18:01:14 <pili> #startmeeting tor-browser-release 06/05
18:01:14 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Jun  5 18:01:14 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:14 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:24 <pili> hi everyone
18:01:27 <pili> who's around?
18:01:46 <pili> here's the pad: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/OIjvRoCZXXO6fWK5AB5SLLNiXlXNNhV1Z4-fqVUkkJ5
18:02:15 * mcs is here
18:02:20 <sstevenson> i’m here :-)
18:02:23 <antonela> o/
18:02:26 <pili> hihi
18:02:36 <sysrqb> \o
18:02:46 * GeKo stumbles in
18:03:44 <pili> please add any requests or discussion points to the pad as you see fit :)
18:04:25 <pili> I'm going to get started though
18:04:46 <pili> we released 8.5.1 yesterday
18:05:11 <pili> are we planning to follow that up with a 9.0 alpha also?
18:05:32 <pili> I think I had one on my list for around the same time
18:05:49 <sysrqb> i believe it's planned for tomorrow/thursday
18:06:06 <GeKo> maybe
18:06:18 <GeKo> it could be delayed, though, as we don't have matching builds
18:06:37 <GeKo> that is non-matching desktop builds
18:06:46 <GeKo> the .apks are good
18:07:00 <GeKo> might mean we push out 9.0a2 next week
18:07:04 <sysrqb> weird. okay.
18:07:22 <GeKo> yeah, reproducible builds are fun
18:07:23 <pili> yeah, GeKo you're afk tomorrow and friday, right?
18:07:33 <GeKo> tomorrow, yes
18:07:44 <GeKo> but it seems i can't get away from the computer on friday
18:08:08 <pili> ah ok
18:08:29 <pili> well, I've moved it to next week just in case
18:10:09 <pili> anything else to discuss regarding the 9.0a2 build? :)
18:10:29 <sysrqb> i guess i have one thing
18:10:52 <sysrqb> i was chatting with antonela earlier about the recent private tabs change we made on android
18:11:00 <sysrqb> the more i think about it, this is a significant UX change
18:11:13 <sysrqb> i wonder if we shouldn't incude it in this next release
18:11:17 <sysrqb> *include
18:11:30 <sysrqb> especially now that we need a build2
18:11:53 <GeKo> fine with me
18:12:01 <GeKo> i mean we could try it out
18:12:14 <sysrqb> i'd like to try it :)
18:12:21 <GeKo> but i am not convinced yet we want to have it in the longer term
18:12:28 <GeKo> then let's keep it
18:12:39 <GeKo> but m aybe we do want
18:12:42 <GeKo> *maybe
18:12:55 <GeKo> and switch the desktop experience instead
18:13:08 <antonela> mmm
18:13:10 <sysrqb> okay. i'm a little worried because we still have 900k alpha users, and only 100k stable users
18:13:28 <GeKo> hm
18:13:31 <sysrqb> so, i'm not sure about large changes yet
18:13:40 <pili> oh wow, I didn't realise that
18:13:48 <GeKo> that's a good point
18:13:49 <sysrqb> i don't know how many are "active" users
18:13:51 <pili> sysrqb: that's people that haven't upgraded?
18:13:58 <sysrqb> but that is the number of installs
18:14:03 <pili> or is it because we have 2 apps?
18:14:08 <pili> (sorry, I should probably know this)
18:14:10 <sysrqb> pili: i'm not sure
18:14:18 <sysrqb> i don't know if google play will tell us
18:14:34 <GeKo> i guess it's because we don't have a good transition path yet
18:14:37 <sysrqb> but i assume most of those stable users have the alpha installed
18:14:44 <sysrqb> GeKo: right, that's my guess too
18:15:10 <GeKo> i'd still be fine trying it
18:15:35 <antonela> alpha to stable is one upgrade away, am i wrong?
18:15:43 <sysrqb> sadly no
18:15:49 <sysrqb> two separate apps
18:16:08 <sysrqb> like changing from alpha to stable on desktop
18:16:16 <sysrqb> (different reason, but same experience)
18:16:23 <antonela> i see
18:16:46 <antonela> we should fix this flow
18:16:51 <antonela> we worked on orbot but not on this
18:17:02 <sysrqb> heh. yeah. GeKo and I chatted about this a little
18:17:11 <antonela> i mean, we should be explicit that the alpha channel is for early testing
18:17:19 <antonela> but we recommend stable for regular users
18:17:20 <sysrqb> we have a ticket, needing your help
18:17:23 <sysrqb> yeah
18:17:30 <antonela> i bet
18:17:32 <antonela> :)
18:17:33 <sysrqb> we thin most people just installed alpha because orfox was old
18:17:38 <sysrqb> *think
18:17:41 <GeKo> yes
18:17:50 <antonela> could you remind me the ticket number?
18:18:03 <antonela> maybe we can think about it for next [next] release + private tab
18:18:04 <sysrqb> we're thinking about adding something similar on the alpha release like your Orfox design
18:18:07 <GeKo> and while making the alpha more explicit a dev edition is a good ieda
18:18:19 <GeKo> i doubt it will have much in our current situation
18:18:24 <GeKo> s/have/help/
18:19:04 <sysrqb> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/30540
18:19:35 <antonela> oki, tagged
18:19:40 <sysrqb> :)
18:19:44 <pili> thanks antonela
18:20:34 <antonela> do we have news from guardian folks? did they updated orfox?
18:20:37 <sysrqb> GeKo: so, should we wait until the next release for this change?
18:20:42 <sysrqb> antonela: no, not yet
18:21:01 <antonela> maybe we can align the stars and make all in together
18:21:21 <GeKo> which change? the private tab one?
18:21:41 <sysrqb> yeah
18:21:55 <pili> for 9.0a2?
18:21:57 <pili> or a3?
18:22:10 <sysrqb> a3
18:22:27 <sysrqb> i'm not sure if we should releaes the current semi-baked version
18:22:32 <sysrqb> which is better than the current thing
18:22:36 <sysrqb> but it has a new UX
18:22:38 <pili> well, it is alpha...
18:22:41 <pili> dunno :)
18:22:58 <GeKo> i still fine shipping it but don't feel strongly
18:23:03 <sysrqb> or we wait until we solve the curren UI/UX questions and then release it in the follow up release
18:23:04 <GeKo> sysrqb: your call :)
18:23:19 <sysrqb> ha. okay.
18:23:52 <GeKo> i think it's okay either way
18:23:55 <sysrqb> if no one has a strong opinion about it, then i guess we can keep it and see how it goe
18:24:02 <sysrqb> *goes
18:24:14 <antonela> june 10 is next week
18:24:26 <antonela> if you are focusing on it sysrqb, we can iterate what you have right now
18:24:27 <pili> I was being pessimistic
18:24:33 <pili> (re: june 10)
18:24:34 <antonela> i just need today/tomorrow to review it
18:25:01 <GeKo> well we need to think about what we want firsst
18:25:14 <GeKo> for mobile
18:25:23 <GeKo> which i am not sure about
18:25:46 <GeKo> as i said maybe we actually want to switch desktop users
18:26:09 <GeKo> what got me thinking was the old tickets were users want to have a clear visible difference
18:26:14 <GeKo> between their tor browser and normal firefox
18:26:23 <antonela> do you prefer to have a consistent "no-private-tab" experience across tba and desktop?
18:26:33 <GeKo> because they were mixing them up
18:27:14 <GeKo> yes, i think if there are no android-y reasons against it then i'd llike to have a similar experience across platforms
18:27:20 <GeKo> basically what mozilla is doing
18:27:33 <antonela> GeKo, got it, we could achieve it
18:27:58 <GeKo> (modulo the platform inherent limitations, like gtk vs. cocoa etc.)
18:29:09 <mcs> “Having a clear visibile difference btw regular Firefox and Tor Browser” (or not) is something we would need to decide before we can get very far.
18:29:27 <sysrqb> okay, so let's continue with the current plan, and we can decide where we should go from here over the next few weeks (especially with feedback from other peopl)
18:29:29 <GeKo> that, too
18:29:30 <mcs> But Android + desktop consistency makes 100% sense
18:29:56 <GeKo> the bug i had inm ind is kind of orthogonal
18:30:08 <GeKo> but as i said it got me thinking :)
18:31:08 <GeKo> sysrqb: sounds good
18:32:06 <pili> so, to clarify current plan = ? :)
18:34:09 <GeKo> fwiw: #10399 is the ticket i've been talking about
18:34:19 <GeKo> i think the current plan is
18:34:36 <GeKo> we ship the thing sysrqb came up with in the next alpha
18:35:02 <GeKo> and work in parallel to provide a similar experience across all platforms
18:35:11 <pili> next alpha = 9.0a2 ?
18:35:16 <GeKo> yes
18:35:22 <pili> ok, great :)
18:35:25 <GeKo> the one we need to rebuild
18:35:28 <pili> yup
18:35:29 <sysrqb> ah, yes, that. and then we can iterate on it based on feedback and other decisions
18:35:36 <pili> sounds good to me
18:35:45 <pili> anything else on this or shall we move on?
18:35:55 <sysrqb> i think we can move on :)
18:36:09 <antonela> cool
18:36:09 <pili> ok, I'm moving on to requests then ;)
18:36:39 <pili> there's a thai localization sprint happen-ing/-ed(?) recently
18:37:10 <emmapeel> yes!
18:37:12 <pili> and emmapeel wanted to request to get a Thai build for the next alpha
18:37:15 <emmapeel> thas my cue
18:37:24 <pili> which I guess would be 9.0a3 again
18:37:37 <pili> (well, not again)
18:38:01 <emmapeel> there is also Lithuanian, Macedonian, Malay ready for alpha
18:38:36 <emmapeel> but i am not sure what happened with Macedonian and I want to know if I can help to fix the problem that made Macedonian not able to have an alpha on last release
18:38:53 <GeKo> emmapeel: file a child ticket for the alpha locale inclusion bug?
18:39:12 <GeKo> the problem is that there is no macedonian mobile firefox version
18:39:26 <emmapeel> i could ask the translators to translate firefox
18:39:30 <GeKo> but our code assumes that all locales are available on all platforms
18:39:43 <GeKo> well, yes, but they need to ship the locale first themselves
18:39:50 <GeKo> so this would take a while
18:39:57 <emmapeel> yes, indeed
18:40:04 <GeKo> i am not happy with my first pacth idea
18:40:15 <GeKo> and am not happy with boklm's suggestion either
18:40:26 <GeKo> so i need to come up with a better one which takes time
18:40:33 <GeKo> we should have this for 9.0a3 though
18:42:00 <emmapeel> i am not sure what is boklm suggestion but i will file that child ticket, and a new ticket for Lithuanian, Malay and Thai
18:42:26 <emmapeel> child ticket of #30468
18:42:30 <pili> thanks emmapeel ±
18:42:31 <pili> !
18:43:13 <pili> anything else on this?
18:43:39 <GeKo> emmapeel: thanks. and #29935 is the parent one (that needs new children) :)
18:44:18 <emmapeel> ok!
18:44:21 <emmapeel> thanks!
18:45:29 <pili> ok, let's move on to the last item if we're good?
18:45:58 <emmapeel> im good yeah
18:46:01 <pili> cool
18:46:24 <pili> so the last item is just a reminder that we want to ship a fundraising banner with the next security release
18:46:37 <pili> we have plenty of time but I just want to keep it in people's minds
18:47:05 <sstevenson> the timing doesn’t match the bug smash campaign that we’ll do in august
18:47:08 <pili> I think antonela is already aware of this
18:47:18 <pili> hmm, ok
18:47:21 <pili> let me see then
18:47:21 <sstevenson> so we need to brainstorm what message we want to use here
18:47:42 <sstevenson> pili: i can add it to the agenda of the next grants meeting
18:47:52 <antonela> i commented at the ticket about the implementation
18:47:55 <pili> there should be another release beginning of september at least
18:48:09 <pili> which doesn't help either actually
18:48:20 <antonela> #30577
18:48:41 <sstevenson> i think we should promote monthly giving and include the patch image
18:49:01 <sstevenson> then take a break in september and plan for banners for the YE campaign starting at the end of october
18:49:18 <pili> ok, so the banner will go on in July and come off in september?
18:49:53 <sstevenson> i think that will work, so people don’t get tired of seeing banners
18:50:09 <GeKo> we can try to ship releases in the meantime if needede
18:50:23 <GeKo> so we are not strictly bound to mozilla's schedule
18:50:28 <GeKo> but
18:50:33 <GeKo> there is all the esr work going on
18:50:36 <pili> yup
18:50:46 <GeKo> and there is vacation time in july adnd august
18:50:48 <GeKo> *and
18:50:50 <pili> I think let's stick to this if it's doable from fundraising perspective
18:51:06 <GeKo> so we should be careful with extra work we add to our plates
18:51:12 <pili> for all the reason's GeKo mentioned :)
18:51:35 <sstevenson> it is doable from our perspective - it is more of a drain on the browser team and localization folks and antonela :-)
18:51:37 <pili> I think 2 months is long enough to make it worth the effort and not so long that people get sick of seeing it
18:52:10 <sstevenson> +1
18:53:37 <pili> ok, any objections? :)
18:54:17 <antonela> nope
18:54:25 <pili> sounds like a plan, I'll update the ticket :)
18:55:11 <sstevenson> thanks!
18:55:24 <pili> I'll take a note of the EOY campaign one for end of october also
18:55:46 <pili> that could be for the 9.0 stable actually
18:56:38 <pili> ok, any other comments on Fundraising banners or any other items?
18:58:09 <pili> ok, I think we are done then
18:58:13 <pili> thanks everyone!
18:58:17 <pili> #endmeeting