17:59:32 <flexlibris> #startmeeting
17:59:32 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Nov  1 17:59:32 2017 UTC.  The chair is flexlibris. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:59:32 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:59:42 <flexlibris> who is here for the community team meeting?
17:59:51 * Phoul is here
18:00:07 <catalyst> hi
18:00:19 <anadahz> hello
18:01:26 <flexlibris> the agenda is: 1. team updates, 2. roadmapping (for ourselves and alongside other teams), 3. community team monthly update
18:01:47 <flexlibris> does anyone want to start with an update of what they've been working on since our last meeting?
18:01:52 * Phoul can go
18:01:55 <flexlibris> please do
18:02:06 <Phoul> Went to the dev meeting, had lots of good conversations and made good progress on various tasks. I did some testing to see if an RT email gateway would work (it did not work as expected), got animation titles translated for Steph, s
18:02:10 <Phoul> tarted looking into systems that could work for frontdesk@ that don't involve RT, answered tickets on RT, got the bulk of the content for a relay operators blog post written out, looked into static website solutions for the support
18:02:14 <Phoul> portal (Lektor / Jekyll), did some cleanup of Transifex teams. Communicated with L10Lab about a sprint they are having. The remainder of this week for me will be getting some new languages added to the Tor Browser User Manual, getti
18:02:18 <Phoul> ng the frontdesk@ plan sent out to people, and buckling down and clearing out the RT queue, also likely getting the relay blog post finished and released. I'm also starting to prep for a talk I will be giving at a local college in t
18:02:22 <Phoul> he next month or so, and working with some students from this college to get a relay up and going.
18:02:25 <Phoul> Woow that split badly, im sorry.
18:02:56 <flexlibris> that's a lot!
18:03:07 <flexlibris> Phoul: can you fill people in about what frontdesk@ is?
18:03:14 <Phoul> Sure!
18:03:56 <flexlibris> also, if you haven't yet, please make sure to add your talk next month onto the events calendar
18:04:05 <Phoul> frontdesk@ is an address that currently has Alison, myself, Tommy and Steph (I might be missing someone, sorry), basically its the first contact point now for people looking to reach Tor. The contact page used to list execdir, now it lists frontdesk. Its currently a mix of support requests and general office requests.
18:04:28 <flexlibris> not Tommy, Jon Selon
18:04:39 <Phoul> oops, I think Tommy is on it too though.
18:04:54 <flexlibris> oh okay
18:05:08 <sukhe> that sounds great. would it be fine to point users to this address then or should we wait for the other support thing (sorry I don't know what that was supposed to be)
18:05:10 <Phoul> Jon is who i was missing, sorry Jon!
18:05:39 <Phoul> For support requests, we have told people on the contact page not to use the address for htat. But we are still answering the support requests that com ein.
18:05:44 <flexlibris> sukhe: so we've actually got some updates on the support portal too, and I'm happy to fill that in, in case Phoul doesn't want to do all the talking
18:06:16 <flexlibris> mainly sukhe the frontdesk@ is a stopgap, because we didn't have any general point of contact for users
18:06:49 <sukhe> ah I see. ok I will wait to see what the support portal is then :)
18:07:12 <flexlibris> any other comments or questions for Phoul?
18:08:01 <flexlibris> okay, I'll do my update next since there are a few things related to what Phoul shared
18:08:07 <anadahz> Phoul: is there any clear plan on how we will proceed with i18n (localization) stuff, such as translations to the website?
18:08:45 <Phoul> For website localization, no. No solid plan exists yet. That is another task I will be looking into, however there are a bunch of potential blockers.
18:09:21 <flexlibris> can you talk about what some of the blockers are?
18:09:38 <Phoul> I think at the meeting it was determined we should look into translating at least portions of the website, and stop waiting for the website rewrite grant coming in.
18:09:47 * Samdney arrives too late. F**** clock change
18:10:34 <flexlibris> the entire website redesign is moving slower than intended since the funding hasn't come in, but it is still happening
18:10:38 <Phoul> The main blockers are the website rewrite that has been "coming soon" for a while, the current website layout is not super great for localizing, and webml is not pleasent to deal with. The main thing that has blocked until now is waiting for the rewrite.
18:11:02 <Phoul> The current plan is to try and translate the downloads page and present it in a useful way, as a step 1
18:12:09 <flexlibris> I'll fill in the support portal stuff here, because I think we will be able to prioritize translation for that
18:12:34 <Phoul> Sounds good, and I agree, if its not the main Tor page speeding up translation for it should be possible.
18:12:41 <flexlibris> so, absent the official website funding, we are moving ahead with creating support.torproject.org
18:13:15 <anadahz> Meanwhile what could be the best way to get translations from contributors?
18:13:54 <Phoul> anadahz: not sure what you mean by that. We will be using Transifex / the translators there mostly.
18:15:14 <anadahz> I mean if I have a person saying: "Hey I can help you to translate the Tor website in Portuguese." What should be a good answer to this person?
18:15:45 <anadahz> apart from waiting for the site to be ready.. :)
18:15:59 <Phoul> Have them email colin@torproject.org. If they are *only* interested in translating the website, there isnt a lot they can do currently. If they wanna do general translation, I can get them setup on Transifex.
18:16:34 <flexlibris> but perhaps they'd want to help translate the support portal
18:16:49 <Phoul> Right, or other Tor components :)
18:16:52 <anadahz> Phoul: Excellent! May I ask what you are going to reply them to this question?
18:17:28 <Phoul> I'll send the Transifex instructions I have, and explain the situation with the website if they ask about it. Also answer questions they will likely have about Transifex.
18:17:46 <anadahz> As I may do this directly as people usually trust/will engage in communication with a person that already know.
18:18:04 <flexlibris> anadahz: do you have a suggestion for making it easier for translators to contribute?
18:18:08 <Phoul> anadahz: I can send it to you, but if they dont go throuyh me they will be waiting longer to be approved.
18:18:37 <anadahz> Phoul: Is Torproject's website translatable via transifex?
18:18:46 <Phoul> (Or rather, I need to at least end up with their Transifex name. If you onboard them, I can just approve them with the name)
18:18:57 <Phoul> We could put it on Transifex in its current form, it is not on there though.
18:19:26 <flexlibris> might that be worth doing, since we don't know when the main website redesign will happen?
18:19:34 <anadahz> flexlibris: I don't have any concrete suggestion yet but we are getting there.. :)
18:19:38 <Phoul> I think starting with the downloads page makes sense.
18:19:53 <Phoul> Putting everything up not knowing how we will integrate might end up with a lot of unused work.
18:20:26 <flexlibris> that's what I figured. then again, maybe it is worth it if only to get better localization in the short term.
18:20:39 <flexlibris> anadahz: I wasn't sure if you had something particular in mind :)
18:20:56 <anadahz> During the Tor meeting we somehow decided to take more action on the localization part of the website rather than waiting for the new website to be build and deployed.
18:21:18 <Phoul> If we start with the downloads page, we can get that done and added to the website and see how it works. If it goes well, can add the rest if we want. We could put them all up at once, but we only have an integration plan for the download page.
18:21:34 <anadahz> Can we revert the website to it's previous multi-language format?
18:22:26 <Phoul> I dont know for sure, but I dont think the website was hugely different as far as format goes. The languages are just all very outdated, and it was always decided not to update until the rewrite.
18:23:01 <flexlibris> I think anadahz is right, that at this point it is better to iterate on something rather than just wait
18:23:17 <flexlibris> so it seems to me that we need to decide what the best way forward is for that
18:23:29 <Phoul> I agree, that was the plan with doing the downloads page first. Get that done and integrated into the website, see where the issues are, and then move onto the rest.
18:23:34 <Phoul> Downloads was just picked as the most important to do first.
18:23:42 <flexlibris> anadahz: how does that sound? piece by piece approach?
18:24:52 <anadahz> Is it significant more difficult to enable  multi-language support for the complete website, instead of separate parts?
18:25:24 <Phoul> It will be slower to get any of them in place if we do them all at once.
18:25:27 <anadahz> I believe if we do a call for updates to translation a bunch of people will show up and help to translate or update the translated text.
18:25:54 <flexlibris> would it be worthwhile to do a website translation sprint?
18:26:51 <anadahz> Phoul: does this requires to be manually triggered? I need to learn a bit more on how the website localization used to work, is there a ticket/wiki/doc where I could look at?
18:28:13 <anadahz> flexlibris: I guess it makes sense, people will be happy to see their favorite website (torproject.org) speak multiple languages :)
18:29:07 <flexlibris> I'd be happy to help organize something like that. I want to see what Phoul thinks first though, and if he sees that creating any problems for integration or anything.
18:29:13 <Samdney> (apart from the case they visit it over Tor ;)
18:29:15 <flexlibris> or if he thinks it wouldn't be faster than just using Transifex
18:29:41 <Phoul> A sprint is only really useful if we are targeting a specific language, and I dont think it could be done in a day. The last sprint I was at, a lot got done, but no where near our website.
18:29:48 <anadahz> Samdney: depending where they exit from ;)
18:30:14 <Phoul> Doing a sprint on a handful of pages vs the whole thing would probably work better.
18:30:32 <flexlibris> Phoul: would a sprint on a handful of pages be faster than Transifex on a handful of pages?
18:31:26 <Phoul> Generally yes, however our language coverage would be lower. It would still need to go in both places, I think. Unless we got a lot of translators to attend.
18:31:52 <Phoul> Transifex isnt slow though. If I put up the downloads page, wed have completed languages by the end of the week.
18:32:45 <flexlibris> plus, organizing a sprint would take some of our time. it seems like Transifex is the right thing going forward, and maybe we just need a plan for which parts of the site will follow Downloads
18:32:58 <anadahz> What is the magic sauce to make the current website to support different --apart from the translated text-- ?
18:33:59 <Phoul> I dont think there is any. However the old method kind hid the localizations (from what I remember), and we want them to be fairly obvious, so we will be adding some kinda language selector to the downloads page.
18:34:55 * anadahz is searching Trac about i18n and the tpo website
18:35:23 <Phoul> The last time they were enabled as 5-6 years ago, if that helps any.
18:35:40 <flexlibris> this conversation is really important and it seems like it would be better served by having a meeting dedicated to it
18:35:58 <flexlibris> I can follow up with both of you about that
18:36:03 <Phoul> +1, I'm happy to oragnize one. Can send something out on community list about it.
18:36:19 <flexlibris> let's do that
18:36:30 <anadahz> Great!
18:36:35 <Samdney> +1
18:36:43 <flexlibris> thanks for bringing it up anadahz
18:36:51 <flexlibris> okay I'm gonna do my update real quick
18:36:58 <anadahz> I guess most of the website text hasn't changed that much
18:37:10 <flexlibris> the support portal is being created right now. hiro is working on the platform, Antonela is doing the design, Isa is project managing, and Phoul and I are contributing the content.
18:37:18 <flexlibris> one of our priorities is translation!!!!!!!!!!
18:37:55 <flexlibris> you can see the mockup the ux team put together here: https://marvelapp.com/4471ig9/screen/34237911
18:38:10 <Phoul> so pertyy
18:38:14 <flexlibris> actually I think that mockup was Antonela alone. yay Antonela.
18:38:29 <armadev> i am alive (will read backlog in a bit). let me know if there is anything i should be helpful about!
18:38:40 <flexlibris> we're all really excited about getting this done
18:38:53 <Samdney> looks great
18:38:55 <flexlibris> armadev: glad you're alive, and you should be excited that we're building support.torproject.org
18:39:10 <flexlibris> other things that are happening: team roadmaps
18:39:39 <flexlibris> here is a draft of the Community Team roadmap that Phoul and I worked on at the meeting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1biph8qhxvUc_VetcaJjkS9H3kKC95yPB9Z1VhZLypIQ/edit#gid=0
18:40:10 <flexlibris> it's not in its finished form of course -- all of the teams are going to review each others roadmaps and identify dependencies and make changes
18:40:35 <flexlibris> if you want to come to a meeting about cross-team roadmapping, it will be in this room on Friday November 3 at 1600 UTC
18:40:47 <armadev> neat. carry on. :)
18:40:54 <flexlibris> I'll send the time and the other team roadmaps to the community team mailing list
18:41:18 <flexlibris> but I think this is really good. it will help a lot with inter-team communication and having a shared vision and all that
18:41:31 <armadev> agreed
18:41:54 <flexlibris> the code of conduct draft is currently in the hands of Erin Wyatt and the Community Council to get their direct feedback
18:42:09 <flexlibris> if anyone wants to read the current draft and contribute feedback, I can send you a link
18:42:20 <Samdney> here, I want read
18:42:21 <flexlibris> I am not sharing it in here because as it turns out, codes of conduct drafts are a lightning rod for jerks!
18:42:50 <Phoul> Id be interested in reading it :)
18:42:58 <flexlibris> msging it to you both now
18:43:04 <Samdney> thanks
18:43:44 <Phoul> thank you :)
18:43:45 <flexlibris> also, there is a Tor Meetup being planned for Primavera Hacker in Chile in December. I am only tangentially helping with that, so perhaps anadahz could give a longer update on that meetup :)
18:43:52 <anadahz> if it's not a secrit I would also like to read it :)
18:43:59 <flexlibris> not at all sekrit
18:44:24 <flexlibris> it's just that I opened a trac ticket a while ago that I planned to put a link to the draft into
18:44:40 <flexlibris> but then like, all these nazis showed up to call me an SJW and tell me that I'm ruining Tor blah blah blah
18:45:04 <flexlibris> so I decided not to put a link on that ticket :)
18:45:24 <flexlibris> Phoul mentioned that we're working on a post for relay operators
18:45:42 <flexlibris> the working title is "so you wanna be a relay operator?" and we're trying to include a lot of helpful info for people just getting started
18:46:08 <flexlibris> this is part of a bigger effort to give better support to our relay community, and it's just one of a few things we're doing
18:46:12 <anadahz> flexlibris: before going into that may ask what is planned about the items on the spreadsheet: 'Research/write drafts for Global South/relay operators support funding' and 'Global South Tor Meetup: Primavera pilot planning' ?
18:46:36 <flexlibris> anadahz: yes, the first thing is that we're going to be looking for funding for these things
18:47:07 <flexlibris> so these LatAm meetups for example...I'd like to find a funder to give us money to support all the travel needs, planning, resources, that kind of thing
18:47:23 <flexlibris> the second thing is mainly just a note to make sure that the Primavera Tor Meetup has everything it needs
18:48:00 <anadahz> neat! let me know if you need any help with that
18:48:01 <flexlibris> oh on the funding note too -- I'd like to ask a funder for a full-time Tor person to be a relay operator supporter
18:48:18 <Samdney> great idea!
18:49:10 <flexlibris> anadahz: definitely. I think these Tor meetups are super important and I'm trying to figure out ways that we can do many of them all over the place.
18:49:30 <flexlibris> another thing I'm working on is the meeting follow up
18:49:41 <flexlibris> so if you attended the meeting, please fill out the survey I sent around
18:49:51 <flexlibris> the Montreal meeting that is
18:50:30 <flexlibris> I'm also doing the preliminary planning for my new project, Library Freedom Institute, which is a 6-month course on privacy for librarians that will run two times
18:50:55 <sukhe> oh that's an interesting idea
18:51:08 <flexlibris> I'm also preparing to give a talk at this conference in Paris in two weeks: http://freedom-of-research.org/
18:51:29 <flexlibris> sukhe: it's basically building on what I've been doing with LFP for the last three years, but creating more librarians who can go out and train others
18:51:46 <Phoul> That sounds awesome :)
18:51:52 <Samdney> +1
18:51:55 <flexlibris> I will teach them a lot of things, but if you have ideas about what you think someone in that course should learn, please let me know :)
18:52:15 <flexlibris> that's mostly it for my updates
18:52:30 <armadev> seems like bringing in guest tor speakers at the right time could be smart :)
18:52:42 <flexlibris> armadev: why that's exactly what I plan to do
18:52:59 <armadev> (...with enough schedule planning that the guest tor speakers can actually make it)
18:53:06 <flexlibris> yes indeed :)
18:53:13 <sukhe> we start with armadev I guess :)
18:53:27 <flexlibris> the first round of the institute doesn't begin until June 2018, so I've just started asking for guest lecturers
18:53:57 <flexlibris> anyone else want to go next with an update?
18:54:12 <sukhe> I can go next if I am not blocking anyone
18:54:20 <flexlibris> I don't think you are, please go ahead
18:54:26 <sukhe> ok great
18:54:38 <anadahz> In which regions/countries are the round of the institute going to take place?
18:54:48 <sukhe> on Sunday I gave a talk at the CJFE in Toronto http://www.cjfe.org/digital_self_defence
18:55:13 <sukhe> more information is on the tor-community mailing list. (let me know if you have any feedback about the slides)
18:55:44 <sukhe> it was mostly a healthy mix of activists, human rights workers and journalists
18:56:18 <flexlibris> anadahz: oh yeah, forgot that important part. it's a federal US grant that stipulates that only US states and territories can participate, HOWEVER everything will be open sourced (lectures, assignments, etc)
18:56:37 <flexlibris> anadahz: the grant is actually named after George W. Bush's wife :/
18:56:46 <sukhe> from the global south, hackbeach (https://hackbeach.in/) would love to have us give a talk about Tor (thanks to Maria for introducing me to the organizers)
18:57:09 <flexlibris> that sounds great sukhe
18:57:14 <sukhe> but I don't want to make the trip without having more events on the calendar
18:57:34 <flexlibris> maybe you could ask the organizers to help you be in touch with more people locally?
18:57:35 <sukhe> so I am talking to the kind people at HasGeek (https://hasgeek.com/) who are trying to put me in touch with other organizations in the country
18:57:42 <sukhe> (thanks again to Maria for the introductions :)
18:57:50 <flexlibris> Maria is so great at that
18:58:02 <sukhe> flexlibris: yup, already done that and they said they would try as well
18:58:15 <sukhe> I will keep the community informed
18:58:34 <flexlibris> great
18:58:44 <sukhe> one last update: The Toronto Public Library (which I absolutely love) is organizing courses on digital security and privacy
18:58:49 <sukhe> http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/detail.jsp?Em=1&Entt=RDMEVT21813&R=EVT21813
18:59:00 <flexlibris> sukhe: I worked with them on starting that!
18:59:06 <sukhe> oh!
18:59:07 <flexlibris> they're really cool
18:59:13 <sukhe> do you know the speaker is? I haven't heard anything about them
18:59:28 <sukhe> Jonathon Hodge
18:59:41 <flexlibris> yes, he works for the library and he's been running their privacy series
18:59:43 <flexlibris> he's great
18:59:51 <flexlibris> he brought me there back in November of last year
19:00:09 <sukhe> nice. so I will go and see what they have to offer and maybe try to have a Tor talk at the series (but making sure I don't step on his toes)
19:00:23 <flexlibris> the director of TPL was really excited about Tor at the time, and Jonathon was working on a proposal to put TB on all their computers and also run a relay. I should follow p on that.
19:00:34 <flexlibris> sukhe: I think he'd welcome you. I can introduce you over email if you'd like.
19:00:57 <sukhe> that would be great please! I was wondering how we can engage with them
19:01:05 <flexlibris> okay I will do that today
19:01:12 <sukhe> thank you
19:01:14 <sukhe> that's all fro my side
19:01:37 <anadahz> neat! thanks for the updates
19:02:05 <flexlibris> anyone else have an update?
19:02:08 <anadahz> anyone else want to post updates or shall I go?
19:02:36 <flexlibris> please go anadahz
19:02:40 <anadahz> right
19:04:02 <anadahz> After the Tor meeting in Montreal, I went back to Rio in Brazil where I organized a Tor meetup and spoke to some local groups about Tor and how they cold support Tor by running relays.
19:04:50 <gman999> (worth a blog post IMHO)
19:04:57 <flexlibris> +1
19:06:03 <anadahz> I'm invited to LAVITS to present a paper about censorship in LATAM and the Carribean, where I plan to participate/create a panel related to anonymity, surveillance and censorship (http://lavits.org/v-simposio-internacional-lavits-2017-chile/?lang=en)
19:06:40 <flexlibris> I saw that you already added that to the events calendar, so I will not ask if you've added it to the events calendar :)
19:06:45 <anadahz> Preparing for a keynote talk at ENUCOMP IT conference (http://www.enucomp.com.br/2017/programacao/keynotes) in Paraiba, Brazil
19:07:19 <anadahz> Trying to get some local contacts to organize also a Tor meetup there.
19:07:41 <sukhe> anadahz: just curious, are these events in Portuguese or English?
19:09:10 <anadahz> Preparing for the Primaverahacker '17 (http://2r7tsyrz24hfqplc.onion/) were I talked to multiple people/groups from the LQBQTTI community that are going to participate anyway to Primaverahacker'17 and I wish I could invite some more people from Brazil.
19:09:49 <flexlibris> anadahz: is there anything we can do to help support more people attending?
19:09:57 <anadahz> As the work (grant) of Derechos Digitales related to Tor community and Tor relays excludes Brazil.
19:10:09 <armadev> (or "portuñol")
19:10:41 <anadahz> sukhe: portuñol or English depending on the attendants preference
19:10:51 <sukhe> ok
19:11:00 <flexlibris> anadahz: what I have in mind for the Global South grant you asked me about earlier is essentially very similar to what Derechos Digitales got
19:11:27 <flexlibris> so we should definitely talk about that some more soon
19:11:43 <anadahz> flexlibris: yes, we can support them by paying their flights which are not expensive at this time (Brazil <-> Chile).
19:11:56 <flexlibris> anadahz: send me the details and I'll find out if it's possible
19:12:08 <anadahz> flexlibris: great thanks!
19:13:24 <anadahz> So I started worked again with the relays operators, it seems that some people were activate old unmaintained relays from the Tor BSD diversity galera (group) and a number of relays operators in Brazil.
19:13:55 <anadahz> (eg.: https://github.com/torbsd/torbsd.github.io/tree/egypcio/docs/pt/)
19:13:59 <gman999> (i pinged egypcio to get here)
19:14:06 <gman999> :)
19:14:31 <anadahz> Some relay operators seem to respond a bit more happily about the Tor t-shirts :)
19:14:45 <flexlibris> yay
19:14:48 <Samdney> \o/
19:14:49 <flexlibris> thank kat5 for that
19:15:04 <flexlibris> any other feedback about what would make them happy?
19:15:44 <sukhe> I can't speak for anadahz but one thing people wanted was stickers, especially the ones for the webcam
19:15:59 <sukhe> somehow I have found people associate with covering up with the webcam
19:16:01 <anadahz> Meanwhile I research a friendly professional monitoring system for relays.
19:16:11 <flexlibris> sukhe: good to know
19:16:15 <anadahz> oh yeah the cam stickers were awesome!
19:16:53 <gman999> anadahz: what do you mean by "monitoring system for relays">
19:16:56 <gman999> ?
19:17:10 <anadahz> flexlibris: building local communities around relay operators helps a lot
19:18:09 <anadahz> gman999: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2017-October/013315.html
19:18:30 <flexlibris> indeed, and I'm glad you are doing all this work on meetups to do exactly that.
19:18:43 <Phoul> anadahz: I will send you some details on Coldhak's monitoring setup.
19:19:09 <anadahz> and I finally managed to get privileged access to a VM hosted at the university were I'm right now, Teresina, Brazil
19:19:44 <anadahz> When we sort out the firewall issues we are going to have a nice exit relay from this university network!
19:19:56 <sukhe> nice
19:20:08 <flexlibris> excellent
19:20:52 <anadahz> I hope I don't forget anything, and sorry for going overtime!
19:21:13 <anadahz> Phoul: thank you!
19:21:23 <flexlibris> thanks anadahz!
19:21:49 <flexlibris> anyone else?
19:22:40 <flexlibris> nope? okay, let me just say this -- the only other thing I had on the agenda was the monthly community team update
19:22:41 <gman999> anadahz: let's discuss monitoring on another channel aftr this)
19:22:52 <flexlibris> I think that since we only met once this month, I have a lot of our updates in this meeting log
19:23:01 <flexlibris> but if you have anything else to update tor-project about, send me a message
19:23:24 <flexlibris> otherwise, I will send it out tomorrow.
19:23:30 <flexlibris> okay, maybe we are finished?
19:23:33 <anadahz> gman999: sure which channel?
19:23:45 <gman999> not this one! (armadev :)
19:24:01 <gman999> tor-project
19:24:05 <flexlibris> okay, ending the meeting
19:24:06 <flexlibris> #endmeeting