19:00:12 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser 19:00:12 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Nov 6 19:00:12 2017 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:12 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:14 <GeKo> hi! 19:00:27 <boklm> hi! 19:00:29 <isabela> o/ 19:00:32 <GeKo> welcome to another tor browser meeting 19:01:05 <GeKo> who wants to go first with status updates? 19:01:56 <GeKo> alright, seems i can go 19:02:24 <GeKo> so last week (and actually part of the week before) i was occupied with the sec bug related release 19:02:38 <GeKo> it was a tricky one 19:02:47 <isis> o/ 19:02:55 <GeKo> so thanks to everyone who helped with it and that we finally got the updated bundles out 19:03:06 <GeKo> even if it breaks functionality a bit 19:03:19 <GeKo> then i started to catch up with reviews and merging stuff 19:03:38 <GeKo> i did so for #10026 #23228# 23456 19:03:54 <GeKo> and #23997 19:04:23 <GeKo> furthermore i reivewed# #23261 a second time and found a way to reproduce another bug 19:04:47 <GeKo> then i started witht he begin of the month admin work and am almost done with it 19:05:00 <GeKo> i finished #23409 19:05:17 <GeKo> and planned a bit for the nominally last month of sponsor4 19:05:40 <GeKo> this week i plan to move the sponosor8 hiring forward; there is still one position missing 19:05:52 <GeKo> then i need to take roadmap feedback into account 19:06:03 <GeKo> return to cloudflare related work 19:06:20 <GeKo> and start looking at #12420 and #20322 19:06:34 <GeKo> we need to prepare regular releases 19:06:45 <GeKo> (yes, this kind of thing is still existing) 19:06:52 <GeKo> and then start building stuff 19:07:09 <GeKo> boklm: i'll be in valencia next week, so i am not sure what i can commit to wrt releasing 19:07:22 <GeKo> i definitely plan to tag all the things and build both alpha and stable 19:07:36 <GeKo> but am not sure whether i get to sign all the things or put stuff out 19:07:39 <GeKo> probably not 19:07:43 <GeKo> that's it for me 19:08:03 <armadev> 'one position missing' -- does that mean we filled some? 19:08:03 <boklm> ok, I can do the signing if needed 19:08:25 <GeKo> armadev: yes, it seems we have two browser devs for mobile 19:08:32 <GeKo> who will start soon 19:08:38 <armadev> yay. i look forward to seeing the announcement. 19:08:54 <GeKo> who is next? 19:08:58 * arthuredelstein can go 19:09:11 <arthuredelstein> This past week I worked on #21394 and #24052. 19:09:21 <arthuredelstein> (No zwiebelbot I guess) 19:09:28 * GeKo wonders where the bots are 19:09:36 <isabela> :( 19:09:44 <mcs> Trac seems to be really slow at the moment 19:09:52 <isabela> (might have died during reboots?) 19:10:00 <isabela> (the bots) 19:10:13 <arthuredelstein> I also worked on #18101 for windows (URL in file dialog thing) and I'm think I am close to a solution that will work. 19:10:23 <arthuredelstein> This week I want to work on finished my #18101 Windows patch, and examine how I can test for Mac, 19:10:40 <arthuredelstein> Then try to finish up #22343, and, when I can, get back to Intel MPX and ubsan stuff. 19:10:40 <hiro> (mcs on a separated channel you can pass me some more info about your trac slowness) 19:11:13 <arthuredelstein> That's it for me 19:11:20 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: one thing i was wondering is whether you could have a look at #24154 as well 19:11:34 <GeKo> this might interest you and is part of our sponsor4 stuff 19:11:51 <GeKo> boklm is working on it too (the build related part at least) 19:11:58 <arthuredelstein> Yes, I'll look into it 19:12:09 <GeKo> but he could maybe need some help given that we only have about 4 weeks left 19:12:12 <GeKo> thanks 19:12:27 <arthuredelstein> evil pseudo-reloc 19:12:27 <GeKo> so there is no need to deploy all fuzzing framworks we can find 19:13:04 <GeKo> put picking some or one after some investigation and try to get it goiong for our tor browser patches would be neat 19:13:12 <GeKo> *going 19:13:23 <GeKo> that would be pretty helpful 19:13:36 <tjr> You can ask the FF fuzzing team if they do anything special to try and target fuzzers like jsfunfuzz at particular APIs 19:13:39 <GeKo> given i am away next week due to the OTF summit and the upcoming release 19:13:43 <tjr> might narrow things at particular TB patches 19:13:54 <GeKo> oh, that might be cool as well 19:14:16 <GeKo> and might save us time 19:14:20 <GeKo> thanks tjr 19:14:45 <tjr> Another approach that might save time is get FF fuzzing with the --enable-hardening flag _and_ getting that flag matching tor's build hardening flags 19:15:02 <tjr> right now --enable-hardening implies fstack-protector=strong only 19:15:18 <tjr> I hope to reland fortify_source=2 this week (by default not just behind that flag) 19:15:34 <tjr> but in general landing flags behind --enable-hardening is easy because it's non-default 19:16:16 <GeKo> maybe. i think the deliverable is more a like "have an asan build + some fuzzing tool to check for issues in patches" thing, though 19:16:23 <tjr> ah gotcha 19:16:48 <GeKo> okay. who is next? 19:17:15 * boklm can go next 19:17:33 <boklm> This past week I went to the reproducible build meeting which went well, and I helped build and publish the new releases. 19:17:37 <boklm> Today I started 2 Windows 64 builds on 2 machines to see if they match. 19:17:44 <boklm> This week I'm planning to send to tbb-dev a small summary of the reproducible build meeting, and some ideas of things we could do. 19:17:51 <boklm> Then I'm planning to finish cleaning all Windows 64 patches to make them ready for review, then do #23738. 19:17:59 <boklm> If enough time I will also start looking at #24154 and #21998. 19:18:04 <boklm> That's it for me. 19:18:42 * mcs will go next 19:19:01 <mcs> Last week, Kathy and I revised our patches for #23261 and #23262 (new Tor Launcher UI). 19:19:12 <mcs> We also helped with #24052 (security firedrill) including researching other possible bypasses and testing GeKo's fix on macOS. 19:19:18 <mcs> This week, we will revise the Tor Launcher UI patches again (#23261 and #23262). 19:19:23 <mcs> Thanks to GeKo for reviewing that code and for finding things that need to be fixed. 19:19:28 <mcs> Then we will get back to work on moat integration (#23136). 19:19:33 <mcs> The status of the moat work is that we are working on the code that will make requests to BridgeDB (including parsing of the responses), but it is not finished yet. 19:19:40 <mcs> We should be ready to start testing that code soon, which is exciting! 19:19:44 <mcs> That’s all for us. 19:19:50 <isabela> hi mcs o/ i have some follow up with tor launcher stuff 19:19:57 <isabela> and isis has some questions too 19:20:07 <tjr> boklm: At some point I should sync with you and learn what i need to do to get FF building for 64bit inside of TaskCluster 19:20:09 <isabela> (should we do now or after meeting?) 19:20:32 <mcs> isabela: maybe after the status report phase is done? 19:20:40 <isabela> isis: ^^ 19:20:42 <GeKo> tjr: i think there should be all relevant bugs filed in bugzilla 19:20:42 <isabela> cool ! 19:21:17 <GeKo> although maybe the nsis one needs to get fixed, hm 19:21:34 <tjr> I think there's just one or maybe two; but I meant more 'confirm that these compiler flags are needed and do the things' 19:21:41 <boklm> does firefox use nsis too? 19:23:03 <GeKo> okay. who is next? 19:23:38 <tjr> FF uses NSIS, yes 19:23:57 <tjr> I can go 19:24:15 <isis> isabela: mcs: okay! i have to take off around 19:50 UTC to go to a mozilla meeting, but i could also talk after that 19:24:33 <tjr> I have been working on getting --enable-webrtc compiling with MinGW. There's a lot of bugs and I need to get back to them and clean them up, but i have solved all but a couple linking ones 19:24:54 <tjr> I also began, then paused in the middle of, getUserMedia and WebRTC related prefs to confirm they do the things we expect them to do 19:25:23 <tjr> There's a pref for disabling camera, mic, and screensharing we should put in the slider, I'd suggest 19:26:00 <tjr> (I also spent some time working on bwauth graphs for arthur's dns connection stuff but that's not too related :) ) 19:26:07 <tjr> I think that's it 19:26:46 <GeKo> thanks. 19:26:55 <GeKo> anyone else here for some status update? 19:27:06 <boklm> tjr: ok for doing a sync about Windows 64 builds at some point 19:27:39 <GeKo> isabela: okay, the floor is yours :) 19:27:50 <GeKo> (discussion time) 19:29:05 <GeKo> isis: you can go ahead as well while we wait for isa 19:29:25 <armadev> while we wait for isa to type, i wanted to let people know about an initiative i'd like to start where we call out amazing volunteers and jon sends them swag 19:29:50 <armadev> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/24148 is the ticket 19:30:01 <GeKo> +1 19:30:08 <arthuredelstein> great idea 19:30:13 <armadev> in an ideal world we would have it be part of the weekly process, where each week you notice the people who have been great for that week 19:30:26 <armadev> so, if you interacted with a great person this past week, please let us know 19:30:51 <tjr> +1 (We already did this with Jacek actually) 19:30:58 <mcs> maybe that should be a standing agenda item for these meetings 19:31:05 <armadev> yes please :) 19:31:06 <mcs> (so we remember) 19:31:20 <armadev> tjr: jacek? 19:31:24 <GeKo> caban 19:31:31 <GeKo> the mingw-w64 person 19:31:35 <tjr> JAcek Caban has helped a lot over the years with the Windows MinGW builds 19:31:46 <armadev> great 19:31:54 <arthuredelstein> Is there a place/person we should send these to? 19:32:13 <armadev> arthuredelstein: there is no process for that yet. "accumulate them here and get them to jon" is the best plan we have now 19:32:20 <arthuredelstein> o! 19:32:22 <arthuredelstein> k 19:32:51 <armadev> jon seems to have the right instincts in how to make people feel appreciated 19:33:29 <armadev> i've been thinking of telling him "imagine that the tor office lost its puppy, and you were really worried, and this person showed up at the office out of nowhere holding your puppy. what would you want to do to make them feel appreciated?" 19:33:50 <GeKo> hah 19:35:11 <GeKo> do we have anything else to discuss while we wait for isabela and isis? 19:35:51 <armadev> i've been wondering if a future tor launcher would want to use the tor in-process api, so tor is run in a thread and there is no external control port etc 19:36:10 <armadev> (partly stalling for isis and isa, partly actually curious) 19:37:05 <isis> ooops, sorry, got distracted helping atagar 19:37:11 <GeKo> np 19:37:25 <mcs> armadev: I have not thought about it, but it is an interesting idea. But there are implications for sandboxing and more, I am sure. 19:37:56 <armadev> mcs: good point. (man, why isn't this security thing easier.) 19:38:03 <GeKo> isis: so, what can we help with? 19:38:31 <isis> i was just wondering how the tor launcher using meek to talk to bridgedb was coming along, since i'm finishing up a beta of the server and i was wondering if we potentially want some sort of option to be able to hit moat resources not through a meek tunnel 19:39:32 <isis> i.e., if we're htitting a bunch of problems going through meek, should i go through the extra work to make moat also work not through meek? 19:39:40 <mcs> We started with getting the meek tunnel part working, so at this point we are happy to just use meek. But we will know more once we have the two sides talking :) 19:39:50 <isis> ok great 19:40:08 <isis> i should have a preliminary test server up today or tomorrow 19:40:15 <mcs> great! 19:40:26 <isis> it's still buggy, be warned, but you can talk to most of it :) 19:40:39 <mcs> I am sure our side is buggy too ;) 19:40:57 <isis> haha 19:41:06 <isis> ok cool, that's all from me 19:41:12 <GeKo> thanks. 19:41:23 <isabela> ! 19:41:29 <isabela> sorry i got distracted with an email 19:41:35 <GeKo> isabela: you have the mic now! 19:41:59 <isabela> yes! 19:42:15 <isabela> i will start an email thread to do check ins on the tor launcher stuff :) 19:42:33 <isabela> i gave the heads up to the network team already, i think that will help coordination 19:42:41 <isabela> specially with the holidays season coming up :) 19:42:57 <isabela> also, i do want to talk about roadmaps a little bit 19:43:04 <GeKo> you mean on improving the ui further wrt to boostrap messages? 19:43:21 <isabela> yes 19:43:23 <GeKo> (re email thread) 19:43:26 <GeKo> ok, thanks 19:43:45 <isabela> i hope to keep these things in the check in email: 19:43:46 <isabela> Tor Launcher work check in - moat implementation, check in with Browser team too, progress bar msgs. 19:43:49 <isabela> *keep track 19:44:00 <isabela> is beyond just the sponsor4 stuff 19:44:17 <isabela> but of course, it has that stuff too :) 19:44:18 <isabela> anw 19:44:41 <isabela> re:roadmaps :) i hope to work with the ux team this week and start building a roadmap we can eventually share with y'all 19:45:02 <isabela> i knwo TB is a team with depencies crossed with ux so i wanted to give you this heads up 19:45:06 <GeKo> i think the outline we made for the OTF piece 19:45:11 <isabela> *dependencies 19:45:19 <GeKo> and which we incorporated into our roadmap was not so bad 19:45:26 <isabela> i agree 19:46:06 <isabela> (and once all roadmaps exist i will send a note to tor-project sharing them, i am trying to give a heads up on that too because is a public list) 19:46:20 * isabela is done 19:46:37 <GeKo> alright, thanks! 19:47:09 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: mcs: i might grab you for some last minute reviews this week (it's release week). just as a reminder :) 19:47:57 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: mcs: actually, speaking of which: if you could look at #16678 that might be useful 19:48:11 <GeKo> this is matt's keyboard fingerprinting enhancement 19:48:23 <GeKo> and it should be in the alpha if possible 19:48:42 <GeKo> that said: anything else for today? 19:48:50 <mcs> GeKo: We will take a look. 19:48:55 <arthuredelstein> #16678 a little complicated because I think Mozilla came up with a divergent idea 19:48:58 <arthuredelstein> for solving it. 19:49:23 <GeKo> arthuredelstein: okay. could you update the ticket with that info? 19:49:30 <arthuredelstein> Yes, will do. 19:49:31 <mcs> arthuredelstein: Does that mean we should wait on Matt’s patch? 19:49:43 <GeKo> then we can think whether we want to move forward with matt's patch or not 19:49:48 <mcs> sounds good 19:49:49 <arthuredelstein> I'm not sure. It's a good patch in the meantime, so maybe we should 19:49:58 <arthuredelstein> But I think Mozilla's approach might be better in the longer tem 19:50:00 <arthuredelstein> term 19:50:45 <arthuredelstein> GeKo: Also, yes, I'll stay alert for any other needed reviews! 19:51:16 <GeKo> :) 19:51:30 <GeKo> thanks all then for the meeting *baf* 19:51:32 <GeKo> #endmeeting