17:58:19 <olasd> #startmeeting 17:58:19 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Dec 1 17:58:19 2020 UTC. The chair is olasd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:58:19 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:58:27 <olasd> #addchair tumbleweed 17:58:31 <olasd> #chair tumbleweed 17:58:31 <MeetBot> Current chairs: olasd tumbleweed 17:58:36 <olasd> better 17:58:36 <tumbleweed> ohai 17:58:41 <olasd> #topic Roll Call 17:58:51 <phls> hi 17:58:54 <olasd> #link Agenda http://deb.li/oNCD 17:58:58 <sahilister[m]> hello o/ 17:59:05 <olasd> (will that work? who knows!) 17:59:07 <pollo> 0/ 17:59:40 <olasd> any paddatrapper or highvoltage s around? 17:59:46 <tumbleweed> woo, people from both .br and .in minis 18:00:05 <wouter> hi 18:00:07 <pollo> br-in-g them in! 18:00:10 * pollo hides 18:00:19 <olasd> har har 18:00:24 <wouter> what's g? 18:00:32 * nattie extracts the pun tax from pollo 18:00:46 <sahilister[m]> g = global or germany? 18:00:54 <nattie> global then 18:01:10 <nattie> pollo: one jar of preserved tomatoes, please! 18:01:23 <olasd> alright, I guess that's all of us 18:01:25 <highvoltage> highvoltage is around but working 18:01:32 <olasd> ah, I just had to ask :P 18:01:36 <olasd> #topic 2.1. mdcobr2020 - Video encoding check-in 18:01:53 <tumbleweed> all done, I think 18:01:55 <nattie> oh yeah, i'm hereish, in my usual way 18:01:59 <wouter> I forgot, yet again, to swich LQ to VP9... 18:02:10 <wouter> but meh, don't think it's crucial 18:02:16 <wouter> I'll try to not forget before the .in one ;) 18:02:16 <tumbleweed> terceiro: you probably want to import video links to th esite 18:02:18 <olasd> it did sound that way; is there a final review expected? 18:02:25 <pollo> olasd: done 18:02:27 <olasd> great 18:02:31 <tumbleweed> pollo: are we going to do an etherpad export again? 18:02:34 <tumbleweed> (did they even use etherpad) 18:02:38 <olasd> #info All encodings done, and a final review happened 18:02:44 <pollo> tumbleweed: for? 18:02:45 <terceiro> tumbleweed: yes, I will 18:02:51 <tumbleweed> pollo: .br mini 18:02:55 <pollo> ah, yes etherpad export, sorry 18:02:58 <olasd> #action terceiro to import video links to the website 18:03:05 <pollo> #action pollo to export the BR etherpads 18:03:22 <olasd> anything else for this topic? 18:03:38 <terceiro> tumbleweed: did you do that for mdco games? 18:03:46 <terceiro> (otherwise I can do it at the same time) 18:04:21 <tumbleweed> terceiro: yes 18:04:29 <terceiro> cool 18:04:30 <tumbleweed> although the games one had to deal with weird data issues that you won't have to 18:04:40 <terceiro> k 18:04:49 <olasd> alright 18:04:52 <olasd> #topic 2.2. mdcobr2020 - Feedback 18:05:01 <pollo> I think things went well? 18:05:05 <terceiro> they did 18:05:07 <olasd> I've seen happy organizers, at least :-) 18:05:14 <phls> yes, it was very nive 18:05:15 <phls> nice 18:05:20 <olasd> #info Things went well overall 18:05:25 <tumbleweed> didn't see any fires, we never got called in to fix anything 18:05:27 <terceiro> there were some hiccups, but mostly caused by speakers not listening to advice 18:05:39 <pollo> yes, very few pre-recorded videos 18:05:45 <wouter> terceiro: can you summarize them? 18:05:48 <tumbleweed> and some firefox 18:05:53 <wouter> perhaps it's something we might be able to work on? 18:05:57 <terceiro> speaker with flaky internet connection 18:06:02 <wouter> ... then again, perhaps not :) 18:06:02 <terceiro> speaker without a proper mic 18:06:13 <nattie> did y'all have test calls? 18:06:15 <terceiro> it's mostly a matter of being more on top of them 18:06:18 <wouter> right 18:06:38 <wouter> it might be useful if we had a low-speed Internet option for people to join the conference 18:06:43 <phls> just 2 pre-recorded videos 18:06:43 <pollo> we have 18:06:44 <wouter> but I'm not sure that's possible 18:06:51 <wouter> oh 18:06:51 <pollo> wouter: there's a phone option in jitsi 18:06:57 * wouter goes quiet 18:07:00 <olasd> #info Some issues were caused by presenters not following the advice, e.g. poor quality of internet connection or bad microphone 18:07:08 <wouter> pollo: not what I meant, but okay 18:07:20 <pollo> not sure what you mean then 18:07:29 <pollo> we have low-res streams too 18:07:30 <phls> i believe it's a good idea add a warning on the doc for more than one jitsi room sending streaming to vogol 18:07:54 <wouter> pollo: nvm, I'm actually not sure myself :) 18:08:16 <tumbleweed> phls: what was the issue there? were they fighting each other? 18:08:17 <wouter> video conference requires bandwidth, we're not magicians, I shouldn't have said anything 18:09:07 <terceiro> IMO it's unreasonable to expect someone to present at an online conf without having a minimally decent internet connection 18:09:35 <phls> tumbleweed, no, because I asked here first what could happen if we do that 18:09:50 <olasd> terceiro: live, definitely; but uploading slides somewhere and talking over them on mumble could work 18:09:51 <pollo> terceiro: well, pre-recorded videos + phone Q&A would certainly be an option 18:10:29 <olasd> I mean, there's a few options for low-bandwidth live talks that /could/ be explored if the need is present (I'm not sure it actually is) 18:10:33 <terceiro> sure 18:10:51 <paddatrapper> Sorry, I've had irl commitments tonight. Not going to be around for the meeting 18:10:55 <terceiro> my point is we should not optimize for that 18:11:09 <olasd> yeah, definitely 18:12:28 <olasd> tempted to "#info We could give clearer advice to organizers for what happens when multiple Jitsi rooms try to stream to the same vogol" but I'm not sure that's what you meant, phls 18:12:48 <olasd> (and then I'm not sure where and how) 18:12:56 <tumbleweed> I also don't actually know what would happen 18:13:00 <tumbleweed> I'd have to try it out to see 18:13:11 <tumbleweed> IIRC at dc20, it'd just kick the old one out, which seems fine 18:13:14 <terceiro> the advice should be "don't" 18:13:14 <olasd> should I #action you? 18:13:23 <wouter> #info there were some issues with speakers not following advice and having bad equipment/internet connections, but these were minor overall 18:13:24 <tumbleweed> terceiro: err, in that scenario, it seems fine 18:13:34 <olasd> wouter: I already did that, I think 18:13:42 <wouter> #undo 18:13:44 <wouter> yes, you did 18:13:55 <wouter> but apparently I can't undo -- tumbleweed, could you do that for me? ;) 18:14:02 <olasd> you can't #info either 18:14:04 <olasd> so that's fine 18:14:05 <pollo> tumbleweed: I think they flicker in and out, alternating, until one dies 18:14:22 <tumbleweed> olasd: the docs say #info is for everyone 18:14:24 <wouter> oh, hah 18:14:28 <olasd> ah, interesting 18:14:30 <olasd> #undo 18:14:30 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x14e2a10> 18:14:31 <tumbleweed> #undo 18:14:31 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x166ca90> 18:14:33 <olasd> lol 18:14:34 <tumbleweed> lol 18:14:35 <phls> olasd, basically a warning saying: don't start more than on streamings on the same time 18:14:40 <tumbleweed> I was hoping it would say what it removed 18:14:40 <olasd> #info Some issues were caused by presenters not following the advice, e.g. poor quality of internet connection or bad microphone 18:14:41 <wouter> hah 18:15:00 <wouter> tumbleweed: it does, to some extent 18:15:07 <olasd> so, anyway, tumbleweed: #action or not? 18:15:31 <olasd> or anyone else (to check what happens when 2 jitsi rooms stream to the same vogol) 18:15:41 <olasd> (and write the resulting advice) 18:15:54 <tumbleweed> sure, I'll take an action 18:16:16 <olasd> #action tumbleweed to check what happens when 2 jitsi rooms are streaming with the same streaming key, and write the resulting advice 18:16:45 <olasd> #topic 2.3. mdcobr2020 - tear down streaming CDN 18:16:55 <wouter> that's been done? 18:16:57 <tumbleweed> yeah 18:17:00 <olasd> #info all done by tumbleweed 18:17:04 <tumbleweed> now that we have this long-lived stack 18:17:11 <tumbleweed> there is a question of whether this should stay up 18:17:14 <tumbleweed> or some of it should 18:17:22 <tumbleweed> right now, there's a single streaming frontend at hetzner 18:17:30 <tumbleweed> which is probably enough for a miniconf 18:17:31 <pollo> I don't think we need a full distributed CDN via DO 18:17:36 <olasd> or whether we really need it at all 18:17:39 <olasd> indeed 18:17:51 <wouter> it cost us 12USD to run it, I don't think that's a problem? 18:17:52 <tumbleweed> it probably makes sense to have one regional one for regional miniconfs 18:18:02 <highvoltage> the next one is nect month I don't think the CDN needs to stay up but it might be nice keeping it up for collective experiments and improvements 18:18:34 <terceiro> or make it very easy to bring it up when needed 18:18:37 <tumbleweed> it is 18:18:43 <highvoltage> (sorry too much caffeine that sentence needed some punctuation :p) 18:18:44 <tumbleweed> it could be even easier, of course 18:18:46 <wouter> I think it already is? 18:19:02 <tumbleweed> but it's half an hour's work at most to bring it up 18:19:19 <wouter> most of which is "wait for ansibl to finish", I guess? 18:19:20 <terceiro> provided one gets a hold of one of you 18:19:21 <terceiro> :) 18:19:25 <tumbleweed> or olasd 18:19:27 <tumbleweed> or a DSA 18:19:42 <highvoltage> define "easy". before DC20 it was easy to bring the stack up but in reality it took quite a while to sort everything out (of which some time was sorting out which 'hardware' to use which at least did take up quite some of that time) 18:19:42 <olasd> I don't think DSA has access to the DO account? 18:19:42 <pollo> they'll need to anyway if they want to have a miniconf 18:19:43 <tumbleweed> wouter: no, clicking things in DO, adding DNS records 18:19:45 <pollo> at least for now 18:19:54 <tumbleweed> and then a few mins of ansible, eah 18:19:55 <tumbleweed> yeah 18:20:04 <highvoltage> ah sounds ok at least 18:20:11 <wouter> isn't there an ansible module for DO too? 18:20:11 <terceiro> yeah I don't think we have a problem with this atm 18:20:16 <wouter> if so we might be able to use that 18:20:24 <olasd> actually I have a 10 line python script somehwere to automate most of that 18:20:24 <wouter> (should make things slightly faster) 18:20:28 <tumbleweed> pollo: actually, no, I think a miniconf doesn't need this 18:20:31 <tumbleweed> but it's nice to have 18:20:39 <tumbleweed> certainly would have been nice to have one in .br for the mini there 18:20:52 <tumbleweed> or we should ask talk to DSA about using one of their CDN providres 18:20:55 <pollo> I mean "they'll need to reach out to us anyway if they want to have a miniconf, for now" 18:21:28 <pollo> when peertube gets HLS support we can try to get a minimal "you don't need us" config 18:21:38 <terceiro> cool 18:21:59 <tumbleweed> I don't know if I'd trust our peertube instance for conference live streams 18:22:03 <tumbleweed> without signifciant beefing up 18:22:16 <tumbleweed> I'd steer clear of that 18:22:22 <tumbleweed> but that's because we've got something that we know works 18:23:23 <tumbleweed> shall we move on? 18:23:29 <olasd> do we have anything to agree on within this topic? 18:23:29 <wouter> yes please 18:23:34 <wouter> don't think so 18:23:47 <olasd> #topic 3.1 .in mini - timeline 18:24:33 <olasd> #info The dates for the MiniDebConf online India are 23-24 January 2021 18:24:42 <olasd> #link https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/MiniDebConfOnlineIndia2021 18:24:50 <terceiro> I was proded in private mail about a site; will be bringing it up RSN 18:24:59 <terceiro> (wafer) 18:25:06 <wouter> was about to ask that :) 18:25:23 <wouter> terceiro: will you let me know when it's live? I can then add it to SReview 18:25:30 <wouter> (recently fixed the parser, so it's now idempotent again) 18:25:30 <jcristau> tumbleweed: i don't think we'd have a problem setting up a cdn to serve debconf stuff, fwiw. let us know. 18:25:41 <olasd> #link first meeting minutes: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianIndia/MiniDebConfOnlineIndia2021/Meeting1 18:25:47 <terceiro> wouter: yes 18:26:20 <terceiro> tumbleweed: I will ping you wrt DNS 18:26:30 <tumbleweed> jcristau: thanks, let's chat after the meeting 18:26:45 <olasd> what should be *our* timeline wrt the .in minidebconf? 18:27:12 <tumbleweed> I think we should ask for a schedule to be ready a week in advance 18:27:30 <tumbleweed> and give them a list of things we need (title slides, etc.) 18:27:49 <tumbleweed> pollo: whoops, missed in your recent edits 18:28:10 <wouter> do the .in minidc people want to use the SReview upload functionality for prerecorded talks? 18:28:37 <pollo> tumbleweed: edits where? 18:28:37 <phls> do you know if MDCO India will be in english? 18:28:45 <sahilister[m]> Yes for me. Will ask around and revert here. (about SReview) 18:28:49 <tumbleweed> pollo: https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/docs/working_with_videoteam.html 18:29:01 <olasd> phls: I think multiple languages, according to the first meeting 18:29:04 <pollo> ah it's ok, paddatrapper reviewed th rest 18:29:14 <sahilister[m]> For MDCO we plan, English, Hindi, Malaylam + one or two. 18:29:17 <tumbleweed> pollo: no, I mean, we could have listed all the things we will need 18:29:19 <wouter> sahilister[m]: okay, I'll make that happen then 18:29:28 <tumbleweed> e.g. schedules, opening slides 18:29:29 <phls> cool 18:29:32 <pollo> tumbleweed: I don't think that's the goal of that page 18:29:49 <pollo> anyway, wrong topic :) 18:29:50 <olasd> should we pad the list after the meeting? 18:29:57 <olasd> so it can be sent afterwards? 18:30:00 <tumbleweed> olasd: +1 18:30:07 <tumbleweed> and I think we should find a place for it in our docs 18:30:19 <olasd> #agreed write the list of videoteam requirements on a pad after the meeting so we can send it to the .in organizers 18:30:54 <olasd> training of volunteers in the week before the conf? dry run of a talk at that point too? 18:31:02 <pollo> we haven't talked about timezones... 18:31:13 <pollo> it'll be hard for me to do anything for that miniconf 18:31:28 <wouter> what will the timezone be? 18:31:37 <tumbleweed> india 18:31:38 <terceiro> UTC+5:30 18:31:41 <sahilister[m]> UTC + 5:30 18:31:42 <wouter> yes, obviously :) 18:31:59 <pollo> that's a 10h shift on my side 18:32:04 <olasd> #info conference timezone will be UTC + 05:30 18:32:12 <wouter> I might be able to help out -- it's not too bad for me 18:32:27 <wouter> depending on what time the miniconf is going to start 18:32:38 <wouter> (although I won't be able to help until the end, probably) 18:32:45 <tumbleweed> I may be able to be around for the start of their days, if they do start earlier 18:32:53 <tumbleweed> but hard to commit to that at this point 18:32:56 <olasd> anyway, we'll need a rough idea of the schedule blocks so we can plan our core volunteers 18:33:03 <olasd> fairly soon 18:33:05 <wouter> yeah, absolutely 18:33:25 <sahilister[m]> Will discuss and mention the rough schedule in a week here. 18:33:32 <sahilister[m]> for .in MDCO. 18:33:41 <wouter> sahilister[m]: thanks 18:33:51 <olasd> great, thanks (we probably won't have a meeting *next* week, but we'll be around) 18:34:03 <wouter> #info rough schedule for .in mdco expected some time next week 18:34:05 <olasd> #action sahilister[m] to give us the schedule outline 18:34:09 <wouter> ... 18:34:14 <wouter> we need to stop doing that ;) 18:34:24 <olasd> backseat chairing ;p 18:34:30 <wouter> something like that 18:34:31 <olasd> #chair wouter 18:34:31 <MeetBot> Current chairs: olasd tumbleweed wouter 18:34:44 <wouter> iek 18:35:06 <olasd> #topic 3.2 .in mini - Meeting schedule? 18:35:23 <olasd> I'm pretty sure we need a break for one or two weeks (or three) 18:35:26 <pollo> for the videoteam or the local team? 18:35:30 <olasd> for the video team 18:35:41 <olasd> it's a video team meeting, isn't it? 18:35:44 <tumbleweed> this is a .in subitem 18:35:53 <olasd> tumbleweed: you wrote it 18:35:55 <tumbleweed> because we need to come back at a good point to engage with them 18:35:57 <highvoltage> maybe he meant the local video team or the global video team 18:36:00 <highvoltage> *ducks* 18:36:11 <pollo> anyway, yes, I need a break 18:36:26 <olasd> tumbleweed: yeah, definitely; but we've been having weekly meetings forever at this point 18:36:33 <tumbleweed> I'm guessing about 2 weeks before .in sounds about right? 18:36:42 <pollo> would 1st week of jan be too late? 18:37:02 <olasd> meeting on jan 5 gives us two more meetings before the event 18:37:05 <olasd> which sounds fine? 18:37:09 <pollo> +1 18:37:09 <wouter> yeah, I think that works 18:37:16 <wouter> and I'm not doing anything before then anyway 18:37:24 <olasd> I mean, I don't think we'll want to upend the stack before then anyway 18:39:16 <olasd> the other question is meeting time; 18:00 UTC is 01:30 AM India time which isn't great for the organizers; can we push that earlier? 18:39:53 <tumbleweed> 2 hours earlier is the most that's comfortable from here 18:39:56 <tumbleweed> 3 at a push 18:40:12 <pollo> both work for me 18:40:30 <olasd> I guess we should talk it through with sahilister[m] and others when we send our list of requirements? 18:40:39 <olasd> see what works for them 18:40:39 <tumbleweed> yeah 18:41:08 <olasd> #agreed next meeting on or about January 5th; in the meantime, send a list of requirements and agree on a meeting time that would work for .in volunteers as well as video team members 18:41:10 <wouter> wfm 18:41:32 <olasd> #topic 4. Video Archive Documentation 18:41:47 <pollo> nothing yet, let's add it to the next agenda 18:41:51 <olasd> ack 18:42:08 <olasd> #info no progress so far 18:42:20 <olasd> #topic 5. Working with the video team guidelines email 18:42:28 <olasd> #link https://storm.debian.net/shared/iBkmYf38dqUk6y4hrKvFxFe2yVPsWT2G_vnz3GFB0YD 18:42:51 <olasd> what triggered this? the vietnam announcement or anything else? 18:42:52 <pollo> if people are ok with the text, I'll send it after the meeting 18:43:07 <pollo> there's a vietnam minidc? 18:43:13 <olasd> well, lack-of-announcmenet 18:43:27 <olasd> ah, thailand, not vietnam 18:43:29 <olasd> (ugh) 18:43:45 <pollo> no, I just felt our documentation didn,t have a great starting point for organisers 18:43:51 <highvoltage> you may just have errored MiniDC Vietnam into existance 18:43:58 <wouter> highvoltage: :) 18:44:20 <olasd> pollo: I think the text is fine; I wonder if this should be turned into a "bits from the video team" also announcing availability of videos from the other events (and thanking volunteers)? 18:44:44 <tumbleweed> in that case maybe extend to say that this infra is up 18:44:50 <pollo> that could be done, although phls already sent an email wrt minidc_br videos 18:44:54 <tumbleweed> and you can feel free to use it for adhoc things 18:45:24 <pollo> tumbleweed: you mean vogol+jitsi? 18:46:07 <tumbleweed> + streaming + obs 18:46:11 <tumbleweed> i.e. online conference stuff 18:46:22 <pollo> it still needs manipulations on our side though 18:46:42 <pollo> I think we're not yet at the point where people can do stuff without us 18:46:54 <wouter> should teh text also encourage people to organize miniconferences? 18:47:14 <pollo> wouter: "To encourage you to organise local events" 18:47:15 <tumbleweed> pollo: sure, but it's not like it's a huge ask to support an event 18:47:35 <tumbleweed> we used the example of the .br weekly streams before. We could totally support things like that 18:47:35 <wouter> do we still have a lot? dinner's here 18:47:46 <tumbleweed> although if there was enough of that, we'd need a calendar 18:47:48 <olasd> it does take one of us to be available for the duration of the event in case something goes wrong 18:48:00 <pollo> tumbleweed: I'm not up for that on my side though 18:48:03 <nattie> pollo: shall i join in the effort of writing? 18:48:06 <wouter> pollo: ah yes, missed that 18:48:17 <olasd> (not exactly *paying attention* but being available to react) 18:48:23 <pollo> I was excited about peertube for that reason 18:48:38 <pollo> nattie: sure 18:48:49 <tumbleweed> I assume peertube streaming needs something to feed it 18:48:57 <tumbleweed> the kind of infra we have :P 18:49:14 <pollo> yes, but we can make that 100% automated 18:49:14 <tumbleweed> sure, fair point about needing some support 18:49:19 <olasd> anyway, I think the original scope of the mail is fine, and I think the current text is ok, even though it's a bit open ended 18:49:40 <highvoltage> yeah peertube also takes an rtmp feed for live streaming 18:49:50 <olasd> if the videos for past events have been announced we don't need to do that again, I guess 18:50:10 <olasd> (can't find the announcements but...) 18:50:16 <tumbleweed> probably the biggest thing we need to be involved with, in our setup, is recordings 18:50:23 <tumbleweed> and support 18:50:42 <tumbleweed> the jitsi, mixing, streaming stuff all basically runs itself 18:51:08 <pollo> agreed 18:51:13 <olasd> yeah 18:51:19 <tumbleweed> I'm quite happy with not advertising anything, though 18:52:59 <pollo> olasd: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2020/11/msg00019.html 18:53:02 <olasd> shall pollo send the email as-is (after some wordsmithing) then? 18:54:08 <olasd> *crickets* 18:54:18 <pollo> I'm all for it :) 18:54:22 <wouter> +1 18:54:25 <nattie> sure 18:54:39 <olasd> #agreed pollo to send the working with the video team guidelines email 18:55:02 <olasd> #topic 6. INSERT NEW ITEMS HERE 18:55:08 <olasd> #topic 7. Any other business 18:55:10 <olasd> (scnr) 18:55:40 <olasd> *crickets* 18:55:41 <wouter> tumbleweed: I fixed the config for lq encodings 18:55:43 <olasd> ah 18:55:48 <wouter> they now will be vp9 18:55:54 <tumbleweed> great 18:55:55 <olasd> #info wouter fixed the config for lq encodings to make them vp9 18:55:57 <wouter> thought it also means that it will lie about the json files 18:56:01 <tumbleweed> I guess that will double encoding times :) 18:56:05 <wouter> s/thought/though/ 18:56:06 <wouter> probably 18:56:17 <olasd> any other other business? 18:56:20 <tumbleweed> the json files are full of lies about the encoding profiles anyway 18:56:25 <wouter> :) 18:56:29 <wouter> tumbleweed: sorry about that 18:56:46 <olasd> #topic 8. Next Meeting 18:57:00 <tumbleweed> np. I don't think it's reasonable to expect sreview to use the archive-meta data format for that, internally 18:57:00 <olasd> #agreed next meeting: January 5th 2021 (time TBD with the .in minidebconf team) 18:57:13 <olasd> #endmeeting