17:59:38 #startmeeting tor browser 17:59:38 Meeting started Mon May 7 17:59:38 2018 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:38 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:42 hi! 17:59:47 hi! 17:59:51 hello! 17:59:53 hello :) 18:00:00 (: 18:00:08 ftr here is the meeting pad: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N 18:00:19 greetings 18:01:06 morning/afternoon/evening! 18:02:25 hi all :) 18:04:22 everyone here? 18:04:29 i hope so 18:04:40 i assume everyone has added their notes to the pad 18:04:52 and read through all the notes 18:05:40 it seems there are some items highlightes in individual reports but nothing for the group right now 18:06:09 arthuredelstein: i was wondering what to do with #22343 for esr52 18:06:19 because we won't ship it directly in the stable 18:06:35 but there is no other alpha planned based on esr52 18:07:30 sysrqb: what do you mean with "Begin designing Tor Launcher for Android"? 18:07:57 i wonder how that relates to the things that are to do for the first alpha release 18:08:57 GeKo: Yes, I'm not sure. I can rebase it to ESR60 of course. 18:08:58 Yes, because Mozilla prefer rewriting their desktop add-ons in Java for Android, I suspect we will do the same for tor launher 18:09:23 i want to start this early so we have time for iterating before the first alpha 18:10:28 i don't know how much of tor-launcher add-on we can re-use on Android, yet 18:11:49 ok 18:11:51 i think the original proposals we wrotemay not be practical, so i want to re-evaluate that idea 18:12:09 (maybe i should've written that, instead) 18:12:20 sysrqb: igt0: who is working on the proxy bypass evaluation? 18:12:33 I would be interested in an answer to “why Java instead of JavaScript?” 18:12:58 mcs: from mozilla or us? 18:13:14 arthuredelstein: i think that would be better, sorry for not mentioning earlier 18:13:23 because then we can test it in the upcoming one 18:13:29 sysrqb: I guess from Mozilla since it sounds like they made that decision. I am just curious if they have a good reason :) 18:13:35 GeKo: I think that's the better decision, actually. 18:13:45 good! 18:14:14 GeKo: I wanted to work on that after we agree on the base for #25741 18:14:29 arthuredelstein: the other thing, how far are you into the tor-browser-build patching for esr60? 18:14:33 because there are some proxy-bypass i already included 18:14:45 and some I think we should fix after merging that 18:15:09 mcs: my understanding is they thought it provided better usability 18:15:18 arthuredelstein: i think having a linux version working is worthwhile 18:15:39 mcs: the UI/UX was more natural when it was re-written natively 18:15:59 arthurdelstein: i suspect right now we only need to add clang support by bumping the version to 3.9 as stylo needs this 18:16:11 and maybe some additional headers 18:16:14 sysrqb: OK; thanks! 18:16:28 arthuredelstein: so, if you want to add that, please go ahead 18:16:51 i think the macOS part might be trickier. especially i am inlcined to try to fix #9711 while we are at it 18:17:10 so, i'd say for now hold off with that part 18:17:39 GeKo: OK, sounds good. I'm focused on Linux right now and hoping to get something working as soon as possible. 18:18:00 So I'll be putting my efforts on that this week. 18:18:45 okay. #24631 is the parent ticket for all the toolchain updates fwiw 18:19:27 sysrqb: sounds good to me. 18:19:39 cool 18:20:20 sysrqb: are you still hitting crashes with the patches for #25741? 18:20:49 GeKo: No, I haven't seen any crashes 18:21:06 not anymore (at least) 18:21:17 I hd a problem with the emulator i was using :/ 18:21:21 *had 18:21:48 that's... good news i guess :) 18:21:56 it's better :) 18:21:59 heh 18:22:34 * dmr finally caught up on the scrollback here and the pad (sorry - been a bit behind!) 18:22:43 boklm: so the bisecting is ongoing for more than two weeks now, is there any blocker we could think about helping with? 18:24:24 I'm hoping to find the commit causing the issue this week 18:24:47 anything else we have for today before we move on to the discussion time? 18:25:08 boklm: sounds good (and i guess that's a "no" to my questions :) ) 18:26:16 pospeselr: I'm having a look regarding your question and will post soon. 18:26:24 ok thanks! 18:26:25 *question 18:26:25 (in the pad) 18:26:34 alright, discussion time then i guess 18:26:45 i had two items 18:27:08 the meeting invites for the dev meeting should be out by now 18:27:56 after the rome meeting i had the idea to meet one day earlier already to have a tor browser team meeting day like the network team did in the last times 18:28:13 to make it easier to do the roadmapping 18:28:38 and then incorporate other team feedback and finish the roadmap during the regular team meeting day 18:28:57 does that sounds like a thing we shuold try this time? 18:29:01 *sound 18:29:48 If you think we need that extra time, then it makes sense for our team to arrive earlier. 18:30:18 Doing so might provide more time for coordination among teams, as you said. 18:30:57 it sounds good to me 18:31:24 +1 18:31:37 well, i don't know if it takes extra time. but getting the actual roadmap sorted out essentially after the meeting with all the inputs during the meeting day 18:31:55 + the roadmapping on that day itself was quite some effort 18:32:08 i think that should not be as hard as it was for me 18:32:35 and i have the feeling it would help having a team day a day earlier already 18:32:58 an extra day certainly shouldn't hurt 18:33:06 Let’s try it then in the hope that it will reduce pain overall :) 18:33:53 okay. i'll send an email around later today or tomorrow making this explicit and then everyone can try getting tickets to mexico city 18:34:05 (and back home) 18:34:32 the other item i have: 18:35:02 how much should we care about the nightlies being busted during the toolchain update? 18:35:10 we can't land everything at once 18:35:40 and i tried to update just clang today to 3.9 in order to test the linux build with esr60 but that already broke the osx build 18:35:57 so, even smaller changes will probably break things 18:36:18 do we just say "it's broken now but we are fixing this as fast as possible" 18:36:28 and not bothering much about landing patches? 18:36:56 or do we think we's should write additional code to make sure the build on other platforms is not affected 18:36:58 ? 18:37:35 I am not sure who our “consumers” are for the nightly builds, but it seems OK to break things and just communicate about the breakage. 18:38:07 like sending a mail to tbb-dev? 18:38:15 i guess that communication goes along with the nightly build emails? 18:38:32 well, we know when it is broken, yes 18:38:50 But do other people know that you know? 18:39:09 i don't know? :) 18:39:31 i guess tbb-dev@ mail won't hurt 18:39:47 It might be good to send a message to tbb-dev if it won’t be fixed for a couple of days. Use good judgment. 18:40:11 well, i think announcing it anyway would be good 18:40:43 Is there a way to subscribe to a list to receive email about the nightly builds? 18:41:05 I'd love to use a nightly build for user testing 18:41:20 yes, I can add people who want to receive emails everyday about nightly builds status 18:41:38 are those emails archived anywhere? 18:41:43 GeKo, antonela: is user testing scheduled already? 18:41:54 okay, hearing no voices saying "DON'T BREAK THE NIGHTLY BUILDS WHILE UPDATING THE TOOLCHAINS FOR ESR60", good 18:42:07 :) 18:42:26 so, we just break macOS and windows and fix that up as fast as we can 18:42:35 sysrqb: emails are not archived, but you can see the status on http://f4amtbsowhix7rrf.onion/reports/index-tor-browser_build.html 18:42:42 dmr we're working on it 18:42:46 while linux nightlies will essentially be available all the time 18:43:13 okay, anything else for today to dicuss? 18:43:15 GeKo: That sounds like a good plan to me. 18:43:42 boklm: nice, thanks 18:43:57 antonela: cool! I was just asking because it sounds like the ESR60 "nightly broken period" might not be before user testing 18:44:05 (which is a good thing) 18:44:33 erm, I said that wrong - I mean... the ESR60 "nightly broken period" would be done by user testing 18:44:46 one reminder to everyone: i plan to ge started with the "face" to "face" feedback idea at the end of may/begin of june 18:45:20 dmr yes 18:45:23 please start thinking about the items you want to raise (i'll do so myself as well) 18:45:57 i'll reach out to everyone in a bit asking for preferred medium of the feedback and a date etc. 18:46:01 just as a heads-up 18:46:37 GeKo: is there an update about the open position? 18:47:06 not that i know but i can ping erin 18:47:29 just curious 18:47:52 you are not alone :) 18:48:32 okay, thanks for the meeting today and have a nice week everyone! *baf* 18:48:37 #endmeeting