Started logging meeting in #olpc-europe, times are UTC.<br />
[17:03:02] &lt;h01ger&gt; anybody can give #link s which will show up in the minutes..<br />
[17:03:08] &lt;h01ger&gt; the other commands are for the chair<br />
[17:03:17] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic agenda<br />
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[17:03:25] &lt;h01ger&gt; Agenda<br />
[17:03:26] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Short introduction of ourselves (5 min)<br />
[17:03:26] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Brainstorm / Vision (15 - 20 min)<br />
[17:03:26] &lt;h01ger&gt;  What purposes could OLPC Europe serve<br />
[17:03:26] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Participation (15 - 20 min)<br />
[17:03:26] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Who wants to get involved<br />
[17:03:28] &lt;h01ger&gt;  spending his/her time on what topic(s)<br />
[17:03:30] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Events (15 - 20 min)<br />
[17:03:32] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Presentations / Workshops at events<br />
[17:03:34] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Who will be where doing what? (if known yet)<br />
[17:03:36] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Which group would need how many xo laptops? (5 min)<br />
[17:03:38] &lt;h01ger&gt;  Next Meeting (5 min)<br />
[17:03:40] &lt;h01ger&gt; #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe/Meetings<br />
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[17:03:51] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic  Short introduction of ourselves<br />
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[17:04:06] &lt;h01ger&gt; please introduce yourself, preferedly with your real name too :)<br />
[17:04:29] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; most know each other a bit, but it would be nice to introduce us<br />
[17:04:40] * crazy-chris is Chris Hager from Vienna, currently working on xo-get, imagequiz, communication & coordination topics and the contributors program<br />
[17:05:17] * h01ger = Holger Levsen, Debian Developer from Hamburg, Germany. Has been involved in the schoolserver, in olpc.de and with debian on olpc (blog post pending :) - in debian i currently mostly do Debian Edu (education) stuff and conference videos<br />
[17:06:02] &lt;h01ger&gt; anybody else here? :)<br />
[17:06:05] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; Gregor Martynus & Marco Rauschenbach, Germany, we are interested in founding a German grassroots organizations and plan do be 2 months in ethiopia (OLPC Pilot)<br />
[17:06:06] * sjoerd = Sjoer Simons. Debian developer from Eindhoven, The netherlands. I work on telepathy for OLPC<br />
[17:06:09] * vircuser = Diana Cionoiu, Romania, involved in "Asociatia pentru un Soft Liber", trying to promote OLPC in .ro<br />
[17:06:17] &lt;ChristophD&gt; ChristophD = Christoph Derndorfer, also Vienna, OLPC Austria, working on the Activity Handbook<br />
[17:06:21] * b457144n is Bastiaan Bakker software developer from the Netherlands, currently involved in setting up OLPC-NL grassroots, translating into Dutch.<br />
[17:06:21] &lt;ryd&gt; = Jens Muecke, OpenWRT Developer, Hamburg Germany<br />
[17:07:17] * rwh = Reinier Heeres, Dutch developer working as an intern for OLPC on Sugar, Read, Calculate, Journal<br />
[17:07:26] &lt;h01ger&gt; so currently we are from .at, .ro, .nl and .de :)<br />
[17:07:45] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; where is fr?<br />
[17:07:52] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; :)<br />
[17:08:10] &lt;b457144n&gt; [florian]?<br />
[17:08:15] &lt;ryd&gt; {Nico} is from .fr<br />
[17:08:18] * h01ger suggests to move on. i'll have to go in (about) an hour... <br />
[17:08:28] &lt;ryd&gt; me too<br />
[17:08:31] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; okay<br />
[17:08:49] * h01ger pings  ryd Gregor_Marco kikka vircuser crazy-chris Kiko ChristophD rwh sjoerd h01ger sj meetbot b457144n jaume CanoeBerry massoud cafl {Nico} [florian] @nbd  and goes to the next point<br />
[17:09:06] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic Brainstorm / Vision:  What purposes could OLPC Europe serve   (15 - 20 min)<br />
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[17:09:37] &lt;h01ger&gt; did everybody here receive the proposal crazy-chris send around?<br />
[17:09:51] &lt;vircuser&gt; h01ger > for what?<br />
[17:09:53] * rwh not<br />
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[17:10:00] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Olpc_europe_mindmap.pdf<br />
[17:10:21] &lt;h01ger&gt; this and...<br />
[17:10:29] * b457144n looks at mindmap<br />
[17:10:41] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; 1 sec... uploading<br />
[17:10:57] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; * don't know it yet<br />
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[17:11:00] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Olpc_europe_text.pdf<br />
[17:11:22] * h01ger suggest a 3min break so everybody can catch up with those documents<br />
[17:12:44] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; sorry for the late docs; we are working day and night :)<br />
[17:13:04] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; very good starting point, thanks chris!<br />
[17:13:26] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, hi. backlog at http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/olpc-europe.log.20080110_1702.html :-)<br />
[17:13:47] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: thx<br />
[17:13:54] &lt;yokoy&gt; hallo everybody<br />
[17:13:54] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; the thinking was done by aaron, me and an overhaul with holger<br />
[17:14:18] * h01ger likes the guidelines except he would write down that olpc europe will not become a political instrument. i agree its no priority but i wouldnt say its a core principle not to be one<br />
[17:14:31] &lt;h01ger&gt; s/would/would not/<br />
[17:14:39] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok<br />
[17:14:47] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; Vision -> IS NOT -> going to act as political instrument<br />
[17:14:50] &lt;l-fy&gt; i don't agree with the points made by Chris in his document<br />
[17:15:01] * h01ger concludes the 3min are over and we can discuss this now :)<br />
[17:15:20] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, ? - thats exactly what i criticised<br />
[17:15:30] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; ah, okay<br />
[17:15:35] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, with what exactly do you disagree and what do you propose?<br />
[17:15:40] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok, i see OLPC in general that is a political project<br />
[17:15:58] &lt;l-fy&gt; so by default anything like a OLPC Europe will have a political goal<br />
[17:16:07] &lt;l-fy&gt; to get OLPC in schools<br />
[17:16:44] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, is this the only thing you disagree with?<br />
[17:16:51] * h01ger trying to focus the discussion...<br />
[17:16:55] &lt;h01ger&gt; other opinions?<br />
[17:17:02] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; we think a key aspect is transparency in both ways europe grassrooots <-> boston<br />
[17:17:12] &lt;l-fy&gt; to be honest, i don't care much about the development, because that will happend anyway and YES i do think is important to syncronize but open source developers do that for years without an organization<br />
[17:17:15] &lt;ryd&gt; l-fy: when a local group is political, it is ok<br />
[17:17:24] &lt;h01ger&gt; Gregor_Marco, *heavily agree* :)<br />
[17:18:02] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; all local groups should do what they want to / feel like is important<br />
[17:18:17] &lt;l-fy&gt; crazy-chris > i agree, but we are talking now about OLPC Europe<br />
[17:18:27] &lt;l-fy&gt; whcih is not obviosly a local group<br />
[17:18:40] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes, but that's not two seperate topics; the crosspoints have to be defined<br />
[17:18:49] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok<br />
[17:18:49] * h01ger also doesnt think olpc europe should be political as a main "feature" (because education is not an european thing, but a local thing) - but i wouldnt define olpc europe as non-political. i would rather (as the document does) focus on documenting what we intend to do<br />
[17:18:51] &lt;b457144n&gt; I agree with l-fy that OLPCs goals are intrinsically political<br />
[17:19:10] &lt;l-fy&gt; can we vote on that point<br />
[17:19:11] &lt;l-fy&gt; ?<br />
[17:19:13] * Gregor_Marco agree with holger<br />
[17:19:29] &lt;l-fy&gt; i mean about political side?<br />
[17:19:29] * ryd agree to h01ger <br />
[17:19:46] &lt;h01ger&gt; we wont lobby in brussels. we will lobby in berlin, paris, bucarest, etc. (and maybe in hamburg, lyon, etc too)<br />
[17:19:55] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes<br />
[17:19:59] &lt;l-fy&gt; political usually means to get support from OLPC Europe if local grassroots require on the political side<br />
[17:20:07] * b457144n agrees with h01ger<br />
[17:20:22] &lt;l-fy&gt; h01ger > for me is important that we will lobby in Brusseles and let me explain you why<br />
[17:20:23] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; so we agree to take out "not going to act political..." from the text<br />
[17:20:31] &lt;yokoy&gt; i do not get the point of the discussion<br />
[17:20:31] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, please explain<br />
[17:20:43] &lt;yokoy&gt; we can't be not politcal<br />
[17:20:44] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, i'd say so, es<br />
[17:20:53] &lt;l-fy&gt; because in Romania we only do things that are comming from Brusseles and the same goes for most east european countries which need the most olpc<br />
[17:21:01] &lt;yokoy&gt; even if we do not want to<br />
[17:22:19] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; okay, so we agreed on taking 'political' out from the text, and see how will/can be political<br />
[17:22:20] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; yes, thats the point<br />
[17:22:37] &lt;b457144n&gt; ayone against that?<br />
[17:22:44] &lt;b457144n&gt; if not let's move to the next point<br />
[17:22:52] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, OLPC is political, for sure. but i'm not conviced OLPC europe should be political, even despite what l-fy says. (because in germany, brussels is completly irrelevant regarding school education)<br />
[17:22:59] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; what can we see in o-e?<br />
[17:23:13] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed take 'political' out from the text, and see how will/can be political<br />
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[17:23:20] &lt;sj&gt; hiya<br />
[17:23:28] &lt;l-fy&gt; hi sj<br />
[17:23:31] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; hey<br />
[17:23:44] &lt;l-fy&gt; next point > pilot project<br />
[17:23:49] &lt;h01ger&gt; sj,  hi. backlog at http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/olpc-europe.log.20080110_1702.html :-)<br />
[17:23:59] &lt;b457144n&gt; l-fy: you take the words out of my mouth<br />
[17:24:16] * h01ger doesnt think we are done yet<br />
[17:24:18] &lt;l-fy&gt; i think that OLPC Europe should help people that want to do pilot projects in their country and they can't with both skills and money<br />
[17:24:30] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok h01ger, i appologize, go on<br />
[17:24:36] * h01ger disagrees with l-fy (on pilots)<br />
[17:24:42] &lt;ChristophD&gt; hello sj<br />
[17:24:43] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, no problem<br />
[17:24:54] &lt;b457144n&gt; h01ger: I feel that doing a pilot can be very convincing politically<br />
[17:24:57] * crazy-chris also disagrees on pilots. we have no money, and who has time?<br />
[17:25:05] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, exactly<br />
[17:25:07] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; we can share information and contacts though<br />
[17:26:08] &lt;h01ger&gt; regarding our vision and the rest of the agenda, i would suggest to send this document to the grassroots lists now and discuss it there and in the next meeting "formally" define these as our guidelines. (hopefully :)<br />
[17:26:09] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; anything 'pilots'?<br />
[17:26:24] &lt;l-fy&gt; crazy-chris > you don't have the money and the time<br />
[17:26:29] * crazy-chris agrees<br />
[17:26:34] &lt;l-fy&gt; but maybe i'm willing to help Bulgaria<br />
[17:26:36] &lt;b457144n&gt; I thinks to point is that oplc-europe shouldnt DO pilots but help with exchanging experiences etc<br />
[17:26:40] &lt;l-fy&gt; or other countries<br />
[17:26:48] &lt;l-fy&gt; the point is<br />
[17:26:54] &lt;b457144n&gt; I'm very interested in pilots in other countries<br />
[17:26:58] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, then (IMHO) you should do so for olpc.bu<br />
[17:27:00] &lt;l-fy&gt; OLPC Europe doesn't do pilots but helps the grassroots<br />
[17:27:03] &lt;l-fy&gt; with anything that can<br />
[17:27:04] &lt;b457144n&gt; to help me setup one in NL<br />
[17:27:46] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; l-fy: agreed on that<br />
[17:27:53] &lt;h01ger&gt; yup<br />
[17:27:54] &lt;yokoy&gt; l-fy: me too<br />
[17:28:04] &lt;_bernie&gt; Hello, Europe!<br />
[17:28:06] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed OLPC Europe doesn't do pilots but helps the grassroots<br />
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[17:28:09] &lt;b457144n&gt; e.g. we can build on eachothers promotional material,  implementations scenarios, etc.<br />
[17:28:15] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; we agree with l-fy. The best way, olpc europe could help, is to become a good contact point to boston, a channel, so that local grassroots don't need to contact boston semself<br />
[17:28:19] &lt;h01ger&gt; _bernie, aferti,  hi. backlog at http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/olpc-europe.log.20080110_1702.html :-)<br />
[17:28:29] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; Gregor_Marco: absolutely<br />
[17:28:34] &lt;_bernie&gt; h01ger: thanks!<br />
[17:28:45] * h01ger nods b457144n and Gregor_Marco <br />
[17:28:47] &lt;aferti&gt; Regards to Europe on my behalf too.<br />
[17:28:56] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; this could take a bit of work off the mit people and focus discussions<br />
[17:29:04] &lt;ChristophD&gt; _bernie, hey :)<br />
[17:29:10] * h01ger waves over the ocean :)<br />
[17:29:17] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; yes, chris<br />
[17:29:35] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed The best way, olpc europe could help, is to become a good contact point to boston, a channel, so that local grassroots don't need to contact boston semself<br />
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[17:29:45] &lt;b457144n&gt; so, how do we best organize communication with Boston?<br />
[17:29:50] &lt;rwh&gt; If I understand correctly people are interesting in deploying XO's locally, not in remote developing countries (which is what I had expected)?<br />
[17:30:17] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; no<br />
[17:30:18] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; b457144n: this will evolve<br />
[17:30:39] * h01ger nods crazy-chris .oO( mail and irc mostly, i guess :)<br />
[17:30:42] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; rwf: OLPC for everyone :-)<br />
[17:30:49] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes, and we can discuss things on the grassroots list, before contacting boston people<br />
[17:31:19] &lt;h01ger&gt; rwh, thats the goal of olpc. we are olpc europe :) and most of us also intend to work in olpc :)<br />
[17:31:35] &lt;aferti&gt; Btw, here is .gr.<br />
[17:31:37] &lt;h01ger&gt; IMHO<br />
[17:31:45] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; how do you all feel about the grassroots and a seperate europe mailing list?<br />
[17:31:52] &lt;rwh&gt; h01ger: the goal on OLPC is *mostly* aimed at developing countries I would say<br />
[17:32:03] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; grassroots okay for all or any protests<br />
[17:32:05] * h01ger thinks its not neccessary yet (a europe list) - later, yes<br />
[17:32:20] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: agree<br />
[17:32:20] * crazy-chris basically agrees <br />
[17:32:21] &lt;ChristophD&gt; agree with h01ger<br />
[17:32:31] &lt;b457144n&gt; agree, not another list<br />
[17:32:37] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; agree<br />
[17:32:51] &lt;yokoy&gt; b457144n: not yet...<br />
[17:32:58] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed we will use the grassroots lists for now - maybe, probably, later a dedicated list is fine..<br />
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[17:33:12] &lt;l-fy&gt; wait<br />
[17:33:17] &lt;l-fy&gt; i have something to say on this point<br />
[17:33:41] * crazy-chris reminds: half-time<br />
[17:33:42] &lt;l-fy&gt; i want a europe mail list because it will speed up things a lot<br />
[17:34:10] &lt;ChristophD&gt; how will it speed things up?<br />
[17:34:11] &lt;l-fy&gt; plus that if we make a mail list we can keep the history in the same place and no one can say that we didn't had a debate<br />
[17:34:32] &lt;l-fy&gt; because is a starting point since we've already agree that we want olpc europe<br />
[17:34:41] &lt;l-fy&gt; and we have to start with organizations from a point<br />
[17:34:46] &lt;ChristophD&gt; all discussions from the europe list can now be had on the grassroots list and only when it reaches a critical mass you start a new seperate list (IMHO)<br />
[17:34:48] &lt;l-fy&gt; and the first thing is to be on the same place<br />
[17:34:50] &lt;ryd&gt; l-fy: how many list your are reading normally?<br />
[17:34:55] &lt;l-fy&gt; ryd > 5<br />
[17:35:15] &lt;h01ger&gt; does anybody agree with l-fy that we need a europe list now? otherwise i'd say, lets move on. (and sorry l-fy :)<br />
[17:35:19] * crazy-chris suggests discussing that next week again<br />
[17:35:24] &lt;l-fy&gt; wait<br />
[17:35:29] &lt;ryd&gt; l-fy: for me, I have more and not want any more<br />
[17:35:30] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; i'd say no also<br />
[17:35:31] &lt;yokoy&gt; no, we do not need it yet<br />
[17:35:33] &lt;l-fy&gt; is really really important to start from somewhere<br />
[17:35:41] * h01ger suggests not to discuss topics frequently again and again. in a month, yes<br />
[17:35:46] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok, can we talk about a starting point or a road map?<br />
[17:35:52] &lt;yokoy&gt; l-fy: yes, maybe in a few weeks<br />
[17:35:56] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok<br />
[17:35:59] &lt;h01ger&gt; ok<br />
[17:36:04] &lt;h01ger&gt; anything else to vision?<br />
[17:36:05] &lt;b457144n&gt; I agree with rwh that we do want to make it easier for people to help setup remote deployments. E.g. for GiveMany initiatives.<br />
[17:36:08] &lt;l-fy&gt; unfortunatlly is something i have to mention<br />
[17:36:23] &lt;l-fy&gt; Romania is one of the countries where Microsoft is porting Windows on OLPC<br />
[17:36:43] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, how is that related to defining our vision?<br />
[17:36:43] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; l-fy: < 2 min, please<br />
[17:36:49] &lt;l-fy&gt; long i wait i decrease the chances to have an OLPC Linux in .ro<br />
[17:36:56] &lt;b457144n&gt; E.g. people in NL are trying to setup up a project in Suriname, but we have no clue how people can support deployment<br />
[17:37:34] &lt;l-fy&gt; so i agree that will not be the mail list the starting point, but something else but we need a starting point now<br />
[17:37:45] * h01ger thinks b457144n and rwh brought up an important point to our vision: we want to help remote deployments too. right?<br />
[17:37:45] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; we have the starting point *here*<br />
[17:37:46] &lt;b457144n&gt; Boston is more focussed on large deployment than GiveMany of a few hundred laptops<br />
[17:38:00] &lt;b457144n&gt; I suspect..<br />
[17:38:03] &lt;l-fy&gt; crazy-chris > here is nothing as long as you don't exist for the outside world<br />
[17:38:13] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; agree, we want remote deployments too<br />
[17:38:28] &lt;l-fy&gt; agree h01ger and Gregor_Marco<br />
[17:38:37] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; next topic?<br />
[17:38:47] &lt;l-fy&gt; a starting point?<br />
[17:38:47] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, thats "bringing our vision to the world" but not "defining our vision" - which is the currnet topic :)<br />
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[17:38:51] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe<br />
[17:38:54] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, yes<br />
[17:39:10] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed  we want to help remote deployments too.<br />
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[17:39:20] &lt;l-fy&gt; if we can't even do a mail list how can we do an organization?<br />
[17:39:39] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; l-fy: please try to be constructive<br />
[17:39:40] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic (15-20min) Participation - Who wants to get involved /  spending his/her time on what topic(s)<br />
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[17:39:48] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, we have a list...<br />
[17:39:50] &lt;h01ger&gt; hi maks_ :)<br />
[17:40:09] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; so participation<br />
[17:40:26] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, do you want to work on the olpc europe website? flyers? other promo material?<br />
[17:41:04] * ryd want t-shirts :)<br />
[17:41:08] &lt;l-fy&gt; h01ger > i've already offered my self voluteer for putting up the mail list and also one of my .at friends offered a virtual machine fully for the OLPC Europe<br />
[17:41:35] &lt;b457144n&gt; I'd like to work on a guide for setting up a local pilot. and for remote deployments too, for that matter.<br />
[17:41:39] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; l-fy: what would you want to do except the mailing list?<br />
[17:41:56] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; we want to help getting more transparency in Europe, we already work on concepts<br />
[17:42:02] * h01ger wants to network with people and help with the website, which imo should be mostly in the laptop.org wiki, with a dedicated domain for easier handout. (think www.olpc-europe.info redirecting (or promptly linking) to laptop.org/Go/Europe) - and i dont want to discuss this details here and now ;)<br />
[17:42:05] &lt;b457144n&gt; But I don't have the time or experience to do that on my own<br />
[17:42:05] &lt;vircuser&gt; log please<br />
[17:42:13] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; b457144n: starting guide is great. there can be a lot of connection done, since there are pilots in many european countries<br />
[17:42:29] &lt;h01ger&gt; vircuser, hi. backlog at http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/olpc-europe.log.20080110_1702.html :-)<br />
[17:42:37] &lt;b457144n&gt; crazy-chris: do we have a list of that?<br />
[17:42:45] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; we make a todo list right now<br />
[17:43:08] &lt;b457144n&gt; crazy-chris: I mean a list of pilots<br />
[17:43:25] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, can you create the todo list on wiki.laptop.org please? :)<br />
[17:43:25] * b457144n thinks a todo list is a good idea as well<br />
<a name='13'></a>
[17:43:27] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe/ToDo<br />
[17:43:28] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; starting guide would be great, the exchange of experiences (in pilots) is very important. That is a big problem in Ethipia<br />
[17:43:37] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, cheers!<br />
[17:44:09] &lt;l-fy&gt; well, can i have a proposal for OLPCE website?<br />
[17:44:20] &lt;b457144n&gt; Gregor_Marco, who is doing Ethiopia?<br />
[17:44:24] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, i dont think we should duplicate infrastructures. more work, more likely to fail, etc<br />
[17:44:44] * b457144n agrees with h01ger about infra<br />
[17:44:45] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; l-fy: what would you like to have on this extra website?<br />
[17:44:48] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; #link http://ecbp.biz/<br />
<a name='14'></a>
[17:45:20] * h01ger proposes to create a project on dev.laptop.org so that we have a VCS repository. should i send a mail and ask for one? (so that we can keep our documents (like flyers etc) there...)<br />
[17:45:25] &lt;b457144n&gt; Gregor_Marco: thanks<br />
[17:45:27] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; sorry, the link is about the Ethiopian project, OLPC Pilot is a sub project<br />
[17:46:01] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; h01ger: i think basically a very good idea. usual way is a project application<br />
[17:46:05] &lt;l-fy&gt; well, i want a wiki for the usage manual translated in all the languages<br />
[17:46:07] * h01ger nods<br />
[17:46:23] &lt;l-fy&gt; and a consolidated blog about the pilot projects and what's going on in europe in general<br />
[17:46:28] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action holger will apply for an "olpc europe" project to have a vcs to store documents in<br />
<a name='15'></a>
[17:46:31] &lt;sj&gt; re: mailing lists<br />
[17:46:38] &lt;l-fy&gt; which is low traffic and also translated<br />
[17:46:46] &lt;sj&gt; please see: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Specifications#Communication<br />
[17:46:50] &lt;yokoy&gt; I would like to have a groupware incl projektmanagement<br />
[17:47:01] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; everyone who wants access to the git repo should send h01ger a mail with the ssh key<br />
[17:47:09] &lt;l-fy&gt; one more reason to have a separate website<br />
[17:47:11] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; yokoy: we can offer basecamp<br />
[17:47:27] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, webbased?<br />
[17:47:28] &lt;l-fy&gt; OLPC fundation anyway in general doesn't agree with local fundations<br />
[17:47:39] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: maybe<br />
[17:47:50] &lt;ChristophD&gt; l-fy, what do you mean???<br />
[17:47:50] &lt;l-fy&gt; so in order to keep the independence we need something separate from laptop.org<br />
[17:47:51] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: if there is a fine one...<br />
[17:48:08] &lt;ChristophD&gt; how doesnt OLPC agree with local groups and where are you getting that from?<br />
[17:48:10] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, what do you have in midn?<br />
[17:48:21] &lt;l-fy&gt; ChristophD > OLPC fundations doesn't agree with local OLPC's called fundations<br />
[17:48:32] &lt;b457144n&gt; does anyone know what Bostons ideas are on supporting small GiveMany project deployments?<br />
[17:48:38] &lt;l-fy&gt; is ok to lobby for OLPC but you can't say that you are OLPC representative<br />
[17:48:43] &lt;sj&gt; for a set of proposed lists that can be rolled into one another (and occasionally split out).<br />
[17:48:48] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: technical or social?<br />
[17:48:54] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, (sorry but) i dont think anyone here besides you wants to keep things seperated from laptop.org - or?<br />
[17:49:05] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, both :-D<br />
[17:49:07] * crazy-chris agrees<br />
[17:49:11] &lt;h01ger&gt; (if you ask... :)<br />
[17:49:37] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; can we agree to have things basically on laptop.org, and see if it's required to extend that<br />
[17:49:41] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: lets discuss it later on the mailinglist...<br />
[17:49:48] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, great! :)<br />
[17:49:57] &lt;yokoy&gt; crazy-chris: ack<br />
[17:49:59] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; agree with chris, good idea!<br />
[17:50:04] * b457144n agrees with crazy-chris<br />
[17:50:05] * h01ger is a bit lost with the discussion atm and takes a 2min break to sort his thoughts<br />
[17:50:07] &lt;sj&gt; mburns and isforinsects (Seth woodworth) are talking about a consolidated blog, covering pilots and other communities<br />
[17:50:17] &lt;h01ger&gt; i wonder if we are still on topic / what the topic is<br />
[17:50:25] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; next topic: events (!)<br />
[17:50:38] &lt;b457144n&gt; are we done with participation?<br />
[17:50:39] &lt;ChristophD&gt; sj, thx for the info, I think some pilots (such as etheopia maybe) could join that effort<br />
[17:50:48] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, yes, but let me summarize participation first :)<br />
[17:50:53] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes<br />
[17:50:55] &lt;l-fy&gt; 2 minutes break?<br />
[17:50:55] &lt;sj&gt; I don't know the right structure for a constellation of blog planets...<br />
[17:51:07] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; participation: we will think about getting more transparence in europe<br />
[17:51:36] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed most participants in the meeting want to participate in olpc europe :) read the log for peoples details<br />
<a name='16'></a>
[17:51:38] &lt;ChristophD&gt; Gregor_Marco, what exactly do you mean by transperancy?<br />
[17:51:46] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed  to have things basically on laptop.org, and see if it's required to extend that<br />
<a name='17'></a>
[17:51:58] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok<br />
[17:52:00] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action mburns and isforinsects (Seth woodworth) are talking about a consolidated blog, covering pilots and other communities<br />
<a name='18'></a>
[17:52:05] &lt;l-fy&gt; i don't agree to be on the laptop.org<br />
[17:52:13] &lt;b457144n&gt; anyone want to work on G1G1 Europe. is it even appriopiate to work on that now?<br />
[17:52:22] &lt;l-fy&gt; i don't think that we can in the same time independent and in laptop.org<br />
[17:52:30] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; ChristophD, we want to see where are activities in Europe, Events, XO's and so on<br />
[17:52:33] &lt;l-fy&gt; if we are on the laptop.org we should belong to the OLPC fundation<br />
[17:52:38] * b457144n is totally unclear about Bostons plans with G1G1<br />
[17:52:42] * crazy-chris reminds: 18:50<br />
[17:52:44] &lt;ChristophD&gt; Gregor_Marco, thx, okay, now I understand<br />
[17:52:45] &lt;l-fy&gt; if we don't belog to OLPC fundation we shoudn't be there<br />
[17:52:46] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, we noticed. but we cannot agree on everything. which reminds me that we need a proper voting procedure or something to find consensus<br />
[17:53:07] * Gregor_Marco agree with holger<br />
[17:53:14] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes. i put it into todo<br />
[17:53:15] &lt;h01ger&gt; b457144n, g1g1 is planned for next meeting. as i see it, the current info is "there might be another one"<br />
[17:53:16] &lt;sj&gt; let me clarify something:<br />
[17:53:18] &lt;ChristophD&gt; b457144n, how would you want to bring g1g1 to europe without olpc and brightstar?<br />
[17:53:25] &lt;sj&gt; wiki.laptop.org does not 'belong' to OLPC<br />
[17:53:28] &lt;sj&gt; it is a community site.<br />
[17:53:35] &lt;l-fy&gt; ChristophD > with a different companny<br />
[17:53:46] &lt;l-fy&gt; sj > this is a political disscusion<br />
[17:53:51] &lt;sj&gt; there are people who post project ideas there, and solicit suppor for them, who "OLPC" as an association absolutely does not support<br />
[17:54:00] &lt;l-fy&gt; wiki.laptop.org belongs at least legaly to OLPC<br />
[17:54:05] &lt;l-fy&gt; and second of all<br />
[17:54:06] &lt;b457144n&gt; ChristophD: I don't but setting up local foundations for tax exemptions,etc. could help.<br />
[17:54:08] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed the olpc europe guidelines need  a proper voting procedure or something to find consensus  (today we said "agreed" when in fact not everybody agreed but only 90%)<br />
<a name='19'></a>
[17:54:22] * yokoy agree with sj<br />
[17:54:28] &lt;sj&gt; I just want to make that clear.  the license on the wiki text is CC-BY to make it as easy as possible for anyone to fork part of the wiki<br />
[17:54:32] &lt;ChristophD&gt; b457144n, okay, that makes sense<br />
[17:54:32] &lt;l-fy&gt; insted of being something that makes sense, and is related to Europe it will get lost there<br />
[17:54:49] &lt;sj&gt; and to mirror it and make sure it isn't somehow 'owned' or controlled by others.<br />
[17:55:01] &lt;l-fy&gt; anyway the disscusion was about news and documentation<br />
[17:55:02] &lt;ChristophD&gt; l-fy, I think that trying to bring XOs to europe by sidestepping brightstar aint gonna work, plus I dont even think its a good idea<br />
[17:55:20] &lt;l-fy&gt; ChristophD > there is brightstar in Romania<br />
[17:55:33] &lt;l-fy&gt; so how can Brightstar can do a g1g1 in .ro?<br />
[17:55:43] * crazy-chris suggests keeping things at laptop.org at first, and discuss further via mails<br />
[17:55:46] &lt;h01ger&gt; soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. should we get back on topic? i need to leave in 15min... (and g1g1 europe is topic for the next meeting or the mailinglist )<br />
[17:55:58] &lt;ChristophD&gt; h01ger, ack<br />
[17:56:05] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; next topic: events<br />
[17:56:09] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic Events (15 - 20 min)  Presentations / Workshops at events - Who will be where doing what? (if known yet)<br />
<a name='20'></a>
[17:56:28] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; 1. FOSDEM - who will be there?<br />
[17:56:38] * b457144n will be at FOSDEM<br />
[17:56:40] * sjoerd <br />
[17:56:48] &lt;sj&gt; (not me)<br />
[17:56:51] * ryd will be at fosdem also<br />
[17:56:51] &lt;l-fy&gt; ok<br />
[17:56:52] * rwh not<br />
[17:56:55] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action at http://fosdem.org there will be a olpc europe event which is scheduled for february, 23rd, 15-17 localtime<br />
<a name='21'></a>
[17:56:58] * yokoy maybe 30%<br />
[17:57:01] &lt;l-fy&gt; i don't feel like we are making any progress<br />
[17:57:02] * h01ger will be there too :)<br />
[17:57:03] * crazy-chris has probably no money, but will see<br />
[17:57:10] &lt;l-fy&gt; i mean what does actually OLPC Europe is gonna do?<br />
[17:57:24] &lt;l-fy&gt; i don't have a mail list, is not gonna have a website<br />
[17:57:35] &lt;b457144n&gt; l-fy: stop it :-)<br />
[17:57:38] &lt;l-fy&gt; how exactly are we gonna put things together?<br />
[17:57:40] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes, please<br />
[17:58:00] &lt;l-fy&gt; b457144n > sorry :( i'm just very focused<br />
[17:58:00] &lt;h01ger&gt; l-fy, can you please stop this?! we have a mailing list, we have a vision now, we have plans, we have events. and we have a topic we would like to discuss now<br />
[17:58:04] &lt;b457144n&gt; what are the plans to do at FOSDEM<br />
[17:58:05] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; sorry l-fy, we have to stay on topic<br />
[17:58:12] &lt;b457144n&gt; besides seeing eachother<br />
[17:58:14] &lt;h01ger&gt; samy, hi. log at http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/olpc-europe.log.20080110_1702.html<br />
[17:58:26] &lt;samy&gt; hello/bonjour<br />
[17:58:34] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; not much probably<br />
[17:58:42] &lt;l-fy&gt; h01ger > i don't want events, i don't have time to go to events, i'm to busy working like hell to get the money to push OLPC here<br />
[17:58:47] * h01ger has three main goals with this event: 1. meet each other. 2. tell others we exist. 3. start olpc europe (this already happens \o/)<br />
[17:58:57] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; because only few people from here will be there<br />
[17:59:09] * crazy-chris agrees with holger<br />
[17:59:12] * h01ger expects people from >30 european countries at fosdem<br />
[17:59:18] &lt;b457144n&gt; only 4000 FOSS developers<br />
[17:59:40] &lt;h01ger&gt; b457144n, yes. _mostly_ developers, but not only<br />
[18:00:04] &lt;b457144n&gt; h01ger: that's not bad is it?<br />
[18:00:23] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action h01ger has three main goals with the fosdem event: 1. meet each other. 2. tell others we exist. 3. start olpc europe (this already happens \o/) - h01ger expects people from >30 european countries at fosdem<br />
<a name='22'></a>
[18:00:27] &lt;b457144n&gt; we do need educators, artists, writers etc as well<br />
[18:00:31] * sj appreciates l-fy's focus<br />
[18:00:55] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; does anyone want to be at the LinuxTag Berlin (28. to 31. May, Berlin) for olpc?<br />
[18:00:55] * Gregor_Marco agree with b457144n<br />
[18:01:01] &lt;h01ger&gt; someone from france here? Solutions Linux is happening in two weeks...<br />
[18:01:07] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, /me :)<br />
[18:01:19] &lt;samy&gt; Samy from france (near paris)<br />
[18:01:19] &lt;yokoy&gt; l-fy: crazy-chris : me<br />
[18:01:45] * b457144n wants to be at LinuxTag Berlin but probably cant<br />
[18:01:48] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed florian prepares something at  Solutions Linux in paris from  29. to 31. January 08<br />
<a name='23'></a>
[18:01:49] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; I've heard there will be a meeting an cebit (starting at 9.3., Germany)<br />
[18:02:08] &lt;b457144n&gt; any word on ApacheCon?<br />
[18:02:14] &lt;b457144n&gt; A'dam that is<br />
<a name='24'></a>
[18:02:14] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe/LinuxTag_Berlin_08<br />
[18:02:18] &lt;h01ger&gt; #link http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe/Events<br />
<a name='25'></a>
[18:02:27] &lt;ChristophD&gt; ~4 people from OLPC Austria will be at cebit<br />
[18:02:34] &lt;ChristophD&gt; most likely with a free both at the linuxpark<br />
[18:02:44] &lt;ChristophD&gt; working on that atm<br />
<a name='26'></a>
[18:02:59] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe/CeBIT_08<br />
[18:03:04] &lt;ChristophD&gt; and cebit starts 3.3. (not 9.3.) if I'm mistaken<br />
[18:03:32] &lt;ChristophD&gt; I'm NOT mistaken ;)<br />
[18:03:33] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; yes u'r right<br />
[18:03:38] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; sorry!<br />
[18:03:52] &lt;ChristophD&gt; so who else is at cebit?<br />
[18:03:54] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; Maybe jens will be @ cebit<br />
[18:03:59] &lt;ChristophD&gt; cool<br />
[18:04:08] &lt;yokoy&gt; Gregor_Marco: i will be at cebit<br />
[18:04:08] &lt;h01ger&gt; maybe me too<br />
[18:04:15] &lt;ChristophD&gt; great<br />
[18:04:16] &lt;ChristophD&gt; :)<br />
[18:04:19] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; please add yourself to the wiki if you know :)<br />
[18:04:21] &lt;ChristophD&gt; shall be fun<br />
[18:04:27] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; What about ApacheCon (7. to 11. 4.)<br />
[18:04:28] &lt;h01ger&gt; we should settle on an exact date for cebit ASAP<br />
[18:04:31] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; Marco and Gregor can't come to cebit<br />
[18:04:34] &lt;ChristophD&gt; tobit software and freenet party here we come ;-)<br />
[18:04:44] &lt;ChristophD&gt; h01ger, we cant settle the date...<br />
[18:04:47] * crazy-chris would like to go to ApacheCon :)<br />
[18:04:47] * yokoy not at apachecon<br />
[18:04:54] &lt;ChristophD&gt; OLPC Austria will be there throughout cebit, all days<br />
[18:04:56] &lt;h01ger&gt; CanoeBerry, who can?<br />
[18:05:02] &lt;h01ger&gt; ChristophD, ^<br />
[18:05:20] * h01ger notes we have 10min left and two topics left<br />
[18:05:33] * crazy-chris thinks we're not bad in time :)<br />
[18:05:41] &lt;h01ger&gt; should we move on?<br />
[18:05:47] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: yes<br />
[18:06:02] * h01ger waits 15 more seconds<br />
[18:06:19] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic Which group would need how many xo laptops?  (5min)<br />
<a name='27'></a>
[18:06:52] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; there are no laptops to give away at the moment, but to get an overview<br />
[18:06:59] &lt;h01ger&gt; noone needs laptops? ;)<br />
[18:07:11] &lt;yokoy&gt; everybody...<br />
[18:07:18] &lt;b457144n&gt; olpc-nl group now has 1 laptop (from sj via Rop) and gets two more from l-fy<br />
[18:07:18] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; we are still waiting from g1g1 ...<br />
[18:07:55] &lt;b457144n&gt; and we will count G1G1 laptops at the next olpc-nl meeting (12 januari)<br />
[18:08:08] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; the french guys have 1 at the moment and we'll borrow another for the solutions linux. they could need 2 more perhaps<br />
[18:08:23] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; we need laptops for our university, but we are still working on the concept<br />
[18:08:24] &lt;samy&gt; from 5 to 10 (for collaborative activities (homework, classwork, projects, etc.)<br />
[18:08:28] * h01ger thinks this topic can also be dealed via mail or by asking here at any time. (especially if you only need one or two for a demo event or such)<br />
[18:08:37] &lt;sjoerd&gt; b457144n: s/12/19 ?<br />
[18:09:01] &lt;h01ger&gt; b457144n, where is the next olpc-nl meeting?<br />
[18:09:06] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: ack<br />
[18:09:07] &lt;b457144n&gt; sjoerd: of course 19 januari<br />
[18:09:19] &lt;sj&gt; b457144n, are you in touch with Kennisnet?<br />
[18:09:25] &lt;sj&gt; they have 2 laptops as well<br />
[18:09:32] &lt;h01ger&gt; #agreed getting laptops can also be dealed via mail or by asking here at any time. (especially if you only need one or two for a demo event or such)<br />
<a name='28'></a>
[18:09:36] &lt;b457144n&gt; h01ger: it will be in Delft: see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC-NL_meetings<br />
[18:09:43] &lt;b457144n&gt; sj: not yet<br />
[18:09:46] * h01ger really needs to fix meetbots #INFO...<br />
[18:09:53] &lt;yokoy&gt; b457144n: WHERE is the...<br />
[18:09:59] &lt;h01ger&gt; #link  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC-NL_meetings<br />
<a name='29'></a>
[18:10:01] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, delft :)<br />
[18:10:01] &lt;sj&gt; Jan-Bart de Vreede is a good contact there<br />
[18:10:16] &lt;b457144n&gt; sj: ah thanks for the name. I'll contact him<br />
[18:10:24] &lt;h01ger&gt; sj, that should go to that wiki page - can some one please add it there?! :)<br />
[18:10:26] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: ups! sorry<br />
[18:10:34] &lt;h01ger&gt; yokoy, np :)<br />
[18:10:42] &lt;h01ger&gt; next topic?<br />
[18:10:57] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; yes<br />
[18:11:06] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; jup<br />
[18:11:07] &lt;ryd&gt; ok, I'm leaving - cy<br />
[18:11:09] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic who writes the summary? of this meeting<br />
<a name='30'></a>
[18:11:18] &lt;yokoy&gt; ryd: bye<br />
[18:11:24] &lt;h01ger&gt; surprise topic :) but i think it would be very useful if someone does...<br />
[18:11:34] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; i can start with it, and post the page in 2 or 3 hours for editing<br />
[18:11:49] &lt;h01ger&gt; crazy-chris, excellent<br />
[18:11:58] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; great<br />
[18:12:04] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action crazy-chris will post a summary to the grassroots-list<br />
<a name='31'></a>
[18:12:11] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic next meeting<br />
<a name='32'></a>
[18:12:20] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; one or two weeks from now?<br />
[18:12:39] * h01ger would plea for two weeks and prepare+do stuff on the list inbetween<br />
[18:12:53] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; agree, two weeks<br />
[18:12:57] * yokoy agrees with h01ger <br />
[18:12:59] &lt;b457144n&gt; two weeks, can't be here next week. have to promote OLPC :-)<br />
[18:13:02] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; for me two weeks<br />
[18:13:12] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; day / time<br />
[18:13:18] &lt;h01ger&gt; is thurday a good day?<br />
[18:13:26] &lt;h01ger&gt; does todays time fit?<br />
[18:13:36] &lt;h01ger&gt; (for me, both to yes)<br />
[18:13:37] &lt;yokoy&gt; h01ger: yes<br />
[18:13:38] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; yes,, fits good for us<br />
[18:13:39] * crazy-chris can<br />
[18:13:41] &lt;h01ger&gt; yes to both even :)<br />
[18:14:17] &lt;b457144n&gt; thursday is fine<br />
[18:14:38] &lt;yokoy&gt; 24th january, 18:00 MET<br />
[18:14:43] &lt;h01ger&gt; so, it looks we'll meet again here on thursday, the 24th, 17 UTC. right?<br />
[18:15:10] * crazy-chris is looking forward to that<br />
[18:15:25] &lt;h01ger&gt; #action next #olpc-europe meeting on #olpc-europe on freenode on thursday, the 24th, 17 UTC (18 CET)<br />
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[18:15:48] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; and discussion channels: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Europe, Grassroots list, #olpc-groups/-europe<br />
[18:15:52] &lt;h01ger&gt; #topic cheerio, thats it for today! thank you all for attending!<br />
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[18:15:55] &lt;Gregor_Marco&gt; thanks you for the conversation, greets from Germany @all<br />
[18:16:12] &lt;crazy-chris&gt; thanks to all for the conversation<br />
[18:16:23] &lt;samy&gt; thanks/merci<br />
[18:16:37] &lt;ChristophD&gt; have a good evening everyone!<br />
[18:16:51] &lt;yokoy&gt; vielen dank, gute nacht..<br />
<hr>Meeting ended.<br /><hr><p>Information on meetbot is available at <a href='http://meetbot.debian.net'>meetbot.debian.net</a></p>