19:10:20 <marga> #startmeeting
19:10:20 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jul 21 19:10:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is marga. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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19:10:33 <marga> _rene_: can you repeat for the minutes?
19:10:37 <_rene_> and /me believes there is much to say aboout the website
19:10:40 <_rene_> first part done as a copy from dc14, valessio contributed the new artwork (and it was committed)
19:10:43 <_rene_> now we "just" need to re-enable the commented out stuff (sponsorship brochure, ...), add the dates, ...
19:11:30 <_rene_> I also used the photos I did on the kick off for a getting-to, but that a) needs fine-tune b) has time c) should be in the wiki anyway
19:12:25 <marga> So, there was some talk on the mailing list regarding the black vs the white version
19:12:44 <marga> Are we sticking with black by default?
19:13:39 <_rene_> good question
19:14:04 <_rene_> I initially set I don't like a all-black website, but I actially like the current one
19:15:03 <azeem> what about the menu bar, RichiH said he doesn't like it goes all the way, and I am not sure on that either
19:15:13 <_rene_> but the white one is also nice, except that the logo "disturbes" a bit (I guess that was the reason for the hd-by-night thingy.)
19:15:25 <azeem> though am not sure it would look better only along the content
19:16:14 <azeem> _rene_: is the logo supposed to jump to the right for the white version?
19:16:16 <marga> I think it's very nice to have both colors, I'd just want to have white be the default, but I don't want all of us bikeshedding about it...
19:16:30 <marga> I think the white version has a couple of bugs
19:16:34 <azeem> eh wait, it is duplicated on the right for me
19:16:39 <_rene_> azeem: that looks like a bug to me, I didn't do the artwork/css
19:16:43 <_rene_> yep
19:17:05 <_rene_> too much CSS for me to do massive changes ;)
19:17:31 <marga> Will Valessio keep working on it?
19:17:45 <azeem> personally I would like to explore a very-dark-grey/very-light-grey version, the black/white is rather saturated
19:17:55 <azeem> but indeed, it looks already quite nice
19:18:52 <_rene_> if someone points out the white logo bug, probably :)
19:19:01 * _rene_ can do that...
19:23:18 <marga> Ok, thanks.
19:23:56 <Ganneff> ...
19:24:33 <Ganneff> as usual, 21cest wont work for me.
19:25:03 <azeem> it worked better for you than for some others
19:25:19 <_rene_> well, you said that, but what about madduck/RichiH and conny/rhalina
19:25:39 <madduck> argh
19:25:43 <madduck> sorry
19:25:49 <madduck> i got held up :/
19:26:56 * Ganneff just had some hours fighting with little kid...
19:27:42 <madduck> Should I give a quick update on Verein?
19:28:00 <madduck> conny_, rhalina: ping?
19:28:40 <madduck> Basically, we are getting to enjoy German bureaucracy, but we'll just chug along. HD will let us sign the contract this month, so given that we have ample time, all is well…
19:28:46 <madduck> I am not worried, really.
19:29:13 <madduck> Except it means we cannot start collecting money for a while, which means we won't be able to make as much tax-free as we could have
19:29:27 <madduck> but we're talking about <10k, so it's not the end of the world
19:30:39 <madduck> Regarding the venue contract, I think it's all ready to go and we have something I believe is very favourable for us
19:31:06 <madduck> no 2×4 walk-in guests anymore, C&W sorted, possibility of bands and discos, and they handle all payments
19:31:23 <azeem> nice
19:31:28 <marga> indeed
19:31:29 <_rene_> jup
19:31:46 <azeem> madduck: what exactly means "bands and discos"?
19:31:55 <azeem> cause at the on-site visit they were rather against it
19:32:11 <madduck> were they?
19:33:15 <azeem> well I asked and they said absolutely no chance we can stay there unsupervised
19:33:15 <madduck> just because they have to stay down there if we use it, so we can't just let intrigeri make music until the sun rises every night
19:33:19 <madduck> ;)
19:33:25 <azeem> cause they have such expensive equipment
19:33:35 <azeem> ok
19:33:52 <madduck> we might also be able to use the courtyard until like 23:00 or so, depending on how we plan things
19:34:19 <azeem> well I am sure Rhonda and Lunar can rotate with intrigeri
19:36:04 <madduck> so nothing from conny_ or rhalina…
19:36:40 <madduck> I am starting to worry a little bit, tbh
19:36:43 <azeem> rhalina wrote she might not make it
19:36:46 <marga> madduck: how long do you expect the burocracy to delay the Verein?
19:37:48 <madduck> azeem: right, but there are also no commits and so it's a bit hard to decide what to do.
19:38:00 <madduck> marga: this could all take until October, thanks to the summer ahead…
19:38:37 <marga> ok
19:40:18 <madduck> What do you think we should do about the sponsorship brochure?
19:40:56 <azeem> regardless of the status of it, I think the most pressing point are the levels
19:41:14 <azeem> do we expect them to finalize those, or how will we come to some agreement?
19:41:22 <azeem> or are they set already?
19:42:41 <madduck> well, I think they are mostly set and shouldn't deviate too much from dc14
19:42:46 <madduck> just increase the prices a bit ;)
19:42:53 <marga> I would expect someone to propose them and the rest of us to agree on them.
19:42:58 <madduck> but there is also the whole issue about e.g. daytrip sponsoring etc.
19:43:16 <marga> madduck: "The whole issue"?
19:43:24 <azeem> should that be in the brochure?
19:43:34 <marga> I think it's generally agreed that this is something that we want to offer potential sponsors
19:43:37 <madduck> azeem: sure, why not? I mean, to be discussed…
19:43:52 <azeem> right but then we need to draft a budget for the day-trip already?
19:43:59 <madduck> marga: the problem is that the Verein might well not be able to pay for day trip or conference dinner as part of its non-profit activity
19:44:03 <azeem> without any clue what to do I guess?
19:44:13 <_rene_> well, one can only do if we have an idea about possible daytrips :)
19:44:15 <madduck> azeem: we can organise a day trip in 2–3 weeks, it's not that hard…
19:44:17 <_rene_> do we?
19:44:35 <azeem> madduck: in 2-3 weeks from *now*, or in general?
19:44:40 <madduck> either ;)
19:44:48 <madduck> if we needed a day trip by mid-august, we'd manage
19:44:59 <azeem> I agree we can do this, but I am not sure how we plan to appraoch sponsors about it
19:45:09 <marga> We should have a budget
19:45:11 <azeem> "we have no idea what we will do but guess 5k EUR will be fine, thx"
19:45:15 * RichiH hier
19:45:18 <madduck> I prefer the idea of asking e.g. Credativ or some other high-profile, long-term sponsor whether they want to design a day trip with us.
19:45:20 <RichiH> danke azeem!
19:45:39 <madduck> marga: for the daytrip? and in general? ;)
19:45:49 <azeem> madduck: what do you mean with "design"?
19:45:59 <azeem> I doubt any of our sponsors has local knowledgt
19:46:01 <marga> madduck: I meant for the daytrip, of course we need a general budget.
19:46:02 <azeem> knowledge*
19:46:29 <madduck> azeem: e.g. we suggest a place to go and say how many busses we need and then design e.g. food, an ice cream truck, or whatever else the sponsor wants to pay for to perk up the event
19:46:53 <azeem> well, to backtrack, we can certainly write in the brochure, "in addition, it is possble to sponsor the day trpiand x and y an z"
19:47:41 <azeem> madduck: ok, if you prefer asking sponsors, does that mean we don't need this in the brochure?
19:47:42 <madduck> well, this is where conny_ would be really helpful as she has experience with those things…
19:48:03 <azeem> well, we have to admit we all did a bad job in reminding people of this meeting
19:48:12 <madduck> yes, we did
19:48:39 <azeem> going back to the levels
19:48:45 <azeem> dc14 levels are in USD
19:48:49 <azeem> (I assume)
19:48:58 <madduck> yes
19:49:08 <madduck> so we can probably just s/USD/EUR/ and be done ;)
19:49:14 <azeem> 1. ITSM that sponsoring expectations might be different on the other side of the pond
19:49:26 <azeem> not sure in which direction, but I heard people say it
19:49:44 <azeem> 2. will we have USD levels for US based companies
19:49:45 <azeem> ?
19:49:57 <azeem> ITSM=ISTM, gah
19:49:58 <madduck> 2.: no, I think we just do EUR
19:50:17 <RichiH> i agree to s/usd/eur/
19:50:18 <marga> azeem: can you expand on the weird acronym?
19:50:23 <azeem> it seems to me
19:50:24 <madduck> it seems to me
19:50:24 <marga> I also thing we would just do EUR
19:50:36 <azeem> how does that stack up with dc13 levels?
19:50:42 <azeem> oh, those were in CHF, right?
19:50:46 <madduck> yes
19:51:00 <madduck> so the DC14 lvels are a bit cheaper actually
19:51:05 <madduck> which is the wrong way to go! ;)
19:51:43 <azeem> I think we should get them reviewed from the sponsoring team
19:51:49 <azeem> once we come up with something
19:52:07 <azeem> cause I think there were quite some disucssions and disagreements about them in the past
19:52:34 <madduck> so, should we drive forward the levels discussion independently of the brochure?
19:52:39 <RichiH> yes
19:52:40 <azeem> I think so
19:52:55 <azeem> I believe this is the single most important thing right now
19:53:05 <_rene_> yeah
19:53:14 <azeem> after we got the contract and the verein wrapped up, more or less
19:53:22 <RichiH> also, regarding tax-exempting, we could forewarn potential sponsors that they may need to pay someone direclty and we facilite it, not more. that would mean they can't really get a tax break for it, though
19:53:36 <RichiH> azeem: contract & verein are running in parallel
19:53:36 <azeem> hrm
19:53:41 <madduck> companies are not interested in tax breaks
19:53:44 <RichiH> it's not done, but it's on a good path
19:53:47 <madduck> azeem: do you think this [levels] is something you could take on and drive?
19:53:52 <azeem> RichiH: which is what I wrote
19:54:08 <madduck> companies want a regular contract with VAT
19:54:49 <azeem> are you sure they wouldn't like those to be tax-deductible donations?
19:55:02 <madduck> pretty sure.
19:55:13 <Ganneff> umm
19:55:13 <RichiH> azeem: if we are upfront about it and tell people that this might happen, they can decide for themselves
19:55:26 <RichiH> "please tell us if you are interested in X" -- if they are, we talk
19:55:41 <RichiH> if we have a definite answer either way before that time, all the better
19:55:42 <azeem> well yes, but if that means the companies get less out of it, the levels should be tuned to it
19:55:50 <azeem> I'd say
19:55:54 <madduck> if they want to give us a tax deductible donation, they can, but then they won't get *anything* more than a logo somewhere, *not even* a link to their website.
19:56:26 <azeem> madduck: I understand, but I am not sure this was the understanding for past debconfs
19:56:40 <azeem> well, you were in the sponsors tea
19:56:41 <azeem> m
19:56:43 <madduck> RichiH: of course we should invite anyone to talk to us about anything, but we should have a fairly clear and rigid framework and not make exceptions…
19:57:04 <madduck> azeem: sponsors generally got invoices with or without VAT, not donation receipts.
19:57:12 <azeem> k
19:57:14 <marga> madduck: their logo "somewhere" == their logo everywhere?
19:57:27 <RichiH> madduck: i meant about "this may not be tax deductible and as it's separate, we can not give you an exact amount yet; merely agree on a maximum amount"
19:57:29 <marga> (t-shirts, bags, banners, etc) ?
19:58:45 <madduck> marga: not sure, this is troublesome domain. For a donation to be tax-deductible, it must be a donation and we can say thanks with "we thank our sponsors X Y and Z with logos" somewhere, e.g. programme, brochure, opening/closing talks. But putting them into the platinum/gold/silver roster on the website will probably be seen as a service and thus be taxable.
20:00:01 <azeem> madduck: honestly, I think it would make sense if you'd join for the brochure text
20:00:04 <madduck> RichiH: yeah, except I think we should make sure to appear more organised and less vague about it, i.e. propose a basic day trip (or two) and some ideas to flesh it out, and then work with the sponsor to get to what they want and are willing to do.
20:00:11 <azeem> cause you are most into this legalize
20:00:20 <azeem> unless we want to leave this out entirely
20:00:59 <azeem> ok, we could brainstorm about specific things to sponsor
20:01:24 <madduck> there's already some stuff in data/sponsorship-brochure/notes/sponsorship-levels
20:01:24 <azeem> 1. daytrip
20:01:37 <azeem> 2. social event
20:01:45 <madduck> of course I will help, but rhalina is in charge and I don't want to interfere at this point…
20:01:48 <azeem> and/or conference dinner
20:01:51 <madduck> These would be great if sponsored externally, as they'll be difficult to do
20:01:54 <madduck> with our non-profit…
20:01:57 <madduck> * Day trip
20:01:59 <madduck> * Conference dinner
20:02:02 <madduck> * C&W party
20:02:04 <madduck> (pasted)
20:02:15 <azeem> how much would the C&W party be?
20:02:19 <marga> Ok, I guess only smaller donations are going to be tax deductible then.
20:02:19 <marga> I'm not sure that no companies are interested, but if it's not possible, it's not possible.
20:02:19 <marga> Is it the same for SPI?
20:02:19 <marga> I seem to have a lot of lag :-/
20:02:20 <marga> I don't think the brochure should have much legalise
20:02:21 <madduck> 2,5€/person
20:02:39 <azeem> ok, so around 1k
20:02:41 <madduck> marga: no, but we need some understanding of the legal requirements to propose the perks we offer
20:03:07 <marga> madduck: yes, but it shouldn't be the brochur
20:03:08 <madduck> in general, I think we should limit the ability to sponsor these extra events to bronze+ sponsors
20:03:18 <madduck> marga: no, I agree; the brochure needs to be a sales document.
20:03:24 <azeem> madduck: if we look at DC14 proposed budgets for day trip and conf dinner, I think those are quite large for individual sponsors
20:03:25 <marga> Indeed.
20:03:38 <azeem> so are we prepared to split the bill with the sponsor?
20:03:43 <madduck> sure.
20:03:48 <azeem> ok
20:04:02 <madduck> I mean, we can pay for food (unless it's super expensive) and other things
20:04:13 <madduck> but busses etc. will be hard
20:04:40 <azeem> then let's just all walk to the castle
20:04:43 <madduck> anyway, I don't think a day trip is going to be that expensive. Give me 2k and I can probably make it a worthwhile day.
20:04:53 <azeem> so
20:04:55 <azeem> conf dinner
20:04:59 <madduck> azeem: or take busses there and walk back etc.
20:05:07 <madduck> not sure anyone will ever walk in HD with me again though ;)
20:05:15 <azeem> personally, I liked the BBQ/birthday party *much* more than the conf dinner on the ship for DC13
20:05:30 <madduck> the bbq can happen on-site for like 5€/person
20:05:38 <madduck> so that's a great fall-back anyway
20:05:44 <azeem> and I wouldn't mind if we scrapped the expensive external conf dinner and rather have a social event on-site
20:05:52 <madduck> but we might just as well get a sponsor who wants to feed us in the castle!
20:05:56 <madduck> ;)
20:06:01 <azeem> well, ok
20:06:02 <madduck> or on a boat
20:06:05 <azeem> poit taken
20:06:06 <azeem> point*
20:06:35 <madduck> hence we "offer" the possibility to our sponsors to be super visible
20:07:05 <madduck> e.g. intel would be allowed to give a 5 min opening speech at dinner and place little goodie bags at the seats etc.
20:07:05 <azeem> right
20:07:20 <madduck> and if we cannot sell the conf dinner, which is the most expensive of all, we just have a bbq and be done with it
20:08:54 <azeem> ok
20:09:15 <RichiH> fwiw, i agree that the bbq was better than the boat trip
20:11:38 <madduck> Did you see data/sponsorship-brochure/notes/sponsorship-levels? Who could work this into an RFC for levels that we can then merge with the brochure?
20:11:57 <azeem> you signed me up
20:12:36 <azeem> madduck: what is the full clone url?
20:13:04 <RichiH> ssh://richih@git.debian.org/git/debconf-data/dc15.git
20:13:48 <madduck> azeem: thank you! I didn't mean to "sign you up". It's great if you're able to do it!
20:13:54 <azeem> ah there it is
20:14:09 <madduck> RichiH: need your password for the clone url… ;)
20:14:14 <madduck> what is it?
20:14:40 <RichiH> m4dducksm3lls0fp00p00
20:15:05 <madduck> *my* daughter makes poopoo into a potty!
20:15:26 <madduck> azeem: es gibt auch noch die Email von conny vom 3.5.2014
20:15:45 <madduck> habe sie einfach mal weitergeleitet (bounce)
20:17:02 <madduck> okay, so we covered website earlier… but one question for _rene_ (still here?)
20:17:06 <_rene_> si
20:17:19 <madduck> you said the CSS is too complex for you to work on, right (same here!)
20:17:27 <_rene_> nah, probably not
20:17:34 <madduck> ah, sorry then
20:17:38 <_rene_> I've just only basic knowledge about CSS :)
20:17:49 <madduck> just trying to make sure we don't end up with an unmaintainable website if Valessio ever stops
20:17:50 <RichiH> that's more than most of us
20:17:52 <_rene_> with more CSS knowledge... ;)
20:18:15 <_rene_> well, I managed to do the initial version a bit with a few adaptions
20:18:22 <_rene_> but nothing complex...
20:18:34 <madduck> _rene_: can we define a deadline e.g. in 2–3 weeks to have a "finished" (presentable) site?
20:18:39 <madduck> it would be nice to present it at dc14
20:18:52 <madduck> i.e. gather feedback and work with valessio to make it happen?
20:18:55 <_rene_> I think we should ask valessio to fix the white logo bug
20:19:00 <_rene_> and then we have it (imho=
20:19:48 <madduck> yeah, it's like 98% there, and those last 2% are the hardest ;)
20:20:09 <madduck> many people (I asked) also don't like the fire colours of the nav bar
20:20:17 <madduck> (i like them, but…)
20:21:55 <madduck> i just pinged formorer, he wanted to say something on child care
20:21:59 <madduck> anything else?
20:22:25 <RichiH> "change contrast" is in a different position in chrome & iceweasel
20:22:57 <madduck> RichiH: want to create a wiki page to track those ideas?
20:23:01 <madduck> ^W issues?
20:23:18 <RichiH> "want": no - "will": yes
20:23:27 <madduck> *smooch*
20:23:47 <azeem> maybe the navbar could be the same color for both contrasts? As a unifying thing?
20:23:55 <azeem> (and then maybe the white one)
20:25:06 <_rene_> simple yellow, yes.. (though I agree with madduck I like the effect)
20:25:37 <formorer> ah hier wars.
20:25:43 <madduck> hallo
20:25:49 <RichiH> moin
20:26:07 <formorer> huhu.
20:26:38 <madduck> formorer: we put "child care" onto the agenda… anything at this point?
20:26:48 <madduck> you are now officially in charge ;)
20:27:10 * RichiH points to loni
20:27:34 <formorer> the only thing I wanted to say that we really should try to provide childcare. the froscon team has a few years experience with childcare, so it should be doable.
20:28:04 <madduck> define child care?
20:28:18 <formorer> a kindergarten
20:28:26 <formorer> afair vom 2 or 3 years on.
20:28:26 <azeem> formorer: heya! can you get one of them to (shortly) write up their experience for the list, maybe?
20:28:53 <madduck> so full-day and professionals…
20:28:55 <azeem> experience in organizing it I mean
20:29:22 <formorer> probably, yes. I know they had two professional  kindergarten worker that did the thing for free
20:29:32 <madduck> formorer: we would need to know costs involved, and find a location, because I am not sure on-site will work.
20:30:00 <madduck> and then find a team who will ensure presence for the whole 8 days…
20:30:11 <loni> tought we would do it at our same
20:30:21 <marga> madduck: why would on-site not work?
20:30:33 <marga> There's a child games room, and lots of grass
20:30:35 <madduck> marga: not a whole lot of space; there is a play area, but it's small.
20:30:48 <madduck> marga: depends on the number of kids…
20:30:52 <marga> Sure
20:31:02 <madduck> loni: can you talk with formorer and figure this out?
20:31:09 <marga> But planning for the space will need to be done depending on the number of kids.
20:31:17 <azeem> we should tell people at DC14 they should hold off on making new babies until after DC15 then
20:31:22 <marga> However I would really think it's best for everyone to do it onsite
20:31:23 <azeem> if there is not enough space
20:31:25 <madduck> formorer: in HD we said we would just be parents and babysit for each other; you want professional babysitting, so…
20:31:42 <loni> thats the most important point, thouht we should wait for interest of the atendees
20:31:53 <formorer> madduck: I said I want childcare. not that it has to be professional
20:31:57 <madduck> oki
20:32:04 <formorer> some self organized childcare is fine too
20:32:15 <formorer> but it should be somehow organized
20:32:17 <loni> only onsite its makeable i think
20:32:27 <madduck> yeah
20:32:27 <marga> Well, we can help with the orga, so "semi-self" organized
20:32:43 <loni> so the parents are near
20:32:49 <formorer> loni: ack
20:33:25 <madduck> formorer, loni: so can you two keep this on your agendas and be in charge?
20:33:27 <formorer> I am pretty sure my wife wants to help too
20:33:34 <loni> yeah
20:33:42 <RichiH> if it's at all possible, i think some professional support can't hurt
20:33:50 <RichiH> even if it's only for insurance, etc
20:33:54 <madduck> yeah, I think it would be easiest, actually
20:34:08 <RichiH> but it should also rely on parents being willing to chip in
20:34:10 <madduck> the question is really how much would it cost and how much would you be willing to pay for a child/day
20:34:20 <madduck> because I think this would need to be a paid service
20:34:35 <loni> my idea is to play and do some action with the kids 2-3 hours for and after lung
20:34:39 <loni> lunch
20:34:53 <madduck> can i pretend to be a kid? ;)
20:35:08 <loni> self organized whith different parents thei join and help
20:35:27 <azeem> well, I think it would be difficult and quite an overhead to charge for it
20:35:32 <azeem> we should budget it IMO
20:36:23 <marga> It depends on how much it is.
20:36:25 <madduck> loni: I think having one professional there all the time would be good; and then parents on shift.
20:36:49 <loni> of course,  if its possible whith the budget
20:36:52 <madduck> azeem: if it's 50€/day, then it's probably too much, but in either case, I think we should not offer it for free
20:37:02 <madduck> and if only because the tax office might not like it
20:37:11 <azeem> formorer: you said FrOSCon has/had professional caretakers, do you know how they managed to get them (apparently for free)?
20:37:20 <madduck> but if we charged e.g. 5€/day and covered the rest from budget, then I am sure it would be ok.
20:37:45 <RichiH> madduck: educating children and giving them the possibility to interact with children from a diverse brackground is surely tax exempt...
20:37:47 <azeem> well I think it would be nicer if we just managed to include it in the accomodation
20:38:10 <RichiH> madduck: small surcharge would also be fine
20:38:16 <formorer> azeem: afair some girl friends.
20:38:22 <azeem> ok
20:38:26 <madduck> RichiH: not within our tax-exempt purpose
20:38:28 <RichiH> though we would need to see what to do with sponsored attendees
20:38:42 <RichiH> madduck: hmm, point taken
20:38:55 <formorer> we should maybe also ask Dominik George, he did the froglabs on the froscon
20:38:56 <madduck> alright, loni and formorer are in charge of that, and this I think concludes the agenda, no?
20:38:58 <RichiH> madduck: but we still have a year to change our bylaws!
20:39:08 * madduck sinks RichiH's ship
20:39:21 <RichiH> you sunk my battleship <3
20:39:34 <madduck> formorer: froglabs sound fun
20:39:35 <formorer> http://kids.froscon.de/
20:39:41 <madduck> I am all in favour of a kids track!!
20:39:50 <madduck> it would be great.
20:39:50 <RichiH> madduck: tech-ish activities for older kids
20:39:52 <_rene_> I've something website'ish which I just though of when that kids discussion finished
20:40:03 <madduck> _rene_: just start…
20:40:40 <_rene_> given I don't have much css clue I wonder how we can add sponsor logos (unless someone tells me how to make the change contrast thing change them, too)
20:40:42 <loni> sounds great but more for older kids
20:40:50 <RichiH> http://www.luusa.org/ -- what a name...
20:40:54 <_rene_> black logo with transparent background is not good on black...
20:41:12 <_rene_> (well, in this case js/css)
20:41:30 <azeem> I suggest a grey side-pane as background which is always the same color
20:41:32 <_rene_> or dark one, even google probably is bad on black
20:41:43 <_rene_> or we have a white box around it which looks.... bad.
20:42:24 <madduck> I wonder what it would look like to have the header be black and changeable, but have the rest of the page actually be white
20:42:30 <madduck> I think websites should be black on white ;)
20:42:49 <azeem> light grey*
20:43:12 <madduck> sure
20:44:45 <_rene_> anyway, we should keep this in mind. but it's out of scope here now probably.
20:45:01 <_rene_> need to mail valessio for the "white logo bug" anyway
20:45:20 <_rene_> and can ask him how this should work with sponsor logos
20:46:22 <madduck> cool
20:46:27 <madduck> so anything else? questions?
20:46:32 <madduck> thanks for your participation!
20:46:45 <marga> I guess, it's endmeeting then
20:46:48 <marga> #endmeeting