19:59:55 <ahf> #startmeeting anti-censorship checkin 2019/02/21
19:59:55 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Feb 21 19:59:55 2019 UTC.  The chair is ahf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:59:55 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:59:59 <ahf> hello everyone!
20:00:04 <gaba> hello!
20:00:06 * sysrqb lurks
20:00:07 <ahf> our pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-censorship-2019-keep
20:00:14 <cohosh> hi!
20:00:21 <ahf> we only have one discussion item today, which is moved there from last week
20:00:26 <ahf> let's update the pad
20:00:39 <dcf1> i'll read backlog but am unavailable just now
20:00:49 <ahf> oki, cool, dcf1!
20:01:26 <gaba> we are looking at the 'in progress' column of the roadmaps, right?
20:01:36 <ahf> let's update pad first i think
20:01:49 <ahf> we are not as well-prepared for these meetings as for network team, so i think people are updating them right now :-)
20:01:50 <gaba> ok
20:02:02 <ahf> we should probably aim for that next time: let's try to have updates on the pad before we begin the meeting
20:02:10 * nickm is lurking
20:02:12 <ahf> that saved a lot of time for the network team when we started doing that
20:02:58 <ahf> and no vandalism of the pad before this meeting, nice
20:03:34 <ahf> arma1: are you here today?
20:03:51 <blacklight-irc> i just joined in, and ill try if i can see if i can help you guys out as volunteer :D
20:04:13 <ahf> blacklight-irc: welcome!
20:04:22 <cohosh> nice!
20:04:28 <blacklight-irc> thanks!
20:04:31 <ahf> blacklight-irc: don't get scared if some of these things are a bit internal - we have this pad here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-censorship-2019-keep
20:04:37 <ahf> where we write down what we have been working on this week
20:04:41 <ahf> and a bit about what we are going to work on next
20:04:56 <blacklight-irc> no worries, im used to  messy enviorments
20:05:01 <ahf> and the things you write in this pad gets send out in a summary email to tor-project@ mailing list afterwards
20:05:04 <ahf> cool!
20:05:07 <ahf> okay, should we check roadmap?
20:05:14 <gaba> ok
20:05:16 * antonela around
20:05:48 <ahf> gaba: for ... snowflake, right?
20:05:56 <gaba> yes
20:06:03 <gaba> firt snowflake and then the rest s19
20:06:15 <gaba> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/OdNtwrtRrqklh76l4PfcngBbQFDbjv_jRroj0WeSY0B
20:06:21 <ahf> it looks like the testing environment ticket that cohosh has been working on is missing from current in progress stuff
20:06:30 <cohosh> ah yep
20:06:33 <gaba> number?
20:06:39 <ahf> #29489
20:06:49 <blacklight-irc> snowflake is the newer flashproxy right?
20:06:53 <ahf> blacklight-irc: yep!
20:06:55 <cohosh> blacklight-irc: yes
20:07:18 <ahf> blacklight-irc: we are trying to get it more ready for production use right now, so we have been going over its design, some protocol changes we'd like to do and so on
20:07:32 <blacklight-irc> i see it works with webrtc
20:07:36 <ahf> blacklight-irc: we have some notes here: https://github.com/ahf/snowflake-notes/
20:07:41 <ahf> yep, webrtc and websockets
20:07:43 <blacklight-irc> nice
20:07:58 <blacklight-irc> one thing with webrtc, i thought it was disabled in tor browser
20:08:02 <ahf> okay, other than that the snowflake roadmap looks pretty good, right?
20:08:09 <gaba> are the other tickets in the in progress column things you all are working on?
20:08:13 <blacklight-irc> because of ip leaks and such?
20:08:18 <ahf> blacklight-irc: yep! it is, the proxies wont work from torbrowser. the proxy nodes are running in "normal" firefox/chrome
20:08:31 <blacklight-irc> ah, awesome
20:08:33 <cohosh> ahf: i will do the review for #28848 very soon, by the end of tomorrow
20:08:34 <ahf> torbrowser will use a websocket connection to a proxy node (which doesn't run torbrowser) :-)
20:08:34 <sysrqb> blacklight-irc: i tihnk that's a topic for not this meeting :)
20:08:39 <ahf> cohosh: awesome!
20:08:48 <ahf> cohosh: hope arma1 will take a look too
20:08:56 <blacklight-irc> i already suspected something like that, anyway lets get back on topic  :)
20:09:01 <cohosh> blacklight-irc: if you have more questions we can discuss this in #tor-dev later
20:09:02 <ahf> gaba: i don't think we have anything there, nope
20:09:06 <gaba> ok
20:09:20 * anadahz is around
20:09:26 <ahf> let's look at the rest of s19 roadmap?
20:09:49 <gaba> yes
20:10:02 <gaba> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/nNhTJhoWUB8lSnW3hMbS42BRf2ArVCNvyeCX3zBYTzN
20:10:06 <gaba> filter by s19
20:10:32 <ahf> hmmm, there is also snowflake stuff in this roadmap though?
20:11:03 <gaba> yes, :/
20:11:12 <gaba> let's look at bridges and PTs cards
20:11:35 <gaba> for brdigedb we only have #29273
20:11:37 <gaba> by dgoulet
20:12:16 <ahf> yeah, i think he is in another meeting right now
20:12:20 <dgoulet> I'm here
20:12:27 <ahf> ah
20:12:50 <gaba> and for PTs we have #28925 by catalyst
20:12:59 <gaba> working on those?
20:14:27 <dgoulet> I actually have couple more BridgeDB ticket that are more urgent: #29481 and #29483  .. should be quick, as soon as I'm off that V thing
20:14:39 <ahf> nice
20:14:40 <dgoulet> but they really need to happen soon... consolidate BridgeDB a bit more
20:15:21 <gaba> oh, they are not in the roadmap. I will add them then
20:15:30 <dgoulet> yeah I can't edit that ban :S
20:15:34 <gaba> were they in the roadmap in brussels?
20:15:45 <dgoulet> gaba: nope
20:15:50 <gaba> oh
20:15:57 <dgoulet> gaba: I've created them after spending time assessing the situation
20:15:58 <gaba> ahh, you just opened it
20:16:05 <gaba> ok, it makes sense
20:16:17 <dgoulet> there are more thing I need to do also to stabilize that thing, it is hanging with duct tape on that production server :S
20:16:33 <gaba> do you think that will be wrap up between this week and next?
20:16:47 <gaba> or transfer knowledge to somebody else to continue
20:16:52 <gaba> what needs to be done sooner
20:16:59 <gaba> (to continue in march)
20:17:12 <dgoulet> I'm very hopeful either tomorrow or Monday :) ... they aren't long
20:17:21 <gaba> great!
20:17:30 <dgoulet> I'm still around for some days, no sign of anything on the kid side :P
20:17:43 <cohosh> dgoulet: i suppose i am the knowledge transfer person for when you are away
20:17:51 <dgoulet> cohosh: ok!
20:18:08 <blacklight-irc> I see that in the roadmap there as need to document how snowflake, maybe i could try and start with helping out there?
20:18:11 <cohosh> feel free to ping me when you feel like it
20:18:22 <catalyst> gaba: i'm hoping that my trial usage of pubsub will help with #28925
20:18:26 <blacklight-irc> *how snowflake is implemented
20:18:44 <sysrqb> cohosh: dgoulet i'm also here if you need backup :P
20:18:47 <ahf> blacklight-irc: i actually think we have what we want so far there. we were mostly curious of the broker implementation right now
20:19:02 <cohosh> sysrqb: awesome :)
20:19:07 <blacklight-irc> ah, i see
20:19:19 <gaba> ok catalyst
20:19:19 <ahf> blacklight-irc: see the Broker.markdown in the repo i linked to in the beginning on github
20:19:21 <blacklight-irc> ill look for something else i could do
20:19:51 <gaba> anything else people are working on that is not in the 'in progress' column?
20:20:00 <dcf1> I'm here now.
20:20:01 <blacklight-irc> the snowflake notes link?
20:20:04 <ahf> blacklight-irc: yep
20:20:09 <ahf> dcf1: o/
20:20:11 <cohosh> i suppose #29279 is somewhat in progress
20:20:22 <_hc> i'm here too
20:20:23 <ahf> yeah
20:20:26 <cohosh> i've just talked to some briar people about recent reachability testing they did
20:20:47 <cohosh> it was very helpful and i'm typing up some notes of our convo to share with tor-dev@
20:20:54 <antonela> cohosh, nice!
20:21:01 <cohosh> also about what kinds of things they'd like help with maintaining
20:21:16 <blacklight-irc> its where cohosh picked me up :p
20:21:59 <cohosh> yup :)
20:22:23 <blacklight-irc> i help out on the briar side with user testing
20:22:29 <ahf> cool!
20:22:33 <blacklight-irc> like the remote contacts feature for example
20:22:39 <cohosh> they had a private obfs4 bridge they were using to test reachability and after talkign with them they might also now run some bandwidth tests to see if the throttling problem is happening
20:23:18 <ahf> cool
20:23:24 <ahf> that would be very useful to get an ack/nack on
20:23:47 <ahf> should we go to the "needs help with" ?
20:23:51 <ahf> gaba:
20:24:06 <gaba> ywa
20:24:07 <gaba> yes
20:24:12 <_hc> I have something for that
20:24:12 <gaba> sorry i was looking at tickets
20:24:18 <ahf> i see _hc have something there
20:24:20 <blacklight-irc> a thing with always using the private bridge was also that there could be some unforseen affects on anonymity
20:24:22 <ahf> _hc: go!
20:24:27 <_hc> n8fr8 is on vacation this week, but he's been struggling with getting obfs4 running in Java/Android and could use some help.   uniq set up a obfs4 server and a python script client which works
20:24:37 <_hc> so we know the server is working
20:24:57 <ahf> a python script client?
20:25:00 <blacklight-irc> that it could potentionally make briars users stand out more, espcially for people monitoring traffic going to the tor network
20:25:10 <_hc> he says the java code connects, sends the SOCKS config stuff, then hangs never getting a response
20:25:12 <cohosh> blacklight-irc: good point, i saw those notes in the ticket. I think right now it is good for the information-gathering phase, and the next step is figuring out what to do in production
20:25:34 <_hc> ahf: it is a python script client via obfs4client
20:25:45 <dcf1> _hc: I think n8fr8 and I corresponded about this before, should I pick up that thread with him?
20:25:47 <blacklight-irc> i agree
20:25:50 <_hc> in both cases, we're using the Go code
20:25:56 <_hc> dcf1: yes please!
20:26:03 <dcf1> ok
20:26:06 <_hc> uniq: do you have any more info on it?
20:26:35 <sysrqb> it's a java obfs4 implementation?
20:26:54 <_hc> no, it is java code using the go implementation
20:26:56 <uniqx> what's the question?
20:27:33 <_hc> uniq: do you know more about the troubles n8fr8 is having?
20:27:36 <_hc> its a blocker for a bunch of other work we're doing, like a wikipedia PT prototype
20:28:29 <_hc> FYI, in all cases that I know about, we're using the standard Go obfs4 client/server
20:28:39 <uniqx> right, he's having issues getting obfs4 to initiate socks
20:30:03 <uniqx> If I recall correclty he gets obfs4 go api to open a port, but can not establish a socks5 connection with that socket
20:30:39 <ahf> is this via tor or in general?
20:31:03 <dcf1> If it still has to do with this code I might be able to diagnose it.
20:31:04 <dcf1> https://github.com/guardianproject/AndroidPluggableTransports/blob/master/APTDispatchLibrary-MeekObfs4-Full/src/main/java/info/pluggabletransports/dispatch/transports/MeekTransport.java
20:31:50 <dcf1> Or I guess rather https://github.com/guardianproject/AndroidPluggableTransports/blob/master/APTDispatchLibrary-MeekObfs4-Full/src/main/java/info/pluggabletransports/dispatch/transports/Obfs4Transport.java
20:33:31 <uniqx> yes I think that's what he's working on
20:33:56 <ahf> _hc: after the meeting i'd like to chat a bit about esni stuff with you, but we can do that in #tor-dev
20:33:57 <_hc> ahf: this is without Tor, the APT library is meant to allow apps to use PTs without Tor
20:34:02 <ahf> ah
20:34:08 <_hc> OK
20:36:05 <ahf> ok, it sounds like dcf1 might be able to help out a bit here?
20:36:32 <uniqx> dcf1: is there any way to get error messages from obfs4?
20:37:04 <dcf1> uniqx: obfs4proxy -enableLogging -logLevel DEBUG -unsafeLogging
20:37:25 <dcf1> uniqx: but I suspect that it problem is not with obfs4proxy, but with the SOCKS layer in goptlib.
20:37:56 <uniqx> right, that's what i used for debugging with obfs4proxy as client dispater
20:37:56 <dcf1> I'm not sure if obfs4proxy logs errors from goptlib, you'll have to check.
20:38:20 <dcf1> But I'll take a look and reply to my earlier thread with n8fr8.
20:38:23 <uniqx> are the logs accessible when using obfs4 go api?
20:38:55 <dcf1> uniqx: I'm not sure. The obfs4proxy has a common/log package, you'll have to see what it does.
20:39:41 <dcf1> But I've noticed that obfs4proxy doesn't do much loggin, even in DEBUG.
20:41:38 <ahf> should we continue this in #tor-dev afterwards and then move to the PT meeting discussion?
20:41:50 <dcf1> yeah sounds good
20:41:56 <ahf> great
20:42:04 <ahf> gaba: do you want to run this one?
20:42:49 <gaba> not sure who added PT meeting
20:42:53 <ahf> i did
20:42:57 <ahf> it was the item from last week?
20:43:09 <gaba> ahh, is about teh PT meeting for before the dev meeting?
20:43:12 <ahf> yes!
20:43:14 <gaba> I think we are ok with that one
20:43:16 <ahf> we didn't have time last week
20:43:19 <ahf> ahh, okay, fair enough
20:43:22 <ahf> so we have no more items now
20:43:27 <gaba> We are going to wait until we have some work done on PTs
20:43:30 <ahf> anybody else who have aything?
20:43:33 <cohosh> did we ever create those marionette tickets?
20:43:34 <gaba> some *more* work
20:43:35 <ahf> gaba: ah, sounds great
20:43:51 <cohosh> and if so, there's a march 1st deadline which means someone probably needs to own them this week
20:43:51 <ahf> cohosh: i don't think so, i should do that
20:43:58 <ahf> yep
20:44:09 <cohosh> so this is about setting up a marionette bridge?
20:44:12 <ahf> yep
20:44:29 <ahf> and running it/maintaining it while the application team does integration with marionette
20:44:32 <cohosh> i'd be happy to take that since i'm also looking at bridge set up for other things
20:44:32 <ahf> so they can test it out
20:44:41 <ahf> okay, if you are up for that that would be cool
20:44:48 <cohosh> although i've not run a bridge before so i might have some questions
20:44:54 <ahf> that's fine
20:44:57 <cohosh> okay great
20:44:58 <ahf> i can also help out
20:45:09 <ahf> cool! let's chat about that during the upcoming week
20:45:20 <cohosh> sounds good
20:45:27 <ahf> anything else? otherwise we can move discussions to #tor-dev
20:45:57 <gaba> sounds good, all those actions are covered then?
20:45:58 <sysrqb> ahf: who's testing that from app team?
20:46:12 <sysrqb> or is that not decided yet?
20:46:14 <ahf> sysrqb: i don't know. i think pili's plan is that the team begins in the end of march
20:46:23 <sysrqb> ah, kk
20:46:26 <ahf> we had a buffer untill medio march i believe
20:46:27 <sysrqb> thank
20:46:32 <ahf> because you guys were working on a release deadline i think
20:46:34 <sysrqb> :)
20:46:42 <sysrqb> always release deadlines :)
20:46:45 <antonela> jaja
20:46:47 <ahf> gaba: yep, when we have created the tickets
20:46:50 <ahf> sysrqb: :-D
20:46:58 <ahf> cool, i'm gonna close off the meeting. thanks all o/
20:47:01 <ahf> #endmeeting