17:59:09 #startmeeting DebConf Video Team weekly meeting 17:59:09 Meeting started Tue Nov 24 17:59:09 2020 UTC. The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:09 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:13 #topic Roll Call 17:59:21 Say hi if you're here for the meeting 17:59:24 #link http://deb.li/oNCD Agenda 17:59:44 0/ 17:59:46 hi o/ 18:00:07 hi 18:00:28 Glad the brazil video team could make it :) 18:00:43 #topic MDCO2 - Video Encoding and publishing 18:01:03 I've fixed up 3 videos yesterday, and one more in progress now 18:01:19 I think when this one lands, we're done 18:01:25 yay! 18:01:25 assuming they pass final review 18:01:39 I guess you'll publish to YT and PT afterwards? 18:01:51 have ve finished trickle-publising on YT for DC20? 18:01:52 yeah 18:02:01 no, still quite a lot of those left 18:02:06 heh 18:02:16 we can do these in parallel or just wait for dc20 to finish 18:02:31 DC20 is up to: 2020-08-25 22:00:00 18:02:57 last day was 29th 18:03:19 sreview=> SELECT id, title, apologynote FROM talks WHERE event=8 and apologynote IS NOT NULL; id | title | apologynote 18:03:23 -----+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 318 | Open Source Game Achievements | Apologies, the speaker's camera is quite choppy due to a bad network connection. 346 | YIRL engine presentation | Apologies for the poor audio quality. 18:03:28 (2 rows) 18:03:30 urgh, badly formatted paste 18:03:35 318 | Open Source Game Achievements | Apologies, the speaker's camera is quite choppy due to a bad network connection. 18:03:39 346 | YIRL engine presentation | Apologies for the poor audio quality. 18:03:48 those are the unfixables that still have apology notes 18:04:12 (btw, the text formatting on that apology note is *really* weird 18:04:23 yeah 18:04:47 highvoltage: not sure if you want to re-run those with better looking apology notes :P 18:04:48 but it doesn't look that out of place with the background we used 18:04:57 right, it almost looks intentional 18:05:27 #topic MDCO2 - Feedback 18:05:36 thoughts on how things went? 18:06:07 very well I thought 18:06:13 yeah 18:06:18 I think it went well, but as I've mentioned before (we have a topic for that), I'm not happy with the jitsi-pad-share quality 18:06:21 no serious screw-ups 18:06:25 the Firefox bug was unfortunate 18:06:32 nothing broke *too* badly, except firefoxes, yes 18:06:47 things I think we could improve: 18:06:57 o/ 18:07:00 (sorry I'm late) 18:07:19 there were some talks that were broken in pre-recording. This maybe could have been picked up with more stringent review. But some of those were last-minute video submissions, so 18:07:37 It seems some speakers should have been more strongly encouraged to pre-record 18:07:57 Ideally, we should have caught the firefox problems in test calls 18:08:50 The idea of using SReview for uploads is that it allows normalization of prerecordings to a certain standard codec, which *should* reduce these kinds of surprises 18:08:59 wouter: the problem wasn't codecs 18:09:07 one of the talks had clipped audio 18:09:08 we could try to go back to that too? I can disable bs1770gain SReview-wide if needs be :) 18:09:17 highvoltage tried to clean it up in an audio editor, and it helped a bit 18:09:20 but it's still awful 18:09:23 tumbleweed: no, but we did have issues with a video having red mist 18:09:36 which I think was a codec issue 18:09:47 yeah, maybe 18:09:53 I'm not saying it will fix everything, but it should reduce surprises? or am I being silly here? 18:09:56 letting the speaker see a preview of what we're going to play could solve that 18:10:01 but only if they see it and sign off on it 18:10:06 right 18:10:58 BTW, wouter, I dug into that encoding issue more 18:11:02 it seems specific to that one video 18:11:13 I'll file an upstream bug 18:11:19 yeah, I haven't yet had time to look at it in depth 18:11:25 should we recomend to use Chrome/Chromium for MDCO-BR ? 18:11:26 I suspect color encoding confusion somewhere 18:11:43 phls: yes 18:11:50 pollo, ok 18:11:59 Chrome also lets you share a specific tab, and seems to hide the window decoration better than FF 18:12:04 wouter: my analysis: https://storm.debian.net/shared/zwpAKwkxwMdtKlBri-7224u9U96VDryz7iw4KmKDp86 18:12:12 wouter: test files in ~sreview/tmp/yirl/ 18:12:13 are we sure Firefox is causing issues? I thought those were fixed? 18:12:21 wouter: yes, we are 18:12:30 it's a new bug 18:12:34 OIC 18:13:10 sharing a tab from chrome is also convenient, because it can be backgrounded (assuming you only *need* to share one tab) 18:13:26 shall we move on? 18:13:38 yup 18:13:44 +1 18:14:05 #topic mdcobr2020 - maintenance loop 18:14:20 so, these are a list of topics of things we need for mdco2br 18:14:55 I think phls gave highvoltage the SVGs needed and the plan was for him to generate the maintenance loop? 18:15:04 OK 18:15:07 yes 18:15:12 #action highvoltage to generate a maintenance loop 18:15:19 #topic title slides 18:15:27 same for that :) 18:15:33 #action highvoltage to generate title slides 18:15:38 I could do it too 18:15:48 #topic jitsi & etherpad links 18:15:53 but then I guess if highvoltage is already going to work on it, meh 18:16:13 terceiro: are you guys going to pre-generate jitsi and etherpad links like we did for DC20 and mdco2? 18:16:24 are we considering going back to the vnc etherpad stuff? 18:16:32 wouter: later in the agenda 18:16:34 (or is that for a later subject perhaps) 18:16:36 right :) 18:16:41 tumbleweed: I think we probably should 18:16:44 I can do that later today 18:16:48 and if possible, don't used "mdcobr-" at the beginning of the etherpad slugs :) 18:17:05 pollo didn't like that prefix for mdco2 :) 18:17:11 pollo: you want the same 32-character slug, though? 18:17:20 I don't mind the length 18:17:33 OK 18:17:42 FWIW I will just cargo cult the url patterns from mdco2 18:17:46 #action terceiro to pre-generate links 18:17:49 minus the hated prefix 18:17:53 +1 18:17:55 heh 18:18:08 you'll also want to set up a video team group / something like that 18:18:18 and grant them "view all talks" access 18:18:29 so that they can see the jitsi links 18:18:33 ack 18:18:47 #topic OBS 18:18:56 Sorry in late 18:19:04 is highvoltage helping out with OBS setup? 18:19:16 I think he started playing around already yes 18:19:28 OK, without him here, probably nothing to discuss, then 18:19:49 #topic mdcobr2020 - grabber machine 18:20:07 we found that for some of our mdco2 volunteers, sharing etherpad via jitsi was impossible on their machines 18:20:15 so, maybe it's a good idea to bring back the VNC grabber machine 18:20:25 please remember me, what is the grabber machine? 18:20:28 and even with a good internet connection, the result is full of artifacts 18:20:37 phls: the machine we use to show the etherpad 18:20:41 ok 18:20:44 pollo: it's basically just a desktop computer in the cloud, that feeds screen capture to voctomix 18:20:50 phls: for mdco2 we told talkmeisters to do it on their machine, but that had issues 18:21:01 tha grabber vm felt a bit clunky to me during dc20 18:21:06 it is 18:21:07 Yeah I think we should stand up a grabber 18:21:10 terceiro: yeah, that's why we dropped it for mdco2 18:21:27 but bandwith considerations mean it's a good idea to bring it back 18:21:36 I'd rather have it clunky for volunteers than unreadable for attendees 18:21:47 if a talkmeister has a good connection they could use jitsi instead 18:22:02 paddatrapper: +1 18:22:04 TBH I'm not sure people watching _need_ to the pad in the stream 18:22:05 but 2 options is harder to explain to people 18:22:07 tumbleweed: that would mean 1 less source though, split-screen on questions is nice 18:22:12 pollo: yeah, it is 18:22:19 terceiro: agreed 18:22:23 that also means we'll need a background loop 18:22:23 sometimes the pad is useful, sometimes it isn't 18:22:30 pollo: good point 18:22:46 do we action highvoltage for that? 18:22:49 heh 18:22:50 the grabber needs VNC so that someone can scroll it, and that's it, right ? 18:22:53 the conf where I discovered this pad thing was GUADEC, and they never showed it on the stream 18:22:54 well, you can just keep the default which is a black background 18:22:54 CarlFK: yes 18:22:58 CarlFK: and load the right pad 18:23:17 terceiro: that's actually a good point too 18:23:19 tumbleweed: I feel it's useful, especially when people have strong accents 18:23:19 I think it's very useful to show the pad during BoFs 18:23:32 terceiro: I do sometimes think to myself "I can read too, talkmeister", but... 18:23:34 terceiro: :) 18:23:41 yeah, some talkmeisters are way too verbose 18:23:45 they could be summarizing the questions 18:23:51 IME, when the pad is actively used, it's best if someone involved shares it 18:23:53 it's especially silly if the talkmeister reads a question that has *just* been answered, which happened once through the mdco2 18:23:53 (or skipping them, if thye've already been answered) 18:24:14 jathan: that was you, btw :) 18:24:25 tumbleweed: I didn't want to name names, but yes :) 18:24:28 we should probably be giving talkmeisters feedback during the conference and improving them 18:24:43 it doesn't help if we all think "that was bad" but don't do anything about it 18:24:50 true 18:25:07 i think it's a good idea the speaker and talkmeister see the pad, but not necessary share it on the streaming 18:25:15 but then I always feel slightly awkward telling people who've been doing a certain thing a lot more than me how to do that thing 18:25:24 yeah 18:25:30 I normally read questions even though they've been answered on the pad, I think it's wrong to assume everyone can read the answer on screen 18:26:09 anyway, we agreed on a grabber VM :) 18:26:11 should we perhaps action someone to write instructions/suggestions for talkmeisters? 18:26:30 on etherpad things, I mean 18:26:38 wouter: we have documentation for that, but probably needs adding to 18:26:40 we do have intructions, this sounsd like a follow-up doc on how to be a better talkmeister 18:26:41 we will not have problem with accents (i hope) :-) 18:27:05 I would keep things simple, not have a grabber vm, and instead document how talkmeister should handle the pad 18:27:06 'kay 18:27:10 but that's just me 18:27:23 terceiro: well, if you prefer not to show the pad, then we also don't need the grabber vm 18:27:40 i guess for now, don't need grabber vm 18:27:49 I seem to be in the minority on this though 18:27:50 i agree 18:27:55 OK, if you change your mind, let us know 18:27:57 that's ok then, but we should discourage people to share the pad on jitsi then 18:28:03 for MDCO-BR at least 18:28:05 it's pretty simple to spin up 18:28:08 it's up to you, really. I guess a non-english minidebconf has the advantage that more people are likely to speak the language natively 18:28:18 which means the added advantage of being able to also read the question is not really there anymore 18:28:22 Especially with potential issues with screen sharing on Firefox 18:28:28 right 18:28:54 #agreed mdcobr2020 does not need a grabber (and expects to show the pad on the stream less than usual for debconf online) 18:29:09 #topic mdcobr2020 - test run 18:29:22 do you want to do a test run before the weekend? 18:29:37 I think it would be a good idea, even if it's just 10 minutes 18:30:00 yes, sure 18:30:05 we should have all of the assets (slides, backrgrounds, etc.) in place before hand, though 18:30:14 after 21h UTC please :-) 18:30:29 you tell me when, and I can be there 18:30:40 but maybe we'll have to wait for highvoltage's actions, first 18:30:54 ok 18:31:23 #agreed we'll try to do a test run, once the prerequisite assets are in place 18:31:36 #topic volunteers and training 18:31:48 I can't help tomorrow, sorry :( 18:31:51 I see from the agenda you'll be training on wednesday at 17:30 18:32:18 17:30 UTC? 18:32:26 yeah 18:32:35 you should make sure volunteers have an account on salsa and log in the conference website 18:32:46 phls: I suggest collecting salsa usernames in signup, so we can give them access to https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-video-team/access-credentials 18:33:03 and yes, make sure they log into the website so they can be added to the video group and see jitsi URLs 18:33:39 no.. 23:30 UTC 18:33:59 oh, so 17:30 local time? 18:34:06 20:30 local time 18:34:13 it says 17:30 UTC in the pad 18:34:24 tumbleweed, ok for salsa usernames 18:34:30 lenharo: 17:30 UTC is an hour ago 18:34:40 (for today) 18:35:04 lenharo: so would you mean an hour ago tomorrow, or later than that? 18:35:07 i think someone calculated the time difference in the wrong direction 18:35:07 (by the pad, I mean the agenda) 18:35:10 sorry, 20:30 local time, 23:30 UTC :-) 18:35:28 oh, right, I was confused there, sorry 18:35:28 I did 20:30 - 3:00 18:35:36 aha 18:35:47 #info training will be on Wednesday at 23:30 UTC 18:35:50 :-) 18:35:55 okay, 23:30 UTC is quite past my bedtime, so I won't be there 18:36:15 * nattie *might* be able to look in, but is possibly quite busy 18:36:16 it will be in pt_BR anyway 18:36:21 but I'll be around if you need anything 18:36:25 cool 18:37:08 #topic mdcobr2020 - questions 18:37:26 I quote from the agenda: 18:37:27 Show clock in UTC-3 18:37:28 Ask to update SReview 18:37:48 phls: are you talking about the clock in OBS? 18:37:59 and likely on voctomix1 ? 18:38:02 yes, we had a small update on the agenda (just add some speakers on one BoF) 18:38:18 I guess it would make sense to use UTC-3 everywhere 18:38:20 on the streaming, there is a clock on the screen 18:38:26 phls: that's OBS 18:38:37 let me run the script, sec 18:38:57 pollo: yeah, maybe we should be changing the timezone of the machines to -3? 18:39:03 eh, can't do it now, but I'll do it tonight 18:39:21 wouter: or do you want recording filenames in UTC? 18:39:21 wouter, thanks 18:39:35 I think only the onscreen clock is fine 18:39:42 or onstream in this case 18:39:54 tumbleweed: I want recording filenames in whatever the in-SReview database uses as timezone 18:39:58 otherwise things get confused 18:40:08 but I can update the script to do that, so just make everything UTC-3 and I'll be happy 18:40:30 wouter: right, so what are you doing in your database 18:40:47 tumbleweed: I'll make the times there stored in UTC-3? 18:41:07 unless you tell me now that that would complicate matters 18:41:11 so you'll want UTC-3 filenames 18:41:15 yes 18:41:33 sounds reasonable to me 18:41:41 #agreed we'll record in UTC-3 18:41:43 then all the times can be UTC-3 18:42:15 I'll also make the script idempotent and then just run it from cron 18:42:24 it doesn't seem ideal to be constantly changing timezone in our long-lived infra. But it does seem to make sense for this conference 18:42:28 which would mean that any change to wafer will migrate to the db automatically 18:42:34 maybe in the future we'll decide this was a bad idea, and try to move to UTC-only 18:42:52 #action pollo to update machines for UTC-3 18:42:55 it makes sense for .in as well though 18:43:05 IMO this is pretty risky 18:43:07 #action wouter to update the schedule in SReview to UTC-3 18:43:10 I would leave the clock in the machines alone 18:43:15 since they're on a half-hour offset 18:43:36 ah, do we need to worry with record the talks during presentations? Or everything is done on background? 18:43:49 (sorry for the diversion) 18:43:57 phls: we're always recording (or not recording) 18:44:06 I mean, we turn it on at the start of the conference, and off at the end 18:44:16 tumbleweed, ok 18:44:50 but should we ping someone to start and end it? 18:45:07 phls: the whole conference, not just each talk 18:45:09 phls: it doesn't hurt, I guess, but it's on our checklist 18:45:11 the whole weekend event 18:45:27 ok 18:45:57 paddatrapper: do you know if you'll be able to take the first "on-call" shift? 18:46:08 phls: have you seen my ping wrt a wiki page for volunteers? 18:46:24 pollo: I'll only know Friday around 17:00 UTC unfortunately 18:46:36 ok, well be sure to keep me posted 18:46:40 will do 18:46:43 I won't get up saturday morning otherwise :) 18:46:53 terceiro, pollo: We could also just put TZ=America/Sao_Paulo in the record script (and OBS) 18:47:01 pollo, lenharo is creating the wiki page 18:47:29 tumbleweed: I'm ok with that 18:47:33 tumbleweed: +1 18:47:45 feels a lot safer 18:47:48 #agreed insert TZ into record script 18:47:56 tumbleweed: I fear that if you do that we may forget one place and then things go horribly wrong? 18:48:08 not if it's ansibled 18:48:15 wouter: it is a risk 18:48:28 but the only interface between voctomix and sreview is those files 18:48:32 so I think it's simple enough 18:48:45 * tumbleweed likes servers that run on UTC 18:48:46 if it's system-wide and ansibled, and then you reboot the box to be sure... 18:49:00 well, if you're sure you can make it work, it's fine I guess 18:49:12 I think we are complicating things. the only request was showing the OBS clock in UTC-3, nothing else is really necessary 18:49:22 the files do matter for sreview 18:49:24 * wouter 's server is running in a timezone he hasn't been in for over a year now :) 18:49:50 sreview uses tz-aware columns for times 18:49:59 but I don't know if it converts to UTC when it comes to deal with files 18:50:04 which is why I asked :) 18:50:05 but why is this different from any other conf with its own TZ? 18:50:21 terceiro: usually the machines are *on-site* at that conference, and in the local timezone 18:50:24 yes, but I haven't actually ran any conference where it looked at that, and I'd rather not start looking now 18:50:26 i.e. the thing you didn't want to do 18:50:54 ah 18:50:55 ok 18:50:57 CarlFK takes his own machines to conferences, and they're usually still in Chicago timezone, so sreview has built-in hacks for dealing with this mess 18:51:06 s/sreview/veyepar/ I meant 18:51:07 omg 18:51:15 (he forgets to change the timezone) 18:51:19 heh 18:51:29 yeah, I think it's fair to say that SReview assumes everything is in the same timezone 18:51:32 I'll shut up and let the people who know what they are doing alone 18:51:48 I originally didn't want to write it that way, but I never ended up testing any code to actually work, and so now, no. 18:52:07 :P 18:52:21 (aka, "don't look at the database for features that SReview supports") 18:52:33 there are entire *tables* in the SReview database that *no* code will ever look at 18:52:40 :P 18:52:44 yeah, I found that last week 18:52:51 OK... 18:53:05 so, let's try TZ and see what it looks like 18:53:07 #topic video archive documentation 18:53:11 paddatrapper: carry the item? 18:53:21 pollo you mean? 18:53:28 wrong p, oops 18:53:30 yes 18:53:31 heh 18:53:41 #topic Any other Business 18:54:05 would someone be so kind to help me set up a play environment of our stuff for fosdem? 18:54:15 not before the weekend obviously, but after that 18:54:18 wouter: sure 18:54:29 I don't know it *quite* well enough, so... 18:54:32 thx 18:54:43 happy to help out there too 18:54:48 if you have infra, we can ansible it :P 18:55:25 it's just that I don't really know which parts are required and which parts aren't, and also I don't think we have a gitlab 18:55:42 oh, phls, lenharo: 18:55:53 wouter: a oAuth2 provider would likely work I guess 18:55:56 so either we'll have to set up a gitlab for a play environment (feels like overkill) or we'll have to figure out some other OIDC service 18:56:00 wouter, will fosdem use the same debconf solution? 18:56:07 phls: not decided yet 18:56:19 yesterday I tried to help avoid people setting video to a source, without setting audio to it. This happens sometimes. 18:56:30 part of why I want this play environment, so I can (hopefully) convince people it's a good idea and we *don't* need to reinvent the wheel :) 18:56:33 so, this branch is currently deployed on the conference vogol: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-video-team/vogol/-/merge_requests/14 18:57:32 it looks a little bit different to what we did training on 18:57:53 I think it's fine? 18:58:20 tumbleweed, ok 18:58:39 I think it makes it harder if we were to use split-screen, but for a miniconf with only 3 sources it does solve the problem 18:59:02 pollo: All of the controls are still there, just moved around 18:59:13 and in split screen, it will be obvious which sources are contributing audio 18:59:18 yes, but "select" is confusing for split screen 18:59:31 I'd also expect a preset for dc20-style Q&A 19:00:00 "fullscreen solo" was clearer in that regard imo 19:00:09 for a video-only source, it will say: "Select Video" 19:00:12 anyway, no need to talk about this during the meeting :) 19:00:33 yeah, I just wanted to bring their attention to it 19:00:44 suggestions on improvements definitely appreciated :) 19:01:02 We may need to update docs and screenshots to reflect the changes? 19:01:08 yeah 19:01:12 might be worth showing it to people before the training session tomorrow 19:01:21 we can hold this change until after the br mini, too 19:01:22 (specifically, those conducting the training) 19:01:30 fair enough 19:02:45 should we do that? go back 19:03:24 now vogol is updated? 19:03:26 I think the current patch makes it better for miniconfs, so I'd say no 19:03:54 OK, I'll look at updating docs 19:04:09 let's finish this meeting 19:04:14 #topic Next Meeting 19:04:24 Same time next week? 19:04:35 wfm 19:04:37 yes, but afterwards, let's take a break :) 19:04:44 that'd be nice 19:04:47 yes 19:04:58 +1 to both 19:05:05 yes please 19:05:06 #agreed same time next week. and then HOLIDAYS (until .in mini) 19:05:14 regardless, I'll probably be too busy with FOSDEM anyway 19:05:19 #endmeeting