17:01:09 <r2r0> #startmeeting
17:01:09 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Apr 13 17:01:09 2015 UTC.  The chair is r2r0. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:09 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:12 <aagbsn> hola
17:01:21 <r2r0> aagbsn: hey there :)
17:01:38 <anadahz> hi
17:03:10 <r2r0> who else is here?
17:03:17 <r2r0> anadahz: hi :)
17:03:30 <duncank> I am here
17:03:37 <r2r0> duncank: oh awesome!
17:03:44 <aagbsn> duncank: greetings :)
17:03:51 <duncank> hi :)
17:04:47 <aagbsn> shall we begin the go-around?
17:04:48 <r2r0> simone told me he would not manage to join us today
17:04:57 <r2r0> aagbsn: yes we shall
17:05:32 <aagbsn> since our past meeting I completed an implementation of a Lantern test and submitted a PR
17:05:50 <aagbsn> with an accompanying ooni-spec PR
17:06:08 <aagbsn> r2r0 made some feedback, which I will review this week and update the status of these PR
17:06:15 <aagbsn> additional feedback is very welcome
17:06:22 <aagbsn> if any Lantern developers are in the house ;)
17:06:41 <aagbsn> I believe that is an accurate tl;dr - any questions?
17:07:18 <aagbsn> else the next can go
17:07:21 <r2r0> aagbsn: we should also perhaps send alex and ox an email telling them this so they can interact with the PRs
17:07:35 <r2r0> they may be more of an email animal than an IRC one
17:07:37 <aagbsn> agree, I will provide them with links to the code and PR
17:07:47 <r2r0> cool
17:08:13 <aagbsn> what does the 'agree' command do?
17:08:27 <r2r0> aagbsn: not sure
17:08:31 <aagbsn> #agreed aagbsn will provide lantern developers with ooni lantern test implementation and ask for feedback
17:08:45 * aagbsn shrugs
17:08:50 <aagbsn> anything else?
17:09:23 <r2r0> I will go next
17:10:17 <r2r0> so I have been discussing this option of doing the OONI hackfest at the Italian Camera dei Deputati (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_dei_deputati) and it seems like we are quite well set
17:10:55 <r2r0> they will give us the space, though it will probably not be possible to run it until Sunday (since they close on Sunday and we would require extra authorization to keep it open)
17:11:13 <r2r0> this would mean that we should probably run it from Thu-Sat
17:11:40 <r2r0> Saturday it stays open only until the afternoon, but it may be easier to extend that period
17:12:09 <r2r0> that said since we still don't have a lock on the funds for it, we have been considering moving it down a bit
17:12:22 <r2r0> to june
17:12:43 <r2r0> this would also give us more time to at best coordinate the communication for the event
17:13:15 <r2r0> also June is a great period to be in Rome and if some people wish to stay even after the hackfest we can go to the beach or something
17:13:28 <aagbsn> :)
17:13:49 <r2r0> I have also found an office in Rome
17:13:56 <r2r0> that is conveniently walking distance from the parliament
17:14:15 <r2r0> it's inside of the offices of the "Radicali" party
17:14:43 <aagbsn> I spoke to r2r0 on this topic earlier and think that we should lock in dates and proceed with announcing the event
17:15:04 <r2r0> there is quite a bit of space there so if the parliament closes at a certain time or we want to do late night hacking (the parliament closes at night) we can go there
17:15:10 <anadahz> but we are still waiting for OTF to confirm?
17:15:52 <aagbsn> OTF gave positive feedback though the scope of our requestion may be reduced
17:16:01 <aagbsn> er, request, even
17:16:17 <r2r0> yeah, we fist need to 1) Get confirmation from the Parliament of the exact dates (I will call them tomorrow morning or wednesday) 2) Know exactly how much budget we have so we can say how many stipends we have etc.
17:16:42 <r2r0> I also think it would be ideal to have the new website done before we do the announcement
17:16:56 <aagbsn> That would be a good reason to push back till June
17:17:19 <r2r0> so I think this means
17:17:42 <r2r0> #agreed we shall move the OONI hackathon down to june
17:17:53 <aagbsn> any dissent?
17:18:01 * r2r0 wonders what will happen with these commands
17:18:15 <aagbsn> #agreed the earth is flat
17:18:44 <aagbsn> maybe it requires more than 1 #agreed
17:18:52 <r2r0> heh
17:19:06 <aagbsn> any more or should the next go?
17:19:23 <r2r0> I have a couple of more things to say, but I can also add them later
17:20:31 <anadahz> I have almost finished the meek test and test spec
17:21:22 <anadahz> started working on the greek censorship article again, aiming at publishing a short version for ooni website blog
17:22:35 <anadahz> work a bit on lepidopter.. hopefully the images will be ready next week
17:23:02 <r2r0> great!
17:23:12 <anadahz> run some tests on the updated version of the greek blacklist
17:23:26 <anadahz> they have added some more websites
17:23:50 <r2r0> anadahz: yes I noticed, and they also killed the old version of the list..
17:24:09 <r2r0> all the links to those 404 and they disabled crawling from the internet archive
17:24:10 <anadahz> yes but I have all of them archived ;)
17:24:15 <r2r0> #OpenData
17:24:38 <r2r0> anadahz: ah cool. I started working on a parser for it to add to citizenlab/test-lists
17:25:02 <r2r0> I don't understand why these stupid governments publish their blocklists in a pdf
17:25:19 <anadahz> yes i had a look
17:25:24 <r2r0> though italy is worse, they use a corrupt rtf
17:25:38 <r2r0> that requires monkey patching the python rtf module to parse it
17:25:51 <aagbsn> who killed the list?
17:26:01 <anadahz> gamingcommission.gov.gr
17:26:04 <r2r0> https://github.com/hellais/test-lists/blob/85ddf3db63cdbc98025c771e46a4594f6ae94da0/lib/lists/official/it/aams.py
17:26:08 <aagbsn> from archive.org?
17:26:40 <r2r0> aagbsn: archive never had it because they said ignore: * in robots.txt
17:26:55 <r2r0> https://twitter.com/hellais/status/587278803011051521
17:26:58 <r2r0> https://twitter.com/hellais/status/587279146755223552
17:27:58 <r2r0> anadahz: anyways, is there more?
17:28:39 <anadahz> nope
17:29:22 * irl still hasn't got timezones right
17:29:25 <r2r0> someone else have something to talk about?
17:29:35 <irl> i can talk about debian packages, if that's not already happened
17:29:36 <duncank> I can go
17:29:37 <r2r0> irl: yeah, time zones are not right
17:30:00 <aagbsn> duncank: go for it
17:30:03 <duncank> ok
17:30:17 <duncank> this is where the homepage design is at:
17:30:22 <duncank> https://vtllf.org/scratch/ooni-web/i/index
17:30:38 <duncank> next I plan to start making some content
17:30:51 <duncank> (though still open to feedback on the design)
17:31:12 <duncank> plan to start with an example page describing a nettest
17:31:25 <duncank> so I can get some feedback on it
17:31:36 <duncank> that's all from me
17:32:12 <r2r0> duncank: awesome
17:32:23 <irl> duncank: i like this design. (:
17:32:30 <duncank> yay
17:32:35 <aagbsn> I like the design
17:32:40 <r2r0> I also think this iteration is the best!
17:32:46 <aagbsn> I think the graphs with country codes should introduce more color though
17:32:49 <r2r0> it keeps the logo in the original form
17:33:00 <r2r0> it has the blue banner that vasilis liked
17:33:13 <r2r0> and has the grey footer
17:33:18 <r2r0> ++
17:33:21 <irl> i would possibly check with the people who's logos are greyscaled, to make sure that won't upset anyone.
17:33:34 <duncank> aagbsn: yes, that chart is very placeholder
17:33:35 <r2r0> duncank: the only thing is that I think there is a problem with the colors of the text/svg in the banner
17:33:46 <r2r0> it's not aliasing properly with the background
17:33:55 <duncank> might be a line chart or something else entirely in the end
17:34:23 <duncank> r2r0: ok thanks, I'll try figure out what's going on there
17:34:35 <r2r0> also the OONI writing needs to be in all caps (we changed it with the new stickers)
17:35:00 <duncank> ok, send pics :)
17:35:01 <r2r0> (which by the way have arrived and look quite epic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCahekEVIAA_Jfn.jpg:large
17:35:04 <r2r0> )
17:35:15 <r2r0> they are HUGE
17:35:35 <aagbsn> I might move the 'how ooni works' diagram lower
17:35:42 <irl> r2r0: (:
17:35:58 <aagbsn> on a small screen it's the first thing I see, but it isn't clear what the project is about, etc
17:36:14 <irl> i was wondering if there's enough context there.
17:36:45 <duncank> aagbsn: ok, I'll think about how that could be improved
17:37:12 <r2r0> I think that can be done by working a bit on the graph
17:37:37 <r2r0> here are some of the notions that I think should be communicated via the graph:
17:37:43 <aagbsn> either a graphic that is immediately explanator - or a project tl;dor ?
17:37:46 <r2r0> 1) That there are lot's of probes in different networks
17:38:08 <r2r0> 2) That not every country has an evil censorship, some of them have censors that are more evil than others
17:38:43 <r2r0> 3) Our "backends" or "servers" (perhaps servers is more mainstream) are also plenty and distributed, though less than the probes
17:39:25 <r2r0> 4) The general public, policy makers, NGOs, etc. will read the reports that are submitted by probes to understand internet censorship in the world and take action based on this
17:40:02 <r2r0> I would leave out the Tor aspect as I think it is a technical detail that is not crucial to a general user that first visits the site
17:40:30 <duncank> as in the label on the diagram?
17:40:31 <r2r0> I would re-use the graph you put on the front page for some sections of the site that explain in common language the various tests
17:40:35 <aagbsn> as mentioned in valencia at tor-dev; I want to produce monthly automatic reports
17:40:47 <r2r0> that one in particular would be the one about the blocking/http-requests test
17:41:06 <aagbsn> so perhaps the top element could be the most recent report
17:41:20 <duncank> (here is an earlier version with the "how it works" section lower for comparison:)
17:41:25 <duncank> https://vtllf.org/scratch/ooni-web/d/index
17:41:55 <duncank> but maybe recent news isn't ideal to go at the top either
17:42:00 <r2r0> I actually am quite convinced that if we think a bit on how to do the chart well it can be the best thing to put up on top
17:42:23 <anadahz> duncank: still my favourite: https://vtllf.org/scratch/ooni-web/a/images/how-ooni-works.svg
17:42:24 <landers> jjjjjj~.
17:43:24 <r2r0> I can make a crappy diagram with keynote of how I would imagine the 4 elements present in the chart
17:43:29 <r2r0> *diagram
17:43:34 <aagbsn> r2r0: yes, I'd like visitors to see something informative about censorship in the world at large on the first page
17:43:47 <duncank> go for it, please send me a copy :)
17:45:18 <aagbsn> maps are powerful elements
17:45:47 <landers> good to maybe say somewhere what o.o.n.i. stands for also?
17:45:48 <aagbsn> but we could also have a 'random visualization of data'
17:47:11 <duncank> landers: yes, I'll have another look at that
17:47:12 <r2r0> duncank: will do
17:47:31 <duncank> left it out earlier because I couldn't make it fit nicely
17:47:39 <r2r0> irl: do you want to say something on debian packaging?
17:48:12 <irl> i can quickly say that i'm looking at it, but i'm disappearing also.
17:48:23 <r2r0> irl: sorry I just now read your PM
17:48:30 <irl> i plan to have the debian package worked by the end of the week. ubuntu packages by the end of the month.
17:48:37 <r2r0> ok no worries we can talk about this later or tomorrow
17:48:40 <irl> can give more details later.
17:48:45 <r2r0> cool
17:48:52 <irl> sorry, i need to sort out timezones and schedules and stuff. not very organised today.
17:49:03 <r2r0> ack
17:49:12 <r2r0> does anybody else have something they would like to talk about?
17:51:08 <r2r0> in that case I will add the other couple of things I previously witheld
17:51:31 <r2r0> we were working on a proposal to get some funding from the European Union to do:
17:51:36 <r2r0> 1) Hackfests
17:51:41 <r2r0> 2) OONI mobile development
17:51:49 <r2r0> 3) Raspberry pi deployments
17:52:25 <r2r0> we were doing it though hermes with Nexa
17:52:49 <r2r0> though we realised that it's not possible to get EU funding unless the people paid are employed by hermes
17:53:03 <r2r0> so I will just be part of the board of something for this proposal
17:53:17 <r2r0> and we will probably just end up managing to fund some OONI hackathons with it
17:53:26 <r2r0> so still good
17:53:53 <r2r0> I also did a bit more progress on the OTF proposal and I think some of you have a copy of it
17:54:06 <r2r0> it's due by May 1st so we should finish it ASAP and submit it
17:55:01 <r2r0> Regarding the IFCCI project, we have finished all the work due by 30th of March and have started work on what needs to be done in April
17:55:25 <r2r0> though we don't yet have a contract signed, I believe what will be the deliverables are:
17:55:34 <r2r0> 1) Finishing the implementation of the tests and specs
17:55:41 <r2r0> 2) Workin on raspberry pi images
17:55:54 <r2r0> 3) (if we have more time) doing the informed consent research
17:56:05 <r2r0> speaking of informed consent
17:56:20 <r2r0> I think we should consider working on a paper to submit to PETS
17:56:30 <r2r0> that is HotPETS
17:57:11 <aagbsn> r2r0: is the proposal finalized yet?
17:58:11 <r2r0> they require just a 2 page abstract for considering it so I think we can manage to produce something by the deadline of April 24th
17:58:30 <r2r0> aagbsn: I have written all of the sections and they include enough details, I think
17:59:08 <r2r0> but it would be ideal to have people proofread it, provide feedback on it, before we consider it finalized
18:01:44 <r2r0> aagbsn: ah sorry I thought you meant the OTF one
18:02:00 <r2r0> the EU one has been submitted
18:06:03 <anadahz> r2r0: did you have any news about the possible ooni operators worldwide?
18:06:24 <aagbsn> ok. Let's coordinate to go over the proposal this week.
18:06:36 <r2r0> anadahz: I don't fully understand the question
18:07:38 <anadahz> there were couple of groups willing to run some ooniprobe infrastructure in various ISPs and geo-locations
18:08:38 <r2r0> ah yes
18:08:49 <r2r0> I have not followed up with any of them recently
18:09:01 <r2r0> but to do so I think we need to have the raspberry pi images ready
18:10:03 <anadahz> yes sounds reasonable
18:10:19 <anadahz> however many would like to run on their own infrastructure
18:10:35 <anadahz> VPSs or similar
18:11:09 <anadahz> anyway we should ping them
18:11:17 <r2r0> agreed
18:11:45 <anadahz> ah before I forget
18:12:58 <anadahz> I was reading a journal article with a comparison of censorship detection and circumvention (searching for a link)
18:13:28 <anadahz> and there was a very accurate classification of censorship tests
18:13:33 <anadahz> OONI was there as well
18:13:49 <anadahz> and the following tests were missing:
18:14:18 <anadahz> BGP tampering, DNShijacking, DNS injection, TLS DoS
18:15:20 <r2r0> anadahz: ah yes
18:15:22 <anadahz> perhaps we should add some tickets to deploy some new tests including the net neutrality test that isabela and aagbsn suggested
18:15:29 <r2r0> the giuseppe aceto one
18:15:34 <r2r0> from the university of naples
18:15:50 <r2r0> I have not yet read through it all, just skimmed it briefly today
18:15:51 <aagbsn> it's possible they didn't consider our DNS injection test as part of ooniprobe-1.0
18:15:58 <anadahz> r2r0: yes
18:16:17 <aagbsn> BGP tampering is one we should add
18:16:32 <anadahz> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1389128615000948#
18:17:11 <r2r0> BGP is currently a bit incompatible with the OONI model of doing tests
18:17:20 <r2r0> since we reply on network vantage points
18:17:48 <r2r0> and don't think we could easily make ooniprobe run on cisco routers
18:18:29 <r2r0> but I met in Turin some months ago people that were working on a BGP monitoring probe software
18:18:44 <r2r0> something like a rrdtool for BGP
18:18:47 <aagbsn> r2r0: just traceroute tbh
18:19:20 <aagbsn> we just need a tool to see if the AS path changes for particular prefixes
18:19:22 <r2r0> and it would be cool to have them formalise their tool as an ooni test
18:19:48 <r2r0> aagbsn: that would be a bit limited though, it wouldn't give you the actual interconnections
18:20:47 <aagbsn> and traceroute can be faked
18:21:04 <r2r0> some of the network segments may be done over VLANs or may not consider ttl
18:21:09 <aagbsn> hm.
18:21:53 <r2r0> though it would be very cool to have something that scrapes data from the various looking glasses and archives it as an ooni report
18:22:09 <r2r0> this could be the starting point for non vantage point specific ooniprobe tests
18:22:25 <r2r0> I can also think of other tests that fit in this category
18:22:26 <r2r0> like:
18:22:27 <aagbsn> we might want to make it easier to submit to ooni's backend
18:22:55 <r2r0> 1) Enumerate all the open resolvers and do DNS consistency on them
18:23:39 <r2r0> 2) Indirect scanning for DNS injection or the zombie scan type technique in royas bridge reachability paper
18:24:19 <r2r0> aagbsn: what is hard about it? I think the API is quite solid and well documented
18:24:36 <r2r0> the main issue I see with it currently is that we only support tor hidden services
18:24:37 <aagbsn> I mean to make it easy for a 3rd party tool to generate a report and submit it
18:24:50 <aagbsn> it just needs a bit of example code to show how this can be done
18:25:12 <r2r0> aagbsn: submitting a report is just a matter of sending a POST to /report with a json document containg your tools name and the test name
18:25:36 <r2r0> you get back an ID and then you just send YAML data via POST to /report/<ID>
18:25:50 <aagbsn> right; for python tools we already provide code to do that
18:26:05 <aagbsn> it's just not obvious that you can use it as a library
18:26:17 <r2r0> yeah, and I don't think we can/should make a client for every possible lanauge/framework
18:26:35 <r2r0> I mean it's up to the developer of the tool to choose what library to use for sending HTTP requests and parsing JSON
18:27:15 <r2r0> thought it may be useful to document it also using swagger
18:30:00 <r2r0> I wrote a spec for the measurements and reports API here: https://github.com/TheTorProject/ooni-spec/commit/0de07097b13d4e95a535c355bd03c06980515f81
18:31:14 <r2r0> anyways it seems like we are more than 30 minutes out of time
18:31:30 <r2r0> are there any more things that need to be discussed?
18:35:57 <aagbsn> i guess not presently
18:38:12 <r2r0> ok cool
18:38:23 <r2r0> then thanks for attending and see you around!
18:38:26 <r2r0> #endmeeting