17:58:56 #startmeeting tor browser 17:58:56 Meeting started Tue Jul 3 17:58:56 2018 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:58:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:08 hello everyone! 17:59:13 !! 17:59:13 hello! 17:59:29 hi 17:59:35 i know we all miss our monday meetings but we'll get to them again soon i guess 17:59:53 the pad as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N 17:59:58 hi! 18:00:08 please enter your stuff if not done yet and makr things to discuss bold 18:00:45 hi everybody! 18:02:33 hi! 18:02:44 pospeselr: i guess #26450 could be another rabbit holw 18:02:48 *hole 18:02:55 please don't spend that much time on it 18:03:01 could be, but i'm a bit smarter this time around 18:03:10 hah 18:03:13 i looked at it a bit yesterday, and have a few promising leads 18:03:18 kk 18:03:27 hello 18:03:44 we could *maybe* modify xmlhttprequest to take a system principal in JS, as the 'correct' one with the right first party domain exists 18:03:50 otherwise , just picking up fingerprinting tickets mcs filed yesterday is the way to go 18:03:53 and is accessible 18:03:58 aye aye captain :) 18:04:06 those are tagged with ff60-esr, tbb-fingerprinting and marked as prio "high" 18:04:09 :) 18:04:46 mcs: what are we doing about those intermittent update failures? 18:04:54 that's only affecting win64, right? 18:06:07 GeKo: Yes,Win64 only as far as I know. I think we need to investigate more. 18:06:41 Maybe we can try to reproduce with an ESR60-based updater. 18:06:58 (if it happens with ESR60, it might make sense to focus on fixing it there) 18:07:02 should we wait until we have the esr60-esr60 update? 18:07:15 i.e. the next alpha out? 18:07:37 Maybe, although brade and I can set up an “in the lab” update experiment with our own Windows build. 18:07:50 When is the next alpha release? 18:07:58 not decided yet 18:08:06 but i guess end of july does make sense 18:08:27 like in week 30 18:08:42 which means 3 weeks from now 18:09:14 OK. We will see if we can do something before then. I don’t like intermittent signature verification failures. 18:09:25 yes, indeed 18:09:31 thanks 18:09:45 np 18:09:50 mcs: what's the plan with #26381? 18:10:11 i assume you did not drop this by accident from the "soon" things :) 18:10:38 Actually, that was an accident. Sorry! 18:10:39 * pospeselr brb 18:10:57 I think your suggestion is a good one: try to produce a smaller test case. I’d also be happy to give that bug over to someone who is good at debugging on Windows *cough* 18:11:18 (looks like pospeselr left just in time) 18:12:22 hah 18:13:04 igt0: sysrqb: we should sync about our mobile plans and where we are 18:13:16 i guess we can do that ofter the meeting in the other one 18:13:34 yeah 18:13:35 just that we are on the same page for the release and what we should focus on 18:13:45 +1 18:14:14 good. 18:14:28 arthuredelstein: how is it going with the performance patches? 18:14:47 i am worried that we don't have enough time to look at all the new fingerprinting things 18:15:11 I'm largely up to speed on builds so I'll need to get an idea of how I can help on the mobile side 18:15:27 great! 18:15:27 GeKo: Optimistic SOCKS is tough. I'm hoping to get some help from someone on the mozilla side this week 18:15:30 * pospeselr back 18:15:52 arthuredelstein: yeah, that's what i assumed. please don't burn your time on that one 18:16:07 it's the first i'd postpone even if it hurts 18:16:16 I am more optimistic about http2 actually. but I agree fp is important too 18:16:41 rfp 18:16:46 yep 18:16:59 so, in doubt http2 and fp things 18:17:15 and we hope mozilla can help us with the optimistic socks one somehow 18:18:02 right. For optimistic socks I will focus on asking questions rather than beating my head against the wall :P 18:18:14 :) 18:18:34 sisbell: so, how is it going with the reproducible builds? 18:18:50 have you started integrating the mobile part? 18:19:05 I've got various versions of the build working 18:19:17 But I'm not sure what I need to be integrating 18:19:43 okay. 18:20:33 I think I'll need to get a few specific tasks defined to get started 18:21:44 so, right now we want to have tor-browser-build set up in a way that we get a mobile browser artefact as output 18:22:12 for instance, if you just want to build the browser part for macOS you could run 18:22:22 rbm/rbm build firefox --target alpha --target torbrowser-osx-x86_64 18:22:58 and then the system would at the end give you the compiled firefox for macOS which you could pick up and e.g. bundle 18:23:09 we want to have this for android as well 18:23:39 we can chat about that later on in tor-dev to get the details and questions sorted out 18:23:47 i guess boklm can help here as welll 18:23:50 *well 18:23:57 but that's the goal for now at least 18:24:04 yes 18:24:05 sysrqb: you had an item! 18:24:07 sisbell: a good way to start with rbm is to look at the existing code for the projects 18:24:12 (that's how I did it :) 18:24:55 GeKo: yes! there is an undocumented Windows API for creating a container 18:25:05 and i don't know if it requires adin privileges :) 18:25:13 I assume the first task will be to make a list of all the components we need to build to get an android tor browser built, and then start integrating them one by one into tor-browser-build 18:25:27 Geko: I'll take a look and ping the tor-mobile list with any questions 18:25:37 there's a test written in go we can use and find out if it needs any permissions 18:26:10 if someone has a machine they can test on, that will help us (and tor) in terms of what sandboxing is available on Windows 10 18:26:41 sisbell: tor-dev is better 18:26:52 okay, i only have win7 and win8... 18:26:57 sisbell: i'd prefer keeping all our development discussions out of tor-mobile 18:27:06 or probably tbb-dev 18:27:15 is there a tbb-dev? 18:27:21 (if you are talking about mail) 18:27:27 ah, yes 18:27:29 mail :) 18:27:44 #tor-dev or tbb-dev@ 18:27:45 i think i got confused because sisbell talked about a list 18:27:55 but, yeah 18:28:07 yeah 18:28:12 Wait, so #tor-mobile is OK for development dicussion, right? 18:28:13 i see 18:28:36 i prefer keeping discussions in #tor-dev if it's related to tor browser 18:28:39 even on android 18:28:56 i don't want to isolate tor browser mobil development from everyone else 18:29:05 ok np, I'll ask on #tor-dev 18:29:19 Makes sense. Maybe we should change the channel description then 18:29:20 if #tor-dev gets crowded, then we can move, of course 18:29:34 that's ownd by n8fr8 18:29:38 owned 18:29:44 but we can change it, yeah 18:30:15 do we have anything else before moving on to discussions? 18:31:14 okay, first item mexico meeting 18:31:44 i think arriving on 27th is smart given that we wanted to have some pre-metting tor browser thing 18:31:53 *meeting 18:32:11 i am not sure if it's worth the effort but we'll see this time 18:32:24 if it does not make sense to have yet another day with extra meetings 18:32:51 then we'll do something else next time 18:32:55 I see more people added to the wiki page, so I feel better about purchasing plane tickets to arrive on the 27th :) 18:33:27 yeah, i think that#s a good plan :) 18:33:33 OK; thx 18:33:43 Arrive anytime on 27th for meetings on 28th? 18:33:46 so that means the meeting will be on 28th? 18:34:33 a while ago, after the rome meeting to be more precise, we had thought to try the thing the network team did in rome 18:34:49 to have a day to think about tor browser and what we want to do with it in the coming months 18:35:11 because i had the feeling that it was almost too much stuff on the actual team meeting day 18:35:45 as there was so much things to coordinate between different teams already 18:35:56 s/much/many/ 18:36:26 and that day will be the 28th as the team meetings will start on 29th 18:36:36 sisbell: that would be good, yes 18:37:34 okay, while talking about meetings 18:37:52 i finally plan to take a week off to recover from the past weeks 18:38:10 i plan to be offline starting next monday and i'll be back on 16th 18:38:21 basically to the tor browser meeting 18:38:43 so, you the remaining tor browser team wants to have a sync next week 18:38:48 please organize it 18:38:49 GeKo: enjoy your time off! 18:38:56 otherwise we'll see us on the 16th 18:39:00 mcs: thx! 18:39:15 will do. no computer but books, yay! 18:39:27 perfect :) 18:39:34 nice 18:39:38 everyone but GeKo: should we meet to sync up next week or skip it? 18:40:17 we can just update the pad if we don't have to meet 18:40:33 that's a good compromise 18:40:54 unles there's something that needs discussioning as a group 18:40:59 Sounds good to me. 18:41:02 but that could be best-effort 18:41:18 sounds good. 18:41:24 ping on IRC or via email if we need to “huddle” 18:42:06 sounds good to me 18:42:07 great 18:42:27 so, the final item i have: organizing a sandboxing meeting on irc 18:42:45 i saw that sysrqb sent his lengthy mail to tbb-dev, great! 18:42:51 sysrqb: thanks for the work on that 18:43:14 i like us to meet at some point soon to discuss it and make some decisions on how to move on 18:43:31 i suspect it will be too tight to do this this week 18:43:39 and i'll be away next week 18:43:44 that was my thought, to 18:43:47 o 18:43:54 but we should chat about it in the week thereafter 18:44:31 that sounds good 18:44:32 i hope we can have some mozilla folks attending as well 18:44:46 i guess tjr could ask around 18:45:14 sysrqb: do you think you could nail down a data and time for the meeting during the next week? 18:45:18 *date 18:45:29 yes, i can coordinate that 18:45:35 good 18:45:39 thanks 18:45:56 my original plan was once we have the date and time to reply to the thread on tor-dev 18:46:17 about sanboxed tor browser to announce the meeting there 18:46:31 that might make sure we get a bunch of community input as well 18:46:40 that's a good idea 18:46:44 especially if we log the meeting and put the notes on the thread, too 18:46:46 should i do that? 18:47:08 or should we wait until the following week when you return? 18:47:22 yeah, i guess so as this might give an earlier heads-up to folks 18:47:30 (please do :) ) 18:47:35 okay :) 18:47:47 exciting 18:47:58 that's all i had. 18:48:07 do we have anything else for today? 18:49:25 hearing the usual crickets *baf* 18:49:27 thanks all! 18:49:31 #endmeeting