14:27:39 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team
14:27:39 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Sep 14 14:27:39 2017 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:27:39 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:27:42 <karsten> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Ou-1QRctynWbF4yedi-MfDsjImFMFSIEP20fbVGCPRa <- agenda pad
14:27:51 <karsten> let's start with the first topic.
14:27:59 <karsten> (rather than collect even more)
14:27:59 <karsten> * Swift Java 8 transition (iwakeh)
14:28:12 <iwakeh> right. any objections ;-)
14:28:26 <iwakeh> the reason is that
14:28:47 <iwakeh> I'm writing a lot new code for the webstats tickets now.
14:28:57 <karsten> I'd say, in the code bases where we already switched to java 8 it's fine to start using java 8 features.
14:29:23 <iwakeh> Well, and writing
14:29:48 <iwakeh> j7 just to start using j8 a few days later is not really  hmmm ..
14:29:59 <karsten> sure.
14:30:03 <iwakeh> which is referring to metrics-lib.
14:30:06 <karsten> aha!
14:30:17 <iwakeh> so, if we use j8 in all projects
14:30:20 <karsten> well, that one needs to stay java 7 until all dependent code bases are 8, right?
14:30:33 <iwakeh> now, the next m-l release can be j8.
14:30:41 <iwakeh> not really,
14:31:01 <karsten> and code bases using that version will need to update to 8?
14:31:05 <iwakeh> all code bases already are fine with j8.
14:31:08 <karsten> (fine by me.)
14:31:18 <iwakeh> also fine by oracle
14:31:23 <karsten> hehe
14:31:25 <iwakeh> and their migration guide.
14:31:35 <iwakeh> and actually we're releasing
14:31:59 <iwakeh> the code already using java 8 (its in the meta-inf).
14:32:23 <karsten> okay. I forget the details about the order here.
14:32:33 <iwakeh> i.e., you use oracle jdk 1.8 on osx.
14:32:50 <iwakeh> I thought about this again.
14:33:08 <karsten> if you tell me what steps to take, I can take them. like, release something or merge something.
14:33:17 <iwakeh> There is no code that would have to be changed to run on j8.
14:33:40 <iwakeh> so, the steps for getting j8 out could be
14:34:20 <iwakeh> to start releasing everything as j8,
14:34:37 <iwakeh> in the order we think is best.
14:34:44 <karsten> which order would that be?
14:34:59 <iwakeh> depends on the other reasons for releasing.
14:35:15 <karsten> we could put out minor releases with just this change.
14:35:34 <iwakeh> Would you prefer a separate release for each product here?
14:35:38 <karsten> sounds like 1-2 hours of work, and then this discussion will never come up again. :)
14:36:05 <iwakeh> just without any other changes?
14:36:14 <karsten> why not?
14:36:23 <iwakeh> minor or medium?
14:36:53 <karsten> err, you mean 2.0.0 or 1.5.0 or 1.4.2? (examples)
14:36:56 <iwakeh> The order doesn't really matter  much
14:37:05 <karsten> which would be major, minor, patch.
14:37:19 <karsten> going from 1.4.1 in that example.
14:37:26 <iwakeh> major.medium.minor
14:37:36 <karsten> okay, then medium.
14:37:44 <karsten> (I think)
14:37:57 <karsten> but, I don't feel strongly.
14:38:02 <karsten> major seems to much.
14:38:07 <karsten> minor might work, too.
14:38:09 <iwakeh> what about a bulk release?
14:38:25 <karsten> which would be multiple releases at the same time?
14:38:29 <karsten> with 1 announcement?
14:38:32 <iwakeh> all products together, b/c there are no interdependencies.
14:38:43 <iwakeh> yes, one announcement.
14:38:49 <karsten> what about m-lib?
14:39:03 <karsten> including m-lib or not?
14:39:06 <iwakeh> m-l is released, too
14:39:19 <karsten> sounds good.
14:39:23 <iwakeh> but not yet used in the j8 version in the other j8 releases.
14:39:30 <karsten> yeah..
14:39:44 <iwakeh> only after that.
14:39:52 <iwakeh> fine :-)
14:39:53 <karsten> okay, I think I can do that. that is, prepare pre-releases tomorrow.
14:40:00 <iwakeh> great!
14:40:26 <iwakeh> Oracle is threatening shorter release cycles ;-)
14:40:40 <karsten> heh
14:40:45 <karsten> okay, sounds like we have a plan.
14:40:50 <iwakeh> so, we better practice these updates ...  ( 8 to 9 is really long).
14:41:04 <karsten> we're getting better at releases. :)
14:41:12 <iwakeh> true!
14:41:22 <karsten> thanks for pushing us in that direction! :)
14:41:30 <karsten> next topic?
14:41:33 <iwakeh> thanks for going along!
14:41:41 <iwakeh> yes
14:41:46 <karsten> * Atlas integration to Metrics website (irl)
14:41:55 <irl> ok, those screenshots i was making
14:41:58 <irl> https://imgur.com/a/p6nUf
14:42:02 <irl> that's done, right?
14:42:32 <iwakeh> cool!
14:42:37 <karsten> done?
14:42:40 <irl> heh
14:42:46 <irl> so some issues that i have noticed
14:42:56 <iwakeh> the tables?
14:42:59 <irl> top.jsp in the website doesn't provide a means for modules to insert things into <head>
14:43:11 <irl> which is probably an implementation issue for karsten
14:43:20 <karsten> hmm, yes.
14:43:51 <irl> the other thing, which is more problematic, is jquery
14:44:02 <irl> ideally i'd like to be using the same jquery that the rest of the site is using
14:44:10 <irl> but this may present compatibility issues
14:44:24 <irl> it's long been my goal to update jquery on atlas to a more recent version
14:44:26 <karsten> which one is more recent?
14:44:37 <irl> metrics-web must be more recent
14:44:54 <karsten> okay. do you expect major problems there?
14:45:10 <irl> i expect to have to do a bit of work to get it to work
14:45:23 <irl> but once it's caught up then it shouldn't be too much work to update it going forward
14:45:31 <irl> i just wouldn't want to let it get so far behind again
14:45:44 <irl> so i'm wondering how often we update things like font awesome, bootstrap, jquery etc
14:46:06 <karsten> huh, good question.
14:46:19 <karsten> a lot of these things are new.
14:46:26 <karsten> we don't have a lot of practice with that.
14:46:45 <iwakeh> we don't have releases yet either.
14:46:48 <karsten> I think I updated something a few weeks or so ago.
14:46:53 <iwakeh> for metrics-web.
14:47:00 <karsten> in any case I'd say we can coordinate such things.
14:47:04 <irl> this is ok, it means we can figure it out as we go along
14:47:12 <iwakeh> true,
14:47:15 <irl> as long as we're not fixed into something bad
14:47:18 <karsten> rather than just throwing a new version on you.
14:47:24 <irl> yep
14:47:55 <irl> i'm planning to push changes later today in a branch on my personal atlas repo
14:48:05 <karsten> cool!
14:48:07 <iwakeh> regarding releases for metrics-web:
14:48:20 <irl> i'll push to a github pages branch so it's something that can be played with also
14:48:41 <iwakeh> I would suggest starting to tag the updates as release in git
14:48:59 <iwakeh> starting with the 'release' for jQuery?
14:49:08 <karsten> hmmm
14:49:19 <karsten> we're changing things all the time on metrics-web.
14:49:19 <iwakeh> or, do we have tags here?
14:49:29 <karsten> I'm not sure how releases would make that unnecessarily hard.
14:49:33 <iwakeh> tags are cheap.
14:49:44 <karsten> (not talking about the modules here.)
14:49:53 <irl> i would maybe tag when you deploy
14:49:55 <iwakeh> rather for being able to revert stuff more quickly.
14:49:57 <karsten> so, releases without tarballs and all that?
14:49:58 <irl> that's basically an internal release
14:50:03 <iwakeh> right
14:50:13 <karsten> do you mind writing down a process?
14:50:17 <iwakeh> so we know what is running.
14:50:18 <karsten> scribble down.
14:50:26 <iwakeh> can do.
14:50:38 <karsten> thanks!
14:51:49 <karsten> irl: please let me know what you need in <head>.
14:52:11 <irl> karsten: it's just css includes i think
14:52:29 <karsten> ok.
14:52:35 <irl> some foreach loop over a set of additional css in the jsp would do it
14:52:50 <irl> i could even make you a patch
14:52:53 <karsten> ok. I think we're already doing something for including the title.
14:53:02 <karsten> sounds related.
14:53:02 <irl> yep, exactly that
14:53:12 <karsten> okay!
14:53:15 * irl is happy that course in java web dev is getting use
14:53:22 <karsten> haha
14:53:25 <irl> ok cool, there's probably more things that will pop up but that was all for now
14:53:28 <iwakeh> hehe
14:53:40 <karsten> great! really looking forward to this!
14:53:44 <karsten> 5 minutes left.
14:53:48 <karsten> * Berlin meeting in two weeks (karsten)
14:54:00 <karsten> I haven't heard back about onionspace.
14:54:02 * irl has emailed travel@ for approval but not heard back, so unable to book flights
14:54:15 <karsten> shall we search for alternative meeting places?
14:54:40 <iwakeh> could onionspace be occupied?
14:54:47 <irl> what other meeting places would we have available?
14:54:49 <karsten> we don't have a key.
14:55:01 <iwakeh> karsten mentioned beta-haus
14:55:02 <karsten> that's the main issue with onionspace.
14:55:19 <karsten> yes, though we'd probably want a small room there.
14:55:28 <karsten> rather than meet in the cafeteria, for example.
14:55:34 <karsten> I don't know whether that's possible.
14:55:39 <iwakeh> there are also many other co-working spaces in berlin.
14:55:51 <karsten> would you be able to find one for us?
14:56:06 <iwakeh> I could take a look,
14:56:12 <iwakeh> what budget is there?
14:56:28 <karsten> uhm.
14:56:43 <karsten> let's say 250 eur?
14:56:56 <karsten> (not yet approved, just to have an idea)
14:57:02 <iwakeh> ok, I can take a look
14:57:05 <irl> are we fixed on berlin? i can probably just book a room at the university
14:57:14 <iwakeh> I never used such a thing before here.
14:57:39 <karsten> I think berlin is relatively cheap overall.
14:57:47 <iwakeh> so, I don't know the range, but it sounds ok
14:57:51 <karsten> with 1 person being local and 1 person, well, nearby. ;)
14:57:57 <iwakeh> we don't need technology, just
14:58:00 <irl> ok
14:58:20 <iwakeh> a table chairs a white-board or flipchart.
14:58:22 <karsten> we need a room, internet, food.
14:58:29 <karsten> and that.
14:58:35 <iwakeh> catering?
14:58:45 <irl> i'm sure we can find a nearby coffee place
14:58:46 <karsten> no, food nearby works, too.
14:58:50 <iwakeh> or food in the neighborhood?
14:58:53 <karsten> yep.
14:59:12 <iwakeh> YEAH, i WOULDN'T LOOK IN THE OUTSKIRTS OF TOWN, DON'T WORRY.
14:59:21 <iwakeh> sorry, for the caps.
14:59:23 <karsten> okay, it's 15 UTC. :(
14:59:24 <karsten> hehe
14:59:33 <karsten> agenda.
14:59:36 <irl> karsten: should i be concerned about lack of reply about flights
14:59:38 <karsten> let's start making an agenda.
14:59:49 <karsten> irl: no, I'll follow up as soon as we have settled on a place.
14:59:55 <irl> ok cool, thanks
15:00:05 <karsten> let's collect ideas what to talk about.
15:00:15 <iwakeh> new pad?
15:00:17 <karsten> and let's maybe do such risky things that irl did and ask the community what they'd like us to do.
15:00:22 <iwakeh> I can add one.
15:00:30 <karsten> sounds good. please add a link.
15:00:35 <irl> heh
15:00:37 <iwakeh> will do.
15:00:42 <karsten> great!
15:00:57 <karsten> okay, last topic for today:
15:01:02 <karsten> some pending reviews:
15:01:08 <karsten> #16596
15:01:12 <karsten> #22836
15:01:22 <karsten> and #23391 (not in needs_review)
15:01:23 <iwakeh> Could you add review-priority here?
15:01:32 * iwakeh reviews in that order.
15:01:43 <karsten> added. in that order.
15:01:52 <karsten> what other reviews are pending?
15:02:04 <karsten> that is, anything that I should review?
15:02:11 <iwakeh> fine, no show-stopper.
15:02:16 <karsten> okay!
15:02:23 <karsten> great. I think we're done.
15:02:39 <irl> (:
15:02:39 <iwakeh> ok, lot's to do.
15:02:40 <karsten> I moved the trac topic to next week.
15:02:45 <iwakeh> fine
15:02:46 <karsten> indeed!
15:03:07 <karsten> okay, thanks for coming! bye, bye! :)
15:03:13 <karsten> (and sorry for rushing!)
15:03:14 <iwakeh> bye, bye!
15:03:24 <karsten> #endmeeting