13:30:09 <nickm> #startmeeting
13:30:09 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed May  6 13:30:09 2015 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:30:09 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:30:20 <nickm> hi folks, it's another tor development weekly meeting!
13:30:23 <nickm> let's start with status
13:30:42 <dgoulet> hello meeting
13:30:49 <nickm> I've been trying to help folks get things done, and being distracted.  I'm also trying to get out the first 027 alpha
13:30:51 <asn> ( dgoulet: fwiw, what i do is i send them to tor-reports, and then link them to the memex list.)
13:31:02 <dgoulet> asn: ack
13:31:03 <nickm> If there are any must-merge things for 0.2.7.1-alpha, please make sure I know
13:31:20 <isabela> dgoulet: thanks for the info
13:31:25 <nickm> i have a bunch of designs to review, and a bunch of docs to help right
13:31:34 <nickm> any maybe I can get some code done?  There's always hope
13:31:37 <nickm> who's next?
13:31:54 <dgoulet> o/
13:32:46 <dgoulet> did a few things here and there on tor code, #15881 is one and comments on some other tickets, I'll be doing patches today for 5 sponsorR tickets (not listing them)
13:33:01 <nickm> great
13:33:15 <dgoulet> I should put some work in reviewing 0.2.7 triage in tickets
13:33:26 <dgoulet> so my head doesn't go insane with R :)
13:34:06 <nickm> makes sense
13:34:19 <dgoulet> I'll cherry-pick probably in the tracker for needs_review
13:34:29 <dgoulet> that's about it
13:35:19 <nickm> ok, who's next?
13:36:35 <nickm> not seeing Yawning or athena this morning...
13:36:45 <nickm> I know isabela is busy with a sponsorU report...
13:36:54 <dgoulet> we are alone here :)
13:36:57 <isabela> oi
13:37:00 <nickm> asn: you have anything this week?
13:37:37 <isabela> I am busy but it should be done soon. then I will finally move to trac (!!) and orgnize things
13:37:59 * dgoulet excited about ^ :)
13:38:18 <isabela> yeah me too
13:38:19 <isabela> hehe
13:39:06 <nickm> great!  Just ask if you could use any help
13:39:15 <Yawning> hi
13:39:18 <Yawning> wut
13:39:21 <nickm> hi Yawning !
13:39:28 <isabela> would be too much to ask for us to go over roadmap? I know dgoulet is traumatized from yesterday :)
13:39:32 <nickm> Yawning: dev meeting time; we're doing status?
13:39:45 <nickm> isabela: I bet we could. Shall we do that in discussion time?
13:39:54 <isabela> nickm: sure :)
13:40:01 <Yawning> oh
13:40:08 <dgoulet> a wild Yawning appears!
13:40:25 * teor is here
13:40:36 <Yawning> yeah, my "drag yourself out of bed for the meeting alarm" went off
13:40:49 <teor> me too, Yawning
13:41:00 <nickm> Yawning: sorry for the timezone :/
13:41:04 * isabela passes the coffee around
13:41:19 <dgoulet> teor: o/ thanks for #13192
13:42:00 <teor> dgoulet: hope it was what you wanted - I'd done the commits, but just hadn't added them to the issue on trac. Silly me.
13:42:13 <Yawning> I fixed a bunch of hs stuff, and was enjoying my long weekend
13:42:16 <dgoulet> teor: will look at it and karsten will be happy :)
13:42:18 <Yawning> back to business tomorrow
13:42:31 <dgoulet> teor: and isabela because we are closing a ticket :)
13:42:35 <teor> dgoulet: one more roadmap item down
13:42:38 <nickm> sounds good
13:42:46 <nickm> anybody else want to check in?
13:42:55 <teor> dgoulet checked me in
13:43:08 <teor> I have also been reviewing #14882
13:43:35 <teor> wondering whether to give those 6 flags unit tests
13:43:39 <nickm> isabela: okay, where's that roadmap we should look at? :)
13:43:52 <isabela> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/roadmaps/CoreTor
13:43:56 <nickm> teor: It would be good if we could.  Ideally they would share so much code that it wouldn't be that hard
13:44:04 <dgoulet> Yawning: could we close this you think with add_onion merged now? #1949
13:44:15 <Yawning> uh wow
13:44:30 <teor> nickm: yes, I expect that there might already be shared test code for nodeset flags that I could re-use
13:44:41 <Yawning> yes
13:44:50 <dgoulet> Yawning: out of the dust, I found it in a parent ticket of a parent ticket that was a child ticket of another parent ticket :P
13:44:53 <sambuddhabasu1> atagar: are there any updates with the OSX installation docs for stem?
13:45:30 <teor> sambuddhabasu1: just keep saying "nice kitty" to the OS X?
13:45:45 <nickm> isabela: okay, what should we do with that roadmap? :)
13:46:06 <Yawning> *tries to reboot brain*
13:46:14 <Yawning> *fails*
13:46:59 <nickm> Yawning: dgoulet: I think we can close that one.  Maybe even call it R, if we called add_onion R.  (#1949)
13:47:18 <teor> Yawning: abort, retry, ignore?
13:47:20 <dgoulet> nickm: yup, on it!
13:47:47 <dgoulet> there
13:47:51 <sambuddhabasu1> teor: haha
13:48:07 <isabela> nickm: yesterday we updated march and april for sponsor r
13:48:18 <isabela> nickm: I was wondering if we could do the same for core tor
13:48:28 <nickm> oh, with status?  sure
13:48:35 <nickm> maybe we should look at may too
13:48:44 <isabela> yes
13:48:55 <isabela> the goal is with doing that we will probably populate may as we go
13:49:04 <isabela> also, core t has a BIIIIG september
13:49:07 <nickm> okay, I'll do a quick edit with status, and people can argue with me :)
13:49:13 <nickm> core t?
13:49:18 <isabela> core tor
13:49:19 <isabela> sorry
13:49:21 <nickm> np
13:49:31 <nickm> I was worried I had a lot of sponsor T deliverables that I didn't know about :)
13:49:40 <isabela> lol
13:49:43 <isabela> ok
13:49:48 <nickm> I think we should try to pull as much from we can from Sep forward, to split it up
13:50:08 <nickm> editing....
13:50:12 <isabela> sounds good, let me start calling things from march and you guys can give me updates
13:50:48 <isabela> #15228
13:50:59 <isabela> is this green (from march)
13:51:00 <isabela> ?
13:51:03 <teor> Under discussion
13:51:17 <teor> On tor-dev I think
13:51:21 <isabela> should we move it to may?
13:51:45 <nickm> just edited the page for march...may
13:51:46 <isabela> things can move to the current month if they are being work on
13:51:50 <teor> There was a proposed list, but it didn't have any IPv6 ORPorts
13:51:59 <isabela> nice
13:52:00 <nickm> lots of stuff from april is a pain
13:52:25 <isabela> teor: I will move it to may
13:52:49 <isabela> #15235
13:52:54 <isabela> are we working on this one as well?
13:53:00 <isabela> (also from march)
13:53:08 <nickm> I think that one might need to be lorax; it's unfunded and we're all busy
13:53:18 <nickm> it would be great to have a volunteer drive that
13:53:24 <nickm> or somebody who has strong feelings about IPv6
13:53:29 <nickm> (anyone disagree?)
13:53:37 <teor> isabela: please assign #15228 to weasel to add IPv6 ORPorts, then we can work out how to proceed
13:53:38 <dgoulet> oh I would love to work on that.... meh
13:53:54 <teor> isabela: to hard-code or distribute a file
13:54:07 <isabela> teor: ok will do
13:54:10 <nickm> teor: has weasel agreed to do that?  Remember he's a busy volunteer :)
13:54:34 <isabela> nickm: #15228 has his name on it already
13:54:38 <nickm> dgoulet: If you're excited and you can do it in a couple of days of investigation, that would rock... but if it'll take a week, it's probably not worthwhile?
13:54:43 <nickm> isabela: ok
13:54:52 <teor> nickm: my mistake, no, he hasn't, but he did provide the original IPv4 list
13:55:11 <isabela> teor: you are talking about #15228 right?
13:55:36 <nickm> dgoulet: rather, it might be worthwhile, but probably we should spend our time getting even more critical stuff done
13:55:41 <dgoulet> nickm: could probably a couple of days yes I think (by looking at the description)
13:55:44 <teor> isabela: yes, #15228 for fallback dirs, not the IPv6 one
13:55:45 <nickm> great
13:56:09 <teor> nickm, isabela, apologies for the confusion, was slow on the typing
13:56:14 <nickm> no worries
13:56:29 <isabela> ok! about #15235 / i will leave it as red in march.. if we can start working on it, we can update it
13:56:34 <isabela> dgoulet: ^^
13:56:35 <dgoulet> nickm: I don,t guarantee anything but clearly putting that on my stack and will make sure to not slip on critical stuff, cool!
13:56:42 <dgoulet> isabela: sounds good
13:56:44 <isabela> cool
13:56:53 <isabela> that's it for march, lets move to april
13:56:54 <nickm> dgoulet: grand
13:57:03 <isabela> #15233
13:57:06 <nickm> #15233 requires some design thinking
13:57:14 <teor> that's a good record for march, isabela
13:57:26 * isabela normally buys cake whenever the team kills a server or old versions of things
13:57:42 * teor believes the cake is a lie
13:57:53 <isabela> ! after meeting I will share a photo
13:58:03 <nickm> We know how to get rid of support for those versions, but we're worried that doing so on the server side might cause zombie clients to DoS the network
13:58:08 <teor> isabela: it's a Portal game reference
13:58:27 <teor> nickm: botnets?
13:58:51 <dgoulet> so probably good to have a dark hole on relays for 0.2.3, just making them wait or ?
13:59:05 <nickm> possibly botnets possibly just Tor 0.2.3 installations that start on boot that the user no longer users.
13:59:22 <isabela> nickm: have we ever measured how long it takes for an upgrade to propagate over the network?
13:59:40 <nickm> isabela: I think we have stats on server usage, but I don't know that we do for client versions
13:59:49 <nickm> Kicking servers off the net is easy; those versions are already off the net
13:59:56 <isabela> ok
14:00:19 <isabela> I think we should move this to may, is important to figure this out
14:00:24 <nickm> agreed.
14:00:32 <isabela> ok
14:01:01 <nickm> the things for "give proposal XYZ to fundraising" are stalled because we are between fundraisers.
14:01:06 <teor> nickm: so does this involve providing them with an empty consensus or something?
14:01:37 <nickm> teor: depends what their behavior would be in that case.  Would it be to stop building circuits, or would it be to hammer the directory authorities? :)
14:01:47 <isabela> nickm: should I move those to may? (fundraising)
14:01:55 <nickm> isabela: I think maybe June.
14:01:59 <isabela> yeah
14:02:04 <isabela> sounds better indeed
14:02:12 <teor> nickm: ah, so "more research needed"? I wondered why the ticked was vague about the issue
14:02:45 <nickm> teor: I think I should just try to write up everything I know there and everything I don't know and we'll look for a good solution.
14:02:56 <teor> nickm: sounds good
14:03:12 <isabela> ok -> Collect big research project list
14:03:21 <isabela> not sure what this is for, but should we move it to may?
14:03:26 <nickm> let's.
14:03:27 <isabela> ok
14:03:31 <teor> nickm: is there a fix for the root cause of that issue, or will it happen with 0.2.4 as well?
14:03:39 <isabela> we have 3 things in may already
14:03:41 <nickm> teor: which issue?
14:03:47 <isabela> and one is green!
14:03:53 <isabela> #8374
14:03:56 <teor> nickm: the zombie old relays issue
14:03:59 <nickm> isabela: right, because we saw #15228 before
14:04:04 <isabela> :)
14:04:10 <nickm> teor: not zombie relays, zombie clients
14:04:20 <teor> oops
14:04:24 <nickm> teor: no, but we should try to think of one
14:04:53 <nickm> isabela: if #15228 gets done for IPv6, then #8374 is easy
14:04:58 <isabela> cool
14:05:12 <isabela> I guess my main question is!
14:05:22 <isabela> is there anything in september that can be moved to may?
14:05:24 <nickm> teor: please answer weasel's question on #tor-project ? :)
14:05:48 <nickm> isabela: I can get some guides written, I bet.  And anti-DoS procedures would be good.
14:05:59 <nickm> We can get offline ed key storage merged if we get #12498 reviewed
14:06:20 <nickm> we really _need_ to get a smart guard selection plan done.
14:06:30 <nickm> Or we won't get a smart implementation done
14:06:42 <nickm> that's going to be a collaborative design effort though.
14:06:50 <nickm> I think we should at least try that one in May
14:06:51 <isabela> hmmm
14:06:55 <teor> isabela: #8374 also depends on #6027, which isn't closed yet
14:07:04 <isabela> ok
14:07:51 <isabela> 'Rigorous quard selection specs' and 'Write one or more anti-DOS proposals'
14:07:54 <isabela> moves to may?
14:09:25 <isabela> if so, I think we are good to go for now!
14:09:30 <nickm> I think so.  So can "Merge offline ed keys" I hope
14:10:09 <isabela> cool
14:10:12 <isabela> will add that one too
14:10:23 <isabela> alright I will edit wiki now if we are all good
14:10:26 <nickm> ok great
14:11:00 <nickm> I've got to add a couple of chutney ones for semptember afterwards, since the prototype for chutney2 didn't turn out as well as I wanted so there's going to have to be more design/prototype stages
14:11:18 <nickm> that sound ok?
14:11:28 <isabela> sim
14:14:28 <nickm> ok
14:14:36 <nickm> any more for today at the meeting?  I will still be on IRC...
14:15:06 <dgoulet> all good here
14:15:24 <isabela> cool
14:15:28 <nickm> #endmeeting