam, so I might not being paying complete attention 14:00:54 ok. no prob. We can try a bit slowing down. :) 14:01:00 no 14:01:13 meetings are long enough as it is 14:01:14 yeah, don't wait for me 14:01:30 #topic 1 - Open Day 14:01:30 14:01:39 #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/OpenDay 14:01:56 * Rhonda . o O ( MeetBot's time is off ) 14:02:23 do we have anyone to talk about openday? 14:02:31 So for the openday, we've already have some sessions scheduled. 14:03:01 11 open slots left. 14:03:08 The one confirmed is by Audrey Tang. 14:03:30 As I remember, we have 6 sessions now. 14:03:33 And we are still working on the rest. 14:04:04 Yeah. But not scheduled yet. Need schedule it. 14:04:19 right now, who is in charge of open day? 14:04:57 need a leader to schedule session 14:05:04 ok. 14:05:21 May I hook in there shortly? 14:05:43 sure 14:06:35 #action paulliu find a leader for charging the open day. 14:06:39 I've received a mail from imacat about the Gender forum, and I think we are moving forward with that part. I won't confirm it in that sense, but contact has been established and I think we'll manage to do something for that. 14:07:00 #action Rhonda to be the leader shortly. 14:07:00 Rhonda: awesome! 14:07:04 paulliu: no 14:07:21 Kudos to Tincho for mediating on that grounds. 14:07:33 Rhonda is only talking about the *Gender forum* session, not Open Day in general 14:07:40 Got it. 14:07:42 #undo 14:07:42 Removing item from minutes: 14:07:44 :) 14:07:51 * medicalwei[m] ... 14:08:15 Right, I mentioned the gender forum, but thanks for putting emphasis on that again, olasd :) 14:09:08 We can make sure what format and what topic should we have in the gender forum. 14:09:28 I trust Rhonda and imacat to come up with something sensible 14:10:11 ok. 14:10:41 Also I mentioned it to be Diversity and Inclusion forum? 14:10:43 So Rhonda needs to reconfirm the format and topic of that session? 14:10:49 do you intend to do communication around open day? and if so, when and where? 14:11:14 (this would then become a deadline for the schedule to be published) 14:13:44 where is the deadline of open day session? 14:13:48 when 14:13:49 I think we can still wait for 1-2 weeks for the conscious. 14:13:57 that was my question, yes 14:14:39 is May 4 okay? 14:14:54 as the deadline? 14:15:19 The communication is mainly on the local team meetups and the #debconf18-taiwan channel 14:15:25 Should be ok. May 4th (Friday). 14:15:45 So we can discuss or do something at the last minute on May 3rd. 14:16:15 good for me 14:16:21 when is the next local meeting? 4/19? 14:16:29 Yes. 14:17:12 medicalwei[m]: I was talking about advertising the Open Day to the local community 14:17:26 0/, my teacher is rambling so I guess I can try following the meeting today 14:17:39 ok. Let's move to the next topic. 14:17:54 #topic 2 - Fundraising 14:19:07 #link https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/sponsors/sponsors/blob/master/dc18/fulfillment/jobfair 14:19:21 olasd: we will try several contacts on the mailing lists, forums and chat rooms. 14:21:21 No updates from fundraising this week. 14:21:49 #topic 3 - Venue 14:22:26 1. Lamby needs a office 14:22:49 There's also a topic that might missed. If someone wants to hack and smoke together. It seems to me that we currently cannot do that right now? 14:22:50 And using part of the VIP room seems to be a bad south on? 14:22:54 *solution 14:22:57 There is smoking area in the campus. 14:23:04 But no chairs and tables. 14:23:17 the requirement of the office? 14:23:21 a smoking area with tables and internet would be quite important to some of our attendees 14:23:28 can we put some tables there? 14:23:37 + umbrellas 14:24:08 + internet 14:24:14 due to regulation, smoking areas are limited to 3 outdoor spaces only 14:24:27 do people actually follow that regulation? 14:24:36 sure, the idea is making one of them attractive 14:25:03 if there isn't such a place, the security guards will have a hard time forcing people to respect that rule... 14:25:26 tumbleweed, I would say yes... 14:25:47 Also vapes is regulated too. 14:26:28 In Hsinchu (not the other part of Taiwan) vapes and e-cigs are regulated as same as cigarettes. 14:27:06 * h01ger wonders how pollo knows 14:27:09 * medicalwei[m] doesn't smoke but feels bad about the smoke regulation now. 14:27:34 I think it is because we are in the campus. If outside of the campus, open area is able to do everything. 14:27:50 So, for this topic we might need further investment. 14:27:59 Well we are educated to keep away from lighted cigarette. 14:28:06 if we are able to transform one of the official smoking spaces to be a nice outdoor hacklab I think it'll be fine 14:28:36 Let me check if we can do it. 14:28:43 rain might be an issue 14:28:57 for equipment 14:28:58 #action czchen will check if it is possible to transform official smoking space to outdoor hacklab. 14:28:59 Please ask if we can bring tables and umbrellas (power sockets nice to have) to the smoking spot. 14:29:08 very large umbrellas and plastic sheets? 14:29:21 Isn't this meeting supposed to start at 22:30? 14:29:40 jidanni (IRC): someone wrote it on the topic to be 22:00 14:29:45 And I don't know if it is me to blame. 14:30:00 Well I am staring now. I see "Need a man who charges for the open day ?" 14:30:06 what does that me. 14:30:10 what does that mean? 14:30:24 please try to follow the agenda / current topic 14:30:39 *Who chairs the open day 14:30:51 OH! 14:30:57 now is discussing Venue 14:31:37 Yeah. So back to the topic, what is the office for Lamby? 14:31:59 I need to know the requirement of Lamby office, is it 24h or ? 14:32:20 Current venue usage is in https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc18/blob/master/venue/NCTU.md 14:32:30 has the DPL really requested "an office" or does that spawn from highvoltage's request for a media room? 14:32:36 office hours is probably fine, but if we had a key and could use it any time, that would be nice 14:32:51 pollo: it's something that would always be useful 14:33:01 (remember we had to steal the NOC for some meetings at DC17) 14:33:01 So a dedicated room with key? 14:33:14 sure, let's just call it something else :p 14:33:31 czchen: I'll check 14:33:51 Yes. I was suggesting using part of the VIP room (which is a living room and meeting room separated by a wall) 14:33:53 tumbleweed: that was the point of having an orga room separate from front desk and noc 14:33:57 originally 14:34:12 And another part to be childcare which sounds weird (? 14:34:15 yeah - people often want to have discussions with the DPL, too 14:34:41 #action czchen will check the room for Lamby office. 14:35:00 he's considering having some "office hours" in a defined room somewhere 14:35:08 Also I am not sure if we need additional rooms for unconference? 14:35:19 Don't blame me. I see "Global team meeting 週四 22:30 (UTC+8)" 14:36:10 We still have some rooms available for unconferences, but not many. 14:36:48 jidanni: don't worry. I'll respin the open day topic at last. 14:36:56 OK 14:37:13 That's ok 14:37:35 czchen: thanks. That answers anyway. :) 14:38:00 czchen: two or three small (20-30 people) rooms for BoF/unconference sessions should be enough 14:38:07 +1 14:38:23 (Also fundraising since szlin has come) 14:38:56 #action czchen will check rooms for unconferences, (2~3 rooms , 20-30 ppl) 14:39:20 ok. great. Let's move to the next topic. 14:39:43 #topic 4 - Video team 14:40:14 has anyone had time to work on getting us servers and desktop PCs? 14:40:18 So for borrowing computers for video team. we can try to contact III.org. As a kind of sponsoring. 14:40:48 We might need to request renting servers and computers from III. 14:40:50 Do we need to borrow computers from NCTU? 14:41:02 I don't know if the topic should belong to debconf-sponsors 14:41:12 it would be best if we could get servers on the LAN 14:41:46 pollo: we can have VLAN setup in the campus network 14:41:58 So we also need to check LAN for NCTU? 14:42:18 #action czchen will check LAN / wifi network in venue. 14:42:25 medicalwei[m]: that just means that if you rent servers, getting tower servers instead of rackmounted ones might be a better idea 14:42:32 LAN and WLAN (to see if we can get through the captive portal) 14:43:25 you might always ask NCTU if you can use their server rooms racks, but normally they are not keen on that 14:43:27 Not that clear to me. So where do we put the server? Anywhere with a ethernet hole? 14:44:24 Or people have to operate the server in front of a terminal? 14:45:34 I think we already have a room for that. 14:45:54 just make sure video lan is seperated from the other 'end-users'. 14:46:04 ok. 14:46:05 we'll be happy with putting them anywhere that has enough connectivity 14:46:08 And we can just put it in that room and hook it on the LAN. 14:46:09 so in case someone breaks LAN, don't break video streaming 14:46:13 at dc17, we used a classroom, for almost everything 14:46:29 (it had 4 gigabit uplinks, I think) 14:46:32 We should have 1Gbps throughout the campus. 14:46:49 tumbleweed: yeah, in the end we trunked 4 Gbps uplinks 14:46:52 when we can put things in a server room, with even better connecitivity (10G) we usually would 14:47:00 Do we need 4Gbps trunk? 14:47:12 don't *need* but it's useful 14:47:17 medicalwei[m]: more important than 4x1GB uplink: cooling. 14:47:20 we'll use whatever we can get :) 14:48:16 zobel: okay that's a real problem. 14:48:33 it's really not 14:48:42 ok. Got it. I thought we need to talk to Computer Center to let us put some servers inside. 14:48:58 If talking of racks. 14:49:15 Or whether computer club can help us for that matter 14:49:34 medicalwei[m]: yeah. CCCA should be helpful. 14:50:00 if the room is too small, the room will heat up too much. 14:50:10 what we need is someone who will collect the requirements and make them happen 14:50:21 we don't need 12 people to discuss it for 3 hours during the meeting 14:50:46 paulliu: CCCA was gone. There is only NBA now. Not sure if we can contact NBA for help. 14:50:47 we have them collected from previous yeras 14:51:14 tumbleweed: we still need someone on-site to have the info and make things happen 14:51:29 I think I shared the dc16 requirements with zumbi 14:52:08 he was going to figure out who to talk to about them 14:52:45 ok. 14:53:06 Seems all the infos are here. Let's move to next topic. 14:53:11 czchen: then it became CCCA 14:53:25 #topic 5 - Swags 14:53:34 I still don't know who will make the hardware requirements happen 14:53:42 I think we have to give up towels 14:54:01 olasd: I will check the LAN / wifi part, but not hardware 14:54:03 presumably we can sell some towels at FD (like dc16) 14:54:05 #action medicalwei to negotiate with NCTU and III for computer hardware 14:54:13 olasd: I'll check with zumbi first. And we'll check with III for computers. that's it. 14:54:14 Sorry. 14:54:35 good, thanks 14:54:48 paulliu: Don't forget to use #action so that people know what will be done after meeting. 14:54:57 If everything fails we can buy computers and resell them 14:54:59 czchen: yeah. 14:55:23 Sorry if that sounds extreme. 14:55:25 #action paulliu check with zumbi for dc16 hardware requirements. 14:56:13 if that doesn't work, talk to me (or the video team) and we can work on them again 14:57:13 ok. So let's focus on the topic of Swags. 14:57:24 medicalwei[m]: telling people to bring a towel for on-site accommodation is fine 14:57:32 we had people bring a sleeping bag last year... 14:57:39 1. I have to give up customized towels 14:58:22 Dormatory no towels? 7-11 has towels. 14:58:23 The minimum order quantity is too high for us, otherwise the towels will be too small 14:58:24 regular towels is able to be bought inside the campus anyway. 14:58:36 So I suggest to request people bring 2 towels 14:58:53 what's happening with the t-shirts? last I heard from it you were still looking for the model to buy 14:59:09 Bad ideal to tell people to bring towels. Makes Taiwan look bad. 14:59:24 why should attendees bring 2 towels? also: why do we care? we also dont tell them to bring toothbrushes 14:59:30 Waiting for sponsors list and actual quantity and designs. 15:00:02 h01ger: people can expect towels to be included in the room amenities; toothbrushes less so 15:00:23 I think we just need to info that there is no towel, toothbrush, ... 15:00:24 yes, tell peolpe what will be there and what they need to bring 15:00:28 no idea why 2 towels either :) 15:00:30 medicalwei[m]: do you have someone who is working on the banner designs? 15:00:48 Probably me 15:01:28 * medicalwei[m] is changing the connection to the IRC. Is home. 15:01:38 the minimum is podium banners for the sponsors, but large hanging banners and standing ones might be nice too 15:02:20 Do we need to ask sponsor to bring their banner? Or we need to design one for them? 15:02:30 I am planned for both 15:02:33 medicalwei[m]: btw, just curious. Why your towel is so expensive. Can we just order it from China? The minimum requirements and unit price is much cheaper and smaller. 15:03:31 czchen: the platinum sponsorship deal comes with podium banners. The rest is up to you 15:03:47 paulliu: that's one way to go. I didn't quote prices from China. 15:04:05 for the job fair sponsors like to bring stuff, but you don't have to tell them to do so 15:04:46 medicalwei, ok. Let's discuss it later. 15:05:13 Also I am doing badge design 15:05:19 Who will in charge of banner? 15:05:23 Which I need it to integrate it into wafer. 15:05:26 czchen: me 15:05:36 Put an action? 15:06:02 Not now. The list of sponsors is not settled down? 15:06:29 doesn't hurt to make a draft template before all sponsors are in 15:06:34 rather than do it last minute 15:06:37 well, you should know where you will print them, how much time it will take, what will be the cost, etc. 15:06:38 ok. We should have a due date for this, right? 15:07:43 pollo: I did put these into estimation, during listing budgets 15:08:07 But I then removed it since that's probably included in the sponsorship fulfillment budget. 15:08:17 czchen: [re DPL office]: yes, he'd really like to have after hours access 15:08:35 tumbleweed: So it will be 24h room right? 15:08:38 yes 15:09:49 #action medicalwei to propose designs of podium display and banner 15:10:28 ok. Let's move on. 15:10:46 #topic 6 - Catering 15:11:10 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtZYOJtkz9o4pGB9_xDgrF92bKyW9fEWsVQE8DVtmLQ/edit 15:11:10 #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jtZYOJtkz9o4pGB9_xDgrF92bKyW9fEWsVQE8DVtmLQ/edit 15:11:32 szlin: Do we need to increase budget? 15:11:59 It looks like 3 + 5 + 5 USD is difficult right now? 15:12:07 yes, 15:12:30 Any proposed budget per person per day? 15:12:37 we will propose new budget in these days 15:12:37 Wait that's the price we are charging from the attendees 15:13:02 We charge 3 + 5 + 5, but we can have different budgert 15:13:16 The problem is that the requirements is probably higher than Taiwanese conferences 15:13:18 They don't need to be the same. 15:14:08 The one in charge of the catering suggested to have bento boxes for lunch. 15:14:44 Which we think to be bad for environment while we think it can be the solution fitting our budgets. 15:16:29 There is no environment related information in the link ? 15:17:10 szlin: Could you help to get the new budget estimation for catering? 15:17:14 is it still helping with the budget if you have to get more bentos / bigger bentos to feed the debianites? (no idea on the price difference) 15:17:18 ? 15:17:36 czchen: sure. I will discuss with 4cat 15:17:50 I was thinking about buffet... 15:18:10 #action szlin will help to come out a new budget estimation for catering. 15:18:27 medicalwei: I think that can be discussed offline? 15:18:30 For environment we need further information. Like recycling the box. 15:18:33 Ok. 15:18:53 yeah. Discussed offline. 15:19:14 Currently AndrewLee and szlin are in charge of catering, if you have any idea, please contact them offline. 15:19:37 next topic? 15:19:41 #topic 7 - Budgets 15:20:27 I listed budgets to DPL and debconf-team list last Saturday. 15:20:36 If anyone has problem please reply to the list 15:20:37 Next 15:21:01 #topic 8 - Day Trips 15:21:12 medicalwei: link of budget ? 15:22:03 #link https://lists.debian.org/debconf-team/2018/04/msg00007.html 15:22:07 Is 258+10 enough spaces for DayTrip? 15:22:54 258 + 10 people ? 15:22:59 yes. 15:23:06 For Trip A, right? 15:23:14 I think that's quite enough. 15:23:15 A 258, 10 B. 15:23:31 OK then we should not create any more daytrips. 15:23:58 Then I will remove C, D, E extra possiblities. 15:23:59 #link https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/DayTrip 15:24:12 Don't remove C? 15:24:57 Just keep it as is, maybe people want to select C, D, E. 15:25:05 OK. 15:25:55 Because C is totally free of charge so I think someone would like to do it. 15:26:09 OK great. 15:26:53 ok. For Trip A, still need group leaders. But wen is helping on asking communities for help. 15:27:13 #topic 9 - Accommodations 15:27:19 Good. Leaders need to speak Chinese and English. 15:27:21 #action wen to find more people for day trip leaders 15:28:15 Someone requested to sleep alone in a room 15:28:28 And willing to pay extra fees 15:28:34 Do we accept such requests? 15:28:49 are there excess rooms? 15:28:50 * medicalwei has no objections 15:29:10 if you offer that, at the price of the accomm, a lot of people will want it too 15:29:11 We have 600 beds in dorm, and I am not sure how many we will use. 15:29:23 I think we should sponsor as many people as possible. If there's still room left, we then can charge it. 15:29:30 I think we overestimated the attendees 15:29:41 150 rooms 15:29:43 paulliu: I agree in principle, but people need to book accomodation soonish 15:29:57 We can still find local attendees to fill our rooms. 15:30:24 there's also the question of putting some people 2 per room if there are excess rooms 15:30:25 so what's the current number of registered attendees? 15:30:33 paulliu: moment 15:31:02 It is in summer vacation, we can try to fill with students who is interested in open source. 15:31:14 Attendees: 246 have started registering 15:31:37 So 400 is actually a reasonable number 15:31:48 Why daytrip only has 20 people sign up?!?!?! 15:31:49 we had 120 bursary requests yesterday, 143 today 15:32:05 That would make us nervous. 15:32:10 jidanni: people register for day trips 1 or 2 week before the conf normally 15:32:19 or not at all 15:32:49 * medicalwei notes, to ask olasd about if bursaries budget is sufficient. 15:32:59 156 people have registered for accommodation 15:33:03 Well I have to return empty slots to the companies we visit two months in advance. 15:33:11 * DLange is slightly confused the meetings already running, did we move earlier or is my TZ math off? 15:33:14 now is accomodation talk 15:33:21 DLange: your tz math is off 15:33:41 Yes your TZ is 1 hour off. 15:33:49 hm...thanks 15:33:57 so, for now, most everyone gets a room to themselves 15:34:27 The companies / organizations I arrainged with do not deal with "two weeks advance flexibiltiy". 15:34:46 jidanni: Please. Agenda. Follow. 15:35:21 So do we need to decide if we want attendee to pay extra for a single room right now? 15:35:31 I think we need to fill with local people. 15:35:55 do we want 600 people at debconf? 15:36:01 then I think we shall delay the decision, any try to find more local people first. 15:36:03 why? are we paying more if less people are in the rooms? 15:37:05 bremner: Probability not 600, but I do want more local people to join so that we can enlarge local open source communities. 15:37:06 Might *gain* more if more people attends. 15:37:19 olasd: we are talking about cases that some wants their privacy. 15:37:50 czchen: I suggest first setting a reasonable target, then figuring out how many "spare" rooms there are 15:39:01 bremner: okay, let me check this one 15:39:25 #action czchen will estimate reasonable target attendees, and figure out how many "spare" rooms. 15:39:38 czchen: thanks. 15:39:53 Next topic? 15:39:58 And sleeping bags: will order once registration is closed? 15:40:07 sleeping bags ? 15:40:24 Yes. Dorms don't include linens 15:40:30 Yeah. Because the bed is made by wood. Need some linen. 15:40:47 what about mattress? 15:40:54 or foam pad or equivalent? 15:41:03 Another option to go, though more expensive 15:41:23 so people will sleep in bags on wood? sounds uncomfortable 15:41:30 I mean, by renting them. 15:41:31 what do students sleep on in these beds? 15:41:46 DLange: they bring their own mattresses 15:42:16 then we should have mattresses, too 15:42:28 so it's only a bedframe? 15:42:33 I can help to check if NCTU will provide sleeping bag, as it is listed in original sheet sent by NCTU. 15:42:39 pollo: yes 15:42:46 #action czchen will check if NCTU will provide sleeping bag or not. 15:42:50 czchen: thanks 15:43:12 No other issues from me on this topic 15:43:17 If there is no sleeping bag, I think the easiest solution is to ask attendee to bring one. 15:43:20 and whether we can rent mattresses from them as well or find a different source 15:43:30 (szlin is afk right now.) 15:43:39 can't have people bring a mattress in via air plane 15:43:46 DLange: I can also check with NCTU about mattresses. 15:43:51 thanks 15:44:05 #action czchen will check if NCTU will provide sleeping bag / matresses or not. 15:44:37 ok. Let's re-spin the topics. For those who coming here late. 15:44:40 "air" mattresses can be brought in planes 15:44:51 paulliu: skip the fundraising 15:44:56 * bremner sneaks out of the meeting. 15:45:04 #topic 1 - Open Day 15:45:33 So who will be the openday big speaker> Bdale? 15:45:51 .oO(big speaker... bdale) 15:46:08 Open Day Opening session. 15:46:35 Grand opener person. 15:47:39 9:20-9:50. 15:47:54 should this really be discussed during the meeting? 15:48:07 (FWIW a sleeping bag is NOT a proper replacement for a mattress :( ) 15:48:11 Just please start thinking about it. 15:48:17 So, who'd like to be the chairperson of the openday. 15:48:56 How about medicalwei? 15:48:59 I think we shall have open day lead in https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/TeamRoles, and they can decide the rest. 15:49:17 * medicalwei is not a good person to chair the open day. 15:49:18 Yes 15:49:21 (hello BTW :) ) 15:49:34 We don't need to decide it rn. 15:49:47 OK. 15:50:02 But it is something to keep in mind. We do need somebody to become a chairperson of the openday soonish™ 15:50:26 We just need to figure out who will be the lead of open day offline, and they shall decide the rest. 15:50:26 Not me. I am doo-doo. 15:51:20 do we need a local person for the open day chair? 15:51:41 zobel: probably. Half of the sessions are in Chinese 15:51:48 Local seems best. 15:51:49 Or most of it 15:52:21 I am only talking about 9:20-9:50. 15:52:30 k 15:53:10 https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf18/OpenDay 15:53:22 Sorry but my mom is hurrying me to sleep 15:53:39 :P 15:54:10 next topic? 15:54:29 DayTrip 15:54:42 ok. 15:54:50 #10 - Miscellaneous 15:55:01 I will return empty slots on 5/31 to the companies /organizations. 15:55:03 #topic 10 - Miscellaneous 15:55:10