13:58:13 <antonela> #startmeeting ux team
13:58:13 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Feb 19 13:58:13 2019 UTC.  The chair is antonela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:58:13 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:58:17 <antonela> okey, lets do it
13:58:18 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Meeting Time!
13:58:20 <antonela> hello all :wave:
13:58:32 <antonela> another ux meeting this week
13:58:43 <toast_[m]> Hello!
13:58:45 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Guten Tag
13:58:48 <antonela> hello toast_[m]!
13:58:51 <pili> namaste :D
13:58:57 <emmapeel> namaste!
13:59:05 <antonela> i hope pili is drinking enough chai this days :)
13:59:29 <antonela> lets do the regular things, updates here https://storm.torproject.org/shared/YNciTB6S3HS1bHZSbtFDcm9R5aPTIoeCD__eXHLe7B4
14:00:10 <T__> Hello all
14:00:15 <antonela> review the kanban here  https://storm.torproject.org/grain/2poGSxE3z9a6rNEZ6n3XrP/b/sandstorm/libreboard
14:00:20 <antonela> hi T__
14:00:26 <antonela> i like your nickname :)
14:00:50 <antonela> and please, feel free to add items at the agenda that you need to discuss here
14:01:31 <T__> Thanks Antonella it's Tunde, Maria introduced us
14:01:57 <antonela> hey! how are you Tunde, thanks for joining us!
14:02:06 <hiro> hello
14:02:29 <T__> It's my first time so I'll be doing a lot of learning
14:03:22 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Hey Tunde! From Paradigm Initiative, right?
14:03:37 <T__> Yes! Hello Elio
14:03:48 <antonela> T__ do you want to introduce us what you are doing? I'll add an item at the agenda if yes :)
14:03:57 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Great to have you here. Thanks for taking part in our User Interviews for Explorer :slightly_smiling_face:
14:04:34 <T__> Thanks Elio. And of course for our censorship research on Nigeria last year
14:04:47 <antonela> great, okey lets start
14:05:08 <antonela> elioqoshi, great question about outreachy, pili, what do you think?
14:05:25 <T__> I'm currently studying the low use of censorship circumvention and measurement tools in Nigeria and Ethiopia. Using Tor and OONI probe as a case study
14:05:30 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> I didn't add that question (which is great because it sounds like it would come from me :P )
14:05:39 <pili> that was my question :D
14:05:43 <antonela> ohh haha great
14:05:48 <pili> so... :)
14:05:53 <pili> I think the answer is yes
14:05:56 <antonela> what is the question? if we should apply? yes
14:05:59 <pili> but I wanted to make sure we could have mentors
14:06:03 <pili> and what the project would be
14:06:08 <pili> so I could put something together
14:06:41 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> I'd be happy to mentor someone at OONI, but would need to check-in with the others about that
14:07:01 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> If it's Tor generally, I'd be happy to mentor (maybe a bit less) in any case
14:07:10 <pili> yes! eliqoshi: either would work
14:07:11 <T__> Hello guys, what's the mentoring about? A project?
14:07:12 <antonela> well, we have a lot of projects that can fit at the outreach program
14:07:28 <emmapeel> btw i ran OONI here yesterday in Jakarta and the ISP is blocking pornhub.com and womenonwaves
14:07:42 <antonela> pili: since you are taking over the website :) i can mentor designers for Tor related work
14:08:12 <pili> sounds good!
14:08:13 <antonela> lets check the document we did early this year about what is needed and maybe we can put something together for it pili
14:08:22 <pili> do we want to do something about the styleguide also?
14:08:27 <pili> but we can discuss offline
14:08:34 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> T__ thanks, maybe other's don't have a lot of context too. Outreachy is a program for interns from udner-represented groups to work 3 months on a project. We were discussing now whether it makes sense to mentor one applicant for a UX project
14:08:43 <antonela> yes, resources for the styleguide could we great
14:08:44 <pili> that's all from me :)
14:08:46 <antonela> s/we/be
14:09:48 <antonela> pili, maybe we should include alsmith in this loop and prepare something together?
14:10:02 <pili> yup! he's sort of aware from the fundraising angle
14:10:10 <pili> and we will discuss during this week's fundraising meeting
14:10:13 <antonela> am i wondering if you have any project in mind?
14:10:20 <hiro> pili antonela can styleguide and privacy docs resources go together?
14:10:36 * emmapeel is torn between participating of the meeting or teaching this indonesian girl to use the shell
14:10:39 <hiro> these two things are linked... we might have two different containers... but the reasoning behind them is the same
14:10:41 <antonela> hiro maybe?
14:10:41 <T__> Thanks Elio. That sounds interesting. I'll be interested in participating in this program. Do I represent an under-represented group? From Africa?
14:10:44 <pili> since we (Tor Project) actually has to provide the funding to pay for the intern...
14:11:02 <pili> hiro: I don't see why not :) as long as we can put a coherent project together
14:11:19 <antonela> pili: okey, let
14:11:24 <pili> in any case from what I understand you can get them to start contributing by doing small tasks before formally accepting them
14:11:34 * hiro did read emmapeel was teaching an indonesian girl to use hell :D
14:11:35 <antonela> let's review what we have in our pipeline and prepare something for apply, i think we should do it
14:11:39 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> T__ well, I'd say so. But mostly anyone who feels under-represented is eligible. More infohere: https://www.outreachy.org/apply/
14:12:12 <antonela> user research on censored context is something interesting for outreachy too
14:12:24 <pili> so maybe we can try to think about small tasks to get people started and interested also, something that would then form part of a bigger project
14:13:00 <antonela> okey, lets start a thread about it and we can put something together.
14:13:23 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> (side note: at Ura, we hired our current User Researcher after she did an internship for Usability at GNOME. This could really be something great to start off)
14:13:37 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> (a Outreachy internship I mean)
14:13:53 <pili> ok, I'll put an email together
14:14:24 <pili> is the ux list a good place to send to ?
14:14:51 <antonela> elioqoshi, good to know, someone who can coordinate all those research efforts and put all the people researching over users and usability around Tor could be really helpful for this team
14:16:07 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Indeed
14:16:23 <antonela> pili, mmm im always confused about lists :) if is something we need to coordinate internally, maybe not, if we are calling people for ideas i think that makes sense
14:16:44 <pili> ok
14:16:50 <pili> I'll think about it and decide ;)
14:17:22 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Let's move on?
14:17:29 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> IFF?
14:17:30 <pili> +1
14:19:09 <T__> Thanks Elio, Antonela, Pili. I'll take a look at the outreachy application and look towards submitting something on user research on censored context in Africa. It's something I'm already working on. Sounds good?
14:19:32 <antonela> pili, super
14:19:45 <antonela> IFF, who is going to be there?
14:20:12 <kushal> antonela, me me (if I get the visa).
14:20:15 <kushal> brb
14:20:28 <emmapeel> me
14:20:30 <antonela> kushal, nice! crossing fingers
14:21:03 <pili> I’m most probably going
14:21:04 <pili> Like 95%
14:21:08 <pili> :)
14:21:22 <antonela> pili, greatttt
14:21:40 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> +
14:22:09 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> I will be sharing an Airbnb with Simone and Leonid near the venue
14:22:40 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Planning to be there the whole week
14:22:48 <antonela> elioqoshi, super
14:23:04 <T__> IFF? Won't be there this year.
14:23:21 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> I have a session there with Georgia from Simply Secure
14:23:22 <pili> Actually I already bought my train tickets, arriving Monday morning and leaving Friday afternoon
14:23:35 <antonela> im asking because we are going to have a Tor table and volunteers are welcome, also could be interesting to run TBA user testing, i should coordinate that
14:24:03 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> Ah I didn't know that. Happy to take on some booth shifts
14:24:19 <antonela> yeah, will send an email next week to organize it a bit
14:24:27 <dunqan> oh yeah, that's a great idea for TBA
14:24:43 <antonela> yes, we should have an stable version by then, so let's see
14:25:10 <emmapeel> yeah sajolida is joining us one tday on the table
14:25:17 <antonela> yes, that is great emmapeel
14:25:19 <emmapeel> so we can do a tor/tails day
14:25:36 <pili> ggus is going also
14:25:55 <antonela> yes pili, but he is traveling now and later so probably i need to organize it
14:27:20 <antonela> okey, nexttt
14:27:37 <antonela> tpo issues, pili and I we triaged the tickets opened in trac and moved those to github
14:28:14 <antonela> side note: seems like we are going to have a gitlab instance for the entire project, so probably is better if we move to there. Not sure about dates and anything but just to highlight that gh is temporary
14:28:42 <antonela> pili is adding issues there, everything is mostly css and layout
14:28:49 <dunqan> thanks both for sorting those tickets btw :)
14:29:24 <antonela> about the content, im still waiting for the frizzed version of the about/history from stephw, so emmapeel when i have it live i'll ping you because i know it is affecting translations
14:29:41 <antonela> dunqan thanks you for your qa, was really useful
14:30:08 <emmapeel> antonela: yeah groot.
14:30:19 <antonela> sorry for that delay :/
14:30:51 <antonela> anything else about the website?
14:30:54 <emmapeel> to be honest, i didnt do much computer work this week... i am a bit lal over the place arraging the indonesia workshops and meeting users
14:31:14 <toast_[m]> I'd love to help out with some of the stuff in this ticket 'Review UI at small screens': https://github.com/torproject/tpo/issues/19
14:31:24 <emmapeel> i wonder if we are going to have the community portal lektor soon
14:31:25 <slacktopus> <elioqoshi> So will Tor UX happen over GitLab soon hopefully?
14:31:33 <antonela> toast_[m]: thanks, you can go for it
14:31:45 <emmapeel> also i am getting worried about the lektor i18n plugin devs not responding on the bug tracker
14:31:49 <antonela> elioqoshi praying, yes
14:32:09 <antonela> emmapeel on their bug tracker?
14:32:14 <emmapeel> antonela: yeah
14:32:30 <dunqan> antonela would you like me to retest anything later this week or next, once hiro's had a chance to work through it?
14:32:51 <antonela> dunqan, maybe it makes sense after we are done with this round of issues
14:32:52 <hiro> yes I am going to work through bugs this week
14:33:02 <dunqan> for sure, just ping me when you're ready :)
14:33:13 <antonela> emmapeel, i don't know, which kind of issues are you having?
14:33:38 <hiro> antonela: there was a bug I opened with the lektor i18n plugin people a few months ago
14:33:54 <antonela> is that a blocker for us? hiro emmapeel
14:33:57 <hiro> and they only said they would accept a PR if w did it
14:34:07 <hiro> uhm not necessarily I think
14:34:13 <hiro> it is more a nice to have the way I see it
14:34:26 <hiro> but maybe emmapeel feels differently about the whole issue
14:34:51 <emmapeel> not a blocker for release but i feel we need to have this issues solved https://github.com/numericube/lektor-i18n-plugin/issues
14:34:58 <emmapeel> eventually
14:35:27 <antonela> mmm
14:35:29 <emmapeel> also, i need to pen a ticket on our trac about a vulnerability we open with the html tags
14:35:52 <hiro> which vulnerability?
14:36:29 <emmapeel> the thing about the need to use the |safe tag when sending html to transifex and back
14:36:45 <hiro> ah yes potentially it could be a vulnerability
14:36:52 <emmapeel> so, a rogue translator could inject some stuff there
14:37:03 <emmapeel> and we are automatically adding it to our webpage
14:37:18 <hiro> in which case we are sending the html straight to transifex?
14:37:29 <emmapeel> we could prevent it by not translating html but apparently antonela needs to add the layout to the content so ... :D
14:37:39 <hiro> and can't we just write the html in a way that we send strings?
14:37:49 <emmapeel> i did not manage
14:37:51 <antonela> emmapeel: i don't need that
14:38:08 <emmapeel> antonela: on the template fils
14:38:12 <antonela> emmapeel: we just need to find the way to make it works without sacrifice the layout, if is possible
14:38:29 <hiro> ok so we should have an issue to check all the cases where we use the |safe filter in jinja and write the html in a way that that's not needed
14:38:46 <emmapeel> yep
14:38:55 <emmapeel> sorry i meant to make that ticket but i didnt
14:38:58 <hiro> most of the times we can just break the html so that only text is sent
14:39:02 <hiro> I'll check it out
14:39:34 <antonela> thanks hiro
14:40:06 <emmapeel> i coudl not do that in for example https://gitweb.torproject.org/translation.git/tree/contents+es.po?h=tpo-web#n2082
14:40:29 <emmapeel> or https://gitweb.torproject.org/translation.git/tree/contents+es.po?h=tpo-web#n2176
14:40:46 <emmapeel> or https://gitweb.torproject.org/translation.git/tree/contents+es.po?h=tpo-web#n2204
14:40:49 <emmapeel> anyway you get the idea
14:41:33 <antonela> yes, we probably need to work on the template to having that directly inn markdow
14:41:38 <antonela> markdown
14:41:52 <emmapeel> yes, markdown is safe
14:41:54 <dunqan> Can you filter the HTML possibly?
14:41:58 <dunqan> with a small script?
14:42:12 <emmapeel> maybe we can use some string replacement thing
14:42:22 <hiro> why can't we break that?
14:42:49 <hiro> I mean there is no need to translate for example the mail:to tag?
14:43:17 <emmapeel> but the string has to be whoel, in many languages the mail:to will appear at the start
14:43:21 <emmapeel> is part of the phrase
14:45:03 <hiro> no we don't translate it
14:45:03 <emmapeel> is the 2nd commandment of software localization:  Never Concatenate Strings  https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/07/12-commandments-software-localization/
14:45:15 <hiro> uhm
14:45:23 <hiro> let me show you an example
14:47:09 <hiro> https://gitweb.torproject.org/project/web/tpo.git/commit/
14:47:36 <emmapeel> when the strings are onthe template, we cannot use the markdown link as in [text](link), and if we add for example a class for the link as in "Are you a iOS user? We encourage you to try <a class=\"mx-auto\" href=\"\"><u>Onion Browser.</u></a>" it will not render well after going through transifex and back. we will need to add the |safe tag
14:48:29 <antonela> hey, but this why we have you emmapeel !
14:48:35 <emmapeel> hiro: your example will only work for some languages. not all languages will add the email at the end, some languages need to add stuff after that
14:49:34 <emmapeel> ey, i try to make it work but i cannot make miracles. so if the people in lektor does not know how to strip HTML and the i18n plugin people dont care neither...
14:49:35 <hiro> ok so we could find a way to add those html as macros maybe?
14:49:47 <emmapeel> yeah like with some string replacement thing
14:50:00 <hiro> yeah I can create macros
14:50:12 <antonela> emmapeel: could be interesting to add rules aka documentation for creating templates that contemplates all this localization requierements. t
14:50:17 <dunqan> that's what we did with marysmeals.org when we had a similar issue
14:50:25 <emmapeel> i mean... i can also give a list of requirements for a SSG that will allow localization too but is a bit late for that :D
14:50:25 <dunqan> it was easier than checking it all manually...
14:50:31 <antonela> The community and the devs portals is also coming and more people will be working on it
14:50:34 <hiro> SSG?
14:50:56 <emmapeel> antonela: i did the rules and for example i tried to convince you to use markdown but you said you needed the html layout
14:51:01 <emmapeel> sitatic site generator
14:51:18 <hiro> yeah sometimes we need a bit of layout
14:51:30 <hiro> but we can macro things out!!!
14:51:32 <antonela> emmapeel: that wasn't in that way. I told you that i was working in the layout and also adding content and you should review the localization part of it
14:51:41 <emmapeel> ikiwiki does that well but lektor's i18n support is more a proof of concept. i dont think anybody is using that in production
14:52:26 <emmapeel> specially on the templates. the markdown works well
14:52:57 <hiro> well lektor is a newer project in that sense and the people doing the localization plugin are different from the people doing the framework
14:53:29 <hiro> in any case this isn't a big issue I think we can solve it by using macros.
14:53:37 <antonela> nice hiro
14:54:11 <hiro> in any case no tool is perfect and we would always need work arounds for things like this
14:54:28 <antonela> okey, i would like to give T__ some minutes for explaining the work he is doing
14:54:30 <emmapeel> sure. i am just pointing out that i havent found the workaround for this one
14:57:07 <antonela> T__ are you still around? maybe not :(
14:57:26 <emmapeel> something like in gettext will work: '%s.json' % lang_code
14:57:48 <emmapeel> i mean, in python. i shut up now
14:57:57 <T__> Thanks Antonela. Hello all. I'm working to understand the poor use of Tor and OONI probe, and other censorship circumvention tools in Africa
14:58:10 <T__> and measurement tools
14:58:30 <antonela> that is awesome T__, i saw that isabela already replied to you
14:59:12 <T__> Yes, she asked that I get to know Pili, for the OTF application.
14:59:42 <antonela> could we also coordinate usability research for Tor Browser for Android? i think that will fits really good with your research and since is something new here could be interesting to reach your findings
14:59:59 <T__> Yes of course
15:00:09 <antonela> yes, Pili is our Project Manager and she coordinates grants, so is the best person to help you on it
15:00:48 <dunqan> looking forward to seeing the research T__, sounds really interesting!
15:00:50 <antonela> T__ great, I'll email you with some questions and details about it, i hope we can have an stable version by them
15:00:52 <T__> Ok. Thanks
15:01:04 <antonela> thanks for sharing your work T__!
15:01:15 <antonela> okey, we are lateee
15:01:15 <T__> It's been a pleasure
15:01:23 <antonela> thanks people! see you arounddd
15:01:25 <antonela> #endmeeting