21:00:08 #startmeeting 21:00:08 bubulle, eh. thanks so much, you saved my day/DNS setup fiddling ;) 21:00:08 Meeting started Mon Nov 16 21:00:08 2009 UTC. The chair is bubulle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:00:08 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 21:00:14 * otavio waves 21:00:52 otavio: last meeting, you were mostly alone. This time we're apparently the 2 of us..:-) 21:01:29 bubulle: yes; we aren't lucky those days 21:02:00 well, the lack of activity on the ML (except work by fjp) doesn't help that much... 21:02:19 ok, so what's the status of quik (apparently a ppc bootloader that doesn't quite work for me; I don't know zilch about that kind of box, admittedly). 21:02:35 so we can probably start on the one and only topic: release 21:02:38 yes; but we have been hold by DAK changes 21:02:59 otavio: sure, but they're away now, right? 21:03:00 we're still waiting for linux kernel udebs for mips to pass thorught NEW queue 21:03:20 bubulle: somewhat but NEW queue still holds we up 21:03:35 Ganneff: any ETA for mips udebs processing? 21:04:03 * mhy looks 21:04:04 Just today i've setup a qemu-system-ppc box with the daily build of the netinstall mini.iso; It prompted me for kbd layout twice (which may or may not be fixed by fjp's recent ci, didn't look) 21:04:11 otavio: uhm 21:04:12 linux-kernel-di-mips-2.6_1.17_multi.changes 21:04:12 REJECT 21:04:12 The key (0x2EA8994049A5F855) used to sign linux-kernel-di-mips-2.6_1.17.dsc wasn't found in the keyring(s). 21:04:15 any other things that need to get done before the release process starts? 21:04:18 * mhy scratches his head 21:04:30 otavio: have you changed your key recently? 21:04:37 blindvt: see mailing list. These topics are currently handled (more or less) 21:04:52 mhy: It has been changed today? :-) 21:04:57 bubulle, k, /me takes mental note 21:05:23 otavio: I'llk talk to you about it after the meeting 21:05:46 mhy: this is my 1024 bit key; my new 4096 has been waiting to get in for 4 weeks or so 21:05:49 mhy: ok 21:05:50 otavio: what about the new cdrom-detect and di-utils? It seems that cdrom -detect breaks some builds, right? 21:06:04 * otavio looks 21:06:22 otavio: I might need you to re-upload with a new signature then 21:06:33 otavio: as the change seems to have propogated 21:07:04 mhy: ok; we can do it after meeting then. No problem for me. 21:07:09 again from my (innocent bystander's POV) there are 2 points open: you use the somewhat ancient 1.14.x busybox and should bump that to 1.15.2; You use a >1.4MB (!!) libc instead of uClibc (<< estimated 500k) 21:07:14 otavio: I'll reject the existing upload 21:07:41 blindvt: sorry but let's talk about it after meeting? 21:07:56 mhy: ok 21:08:09 bubulle: coming back ... 21:08:10 blindvt: well, please don't jump on topics randomly....the ML, again is probably more appropriate for this 21:08:24 The former -- busybox bump -- may not be too pressing since you're somewhat up to date; But wasting a couple of MB for a gazillions of users is just gross ,again IMH(biased)O 21:08:41 bubulle: I did the cdrom-detect upload since Debian Live needs the fix on 1.32 21:08:44 k. sorry 21:08:49 * blindvt -v 21:09:16 otavio: so that needs to go to testing and so does di-utils that seems to go with it 21:09:53 bubulle: yes; di-utils is howding few builds to happen 21:09:56 So, as blockers we have the linux kernel udebs for mips, cdrom-detect to enter testing and same for di-utils 21:10:06 bubulle: and since cdrom-detect depends on newer di-utils it has broken builds 21:10:31 bubulle: both are fast to solve once we have DAK in shape (looks it happened today) 21:10:34 mhy: right? 21:11:16 otavio: dak is mainly fixed, yes 21:11:17 bubulle: localechooser changes are also important to have in 21:11:31 otavio: yes, I was about to talk about them 21:11:33 otavio: although I've a suspicion you'll trip us up again at the actual d-i release with the byhand stuff 21:11:36 bubulle: BTW, can you comment about fjp and collin changes? 21:11:47 fjp is doing great job which we definitely want in a release 21:11:55 mhy: hah; I'll be do my best ;-) 21:12:07 I think I'm on fjp's "side" 21:12:18 bubulle: any reason? 21:12:39 the test images he produced are very impressive and I think he has a consistent rationale for the various changes 21:13:08 bubulle: what about the mobile use-case presented by cjwatson ? 21:13:23 bubulle: do you believe it handles it as well? 21:13:30 about the disagreement with cjwatson, I think that Frans arguments are fair and he's adressing the original motivations of Colin by his changes to localechooser 21:13:53 right 21:14:40 otavio: "mobile use case". I need to come back on the thread to exactly answer 21:15:24 bubulle: about the crazyness of someone that live in a place that talks a completely different language and he wants to use his computer as his born place and like. 21:15:35 bubulle: but IIRC it addresses it as well 21:16:02 otavio: that was my test opf someone installing in Italian while living in Argentina and wanting a Swiss Italian locale 21:16:15 perfectly addressed by fjp changes..:-) 21:16:16 bubulle: yes; I recall it now 21:16:33 bubulle: so I think I support your and, by conseguence, fjp side :-) 21:17:04 bubulle: in this case we need to revert cjwatson changes and go with fjp proposed ones as well 21:17:11 so, as said, and with all respect due to Colin (I think everybody knows how high I place it), I think that changes proposed by Frans are the way to go. 21:17:33 bubulle: I think fjp is the best person to handle the migration to his proposal 21:18:13 bubulle: the only pro I see for Colin's proposal is that it doesn't increase the initrd size (but runtime size it does) 21:18:28 yes...and I think we need all his pending work about these issue in the release. Not delay the release for it if possible (but, well, it's already delayed a lot anyway) 21:18:47 bubulle: but fjp's one increases initrd a bit only and don't much at runtime 21:18:52 the chang ein initrd size in fjp proposal is not that big 21:19:02 bubulle: do I'm fjp proposal too 21:19:26 yes, we should focus in getting it all into release 21:19:33 what I like in both proposals is offering the possibility to choose UTC during interactive installs 21:20:01 so let's talk to him and ask for him to upload the pending stuff and sort of "freeze" uploads for release then 21:20:17 for all these connected together changes, I think that Frans can (if he's OK to) coordinate the migraiton of the needed material 21:21:09 bubulle: for this release the migration is quite easy; basically migrate everything. For next one it is harder since we want to avoid breaking testing installer 21:21:16 bubulle: but this one it is trivial 21:21:16 otavio: what about partman-ext3? We still have 55 in testing and 58 in unstable 21:21:25 bubulle: it is due mips udebs 21:21:33 arrrrrr 21:21:48 bubulle: partman-ext3 depends on ext4 and it has not added on mips by mistake 21:22:54 otavio: could you by any chance try to build a release timeline so that we're not in the dark? 21:23:12 There might be some unknown variables but still, that could help 21:23:23 bubulle: as soon as NEW queue is handled we can; otherwise is just a darness for everyone 21:23:55 mhy: any chance that di-related things get high priority in NEW processing? 21:24:36 bubulle: they do; it was technical issues that made it to delay 21:24:43 mhy: :) 21:25:14 ah, so we can say that we do'nt release because of the evil ftpmasters? Gooood 21:25:33 mhy: can we, after meeting, handle mips udebs together? so it is not stuck again? 21:25:37 (for anybody not aware of this, the above is a P.U.N. 21:25:42 bubulle: sure. It is all their fault :P 21:26:13 bubulle: no; we had a lot of things changing but indeed DAK changes has come in a bad time since we were finally getting in the release time. 21:26:16 otavio: yes 21:26:18 bubulle: but it is done now. 21:26:25 bubulle: you should have said eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevilllll 21:26:26 bubulle: so it will work fine from now on 21:27:06 mhy: good 21:27:09 mhy: lol 21:27:22 well, then I propose we don't make the meeting last for too long, then and just leave you guys time to work on these issues..:-) 21:27:49 bubulle: any other thing to handle today? 21:28:13 mhy: I'm building mips udebs right now 21:28:33 not really: all I had in my mid was: release and "locale"related" stuff 21:28:52 can I Just ask, as I'm here, what the svn/git status is? Or should I wait for AOB? 21:28:59 otavio: what I'd like to propose is having a short meeting in a few days to see where we are 21:29:03 I'm just a bit confused due to the appearance of git modules on git.d.o 21:29:18 bubulle: sure; we can schedule something for end of this week? 21:29:28 mhy: my idea is to push it after a1 release 21:29:39 mhy: and I do support the migration 21:29:40 otavio: except that I'll be away on Sat+Sun, yes..:-) 21:29:51 I should be back home on Sun evening, though 21:29:52 bubulle: we can do it at Thu 21:29:59 bubulle: or monday 21:30:29 bubulle: however as soon as I get unblocks added and new processed we can have a kind of schedule for release 21:31:36 OK, let's say a small meeting on Thu, but 21:30 UTC if you don't mind (and no more than 30 minutes, preferrably) 21:31:51 bubulle: can be 21:31:56 then we'll see on Thu if we need another such very focused meeting 21:32:07 bubulle: suer 21:32:13 bubulle: sure 21:32:34 ok, then...let's close the meeting unless there is somethign I'm forgettign 21:32:51 bubulle: please do 21:32:58 #endmeeting