18:01:06 <pili> #startmeeting tor-browser-release 10/09 18:01:06 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Oct 9 18:01:06 2019 UTC. The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:06 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:22 <sysrqb> o/ 18:01:31 <pili> here's the pad: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/YOY76uEI1rq72j7c3cYgd63BNrLs-WPqiyXMDtNBlS7 18:01:32 <pili> please add any discussion points 18:02:54 <pili> and requests :) 18:04:30 <sysrqb> maybe it'll be a short meeting :) 18:04:47 <pili> that's ok ;) 18:05:07 * intrigeri vaguely lurking. 18:05:09 <pili> ok, let's give a couple more minutes 18:05:11 <antonela> i think all ux-team labeled tickets are done on my side 18:05:20 <antonela> do we have emmapeel nearby? 18:05:20 <sysrqb> intrigeri: o/ 18:05:25 <antonela> intrigeri: hey! 18:05:30 <intrigeri> hi everyone :) 18:05:31 <pili> although I think most are done writing notes 18:05:32 <pili> hi intrigeri, anyone else around? :) 18:05:57 <sysrqb> i think we should talk about the second discussion point with GeKo 18:06:11 <intrigeri> fwiw, Tails 4.0~rc1 will be released on Friday, including 9.0a7. 18:06:23 <GeKo> nice 18:06:24 <sysrqb> awesome! 18:06:25 <antonela> point #1 - i dont have blockers, im done 18:06:26 <antonela> intrigeri: niiice 18:06:30 <GeKo> do you plan a rc2? 18:06:35 <GeKo> with 9.0a8 18:07:01 <antonela> we will have moaaar stuff intrigeri :) 18:07:26 <intrigeri> GeKo: nope, won't have capacity and even if we had, it would give us very little time to gather actionable feedback for you to fix stuff 18:07:39 <GeKo> fair enough 18:08:01 <GeKo> fwiw i am inclined to look at #32019 to fix things for you 18:08:05 <GeKo> and rustybird 18:08:13 <GeKo> but it might need to wait for the weekend 18:09:33 <emmapeel> o/ 18:09:59 <sysrqb> \o 18:10:10 <pili> ok 18:10:23 <intrigeri> GeKo: ♥ 18:10:30 <pili> hi emmapeel! are you good with all the updated strings? 18:10:38 <pili> as in, do you know where to get them? 18:10:53 <pili> I think there was a question for brade about which branch to use? 18:11:04 <emmapeel> i dont understand if i have to use the file brade pushed to her repo, or i have to wait until it is on the main repo 18:11:08 <GeKo> i plan to merge the strings for the onbording shortly 18:11:09 <pili> maybe mcs knows though since it seems brade is not here 18:11:32 <pili> ah ok 18:11:33 <pili> so then we can use the ones on the main repo 18:11:35 <emmapeel> https://gitweb.torproject.org/user/brade/torbutton.git/tree/chrome/locale/en-US/browserOnboarding.properties?h=bug31768-01&id=c9beb4afcfa31914f699059e86f9a91a8c51f5b8 <- this is the file 18:12:03 <emmapeel> ah ok then i will wait so i dont need to unhook transifex 18:12:18 <pili> any other blockers from anyone? 18:12:44 <pili> as in, does anyone have any blockers for the next few releases that someone else can help with? 18:13:02 <sysrqb> lack of time :) 18:13:21 <antonela> haha 18:13:23 <sysrqb> but i think eeryone has that problem 18:13:29 <sysrqb> *everyone 18:13:51 <antonela> when is the a8 release planned? 18:13:57 <antonela> next week? 18:13:58 <pili> 14th 18:14:01 <pili> October 18:14:03 <pili> or 15th 18:14:04 <antonela> then stable? the 22th? 18:14:21 <antonela> so we have the 3rd week of this month for running QA 18:15:08 <GeKo> yes to 22nd 18:16:27 <pili> ok 18:16:32 <pili> so no blockers? ;) 18:16:39 <pili> shall we move on? 18:17:04 <sysrqb> sounds good for me 18:17:05 <pili> someone added a discussion point about notarization for macos? 18:17:50 <GeKo> yes, i 18:18:06 <GeKo> so, it seems we gambled right so far 18:18:28 <GeKo> in that stable installations already been on 10.14 or earlier 18:18:53 <GeKo> and now upgraded to a 10.15 environment don't break because they are not correctly signed 18:19:07 <GeKo> (that was not really clear :) ) 18:19:25 <GeKo> so, now the questions is what to do for the new installations 18:19:55 <GeKo> because i think tor browser stable freshly downloaded onto a 10.15 system won't run right now 18:20:02 <GeKo> as it is not properly notarized 18:20:10 <GeKo> we have a couple of options 18:20:23 <antonela> which are them? 18:20:29 <GeKo> 1) we put out a release for macos only out asap 18:20:36 <GeKo> that would be 8.5.7 18:20:51 <GeKo> b) we resign 8.5.6 we currently have and pretend it's still 8.5.6 18:21:03 <GeKo> s/b)/2)/ 18:21:21 <GeKo> 3) we gamble further hoping that not too many users are affected 18:21:32 <GeKo> and don't make a new release given that 9.0 is imminent 18:21:41 <pili> GeKo: do you want me to try whether "tor browser stable freshly downloaded onto a 10.15 system won't run" 18:21:48 <pili> I haven't upgraded yet, but I could 18:21:58 <pili> I guess I would need to delete Tor Browser first 18:22:03 <GeKo> we could try to mitigate that by pointing users to the alpha meanwhile 18:22:11 <GeKo> pili: you could try that out 18:22:18 <pili> ok, I'll do that tomorrow probably 18:22:20 <GeKo> no need for deleting 18:22:28 <pili> I think I'm on the alpha right now though 18:22:30 <GeKo> just dreag it to your desktop 18:22:35 <GeKo> *drag 18:22:42 <GeKo> it stays there pretty self-containd 18:22:48 <GeKo> *self-contained 18:22:57 <pili> ok 18:22:58 <sysrqb> can we just ask mike? 18:23:09 <GeKo> we could! 18:23:14 <sysrqb> (given that he already upgraded?) 18:23:26 <GeKo> let me do that later on, that's a good idea 18:23:30 * antonela didn't upgrade yet 18:23:35 <sysrqb> pili, you can upgrade, too, and test this :) 18:23:40 <pili> ok 18:23:42 <sysrqb> but maybe there isn't an immediate need 18:23:53 <GeKo> but let's assume i am right 18:23:58 <pili> yeah, I'll see how yolo I feel about upgrading tonight ;) 18:24:03 <GeKo> i don't like 2) 18:24:08 <sysrqb> GeKo: do we still need the backported patches? 18:24:45 <pili> are we definitely able to notarize 8.5 properly? 18:24:53 <pili> sorry, I'm missing this piece of info 18:24:56 <GeKo> well, i am surprised that it is running on mike's machine without the crash bugfix 18:25:07 <pili> and if we are, why wouldn't we get out a new release? time constraints? 18:25:08 <GeKo> yes, we are 18:25:19 <GeKo> yes, time constraints 18:25:24 <GeKo> and it is not well tested 18:25:31 <pili> ok 18:25:45 <GeKo> there are some patches we seem we _can_ omit as apple relaxed their signing constraints a bit 18:25:54 <GeKo> but who knows what else would be missing 18:26:02 <pili> have we had any reports yet about 8.5.6 not working? 18:26:11 <GeKo> so there is some risk involved but it should be not that much 18:26:14 <GeKo> not yet 18:26:25 <sysrqb> there was a tweet i need to look at 18:26:28 <sysrqb> one sec, i'll find it 18:26:30 <GeKo> at least not in channels i am monitoring 18:26:31 <pili> I wonder if we can wait until after 9.0 is out 18:26:55 <GeKo> what do you mean with "after"? 18:27:08 <GeKo> the alpha is properly notarized and working 18:27:19 <GeKo> (and thus 9.0 will be) 18:27:24 <sysrqb> https://twitter.com/MCReim/status/1181559209369972736 18:27:33 <sysrqb> "Hey @torproject your „updater“ does not run under macOS Catalina." 18:27:49 <pili> right, but if people want to stay on 8.5 for whatever reason, soon after the 22nd October, we release 8.5.7 for people 18:28:00 <sysrqb> i don't have any more information, but i suspect they are using Tor Browser Stable 18:28:11 <pili> depends how unacceptable it is for people who have upgraded to not be able to use Tor Browser 8.5... 18:28:34 <pili> basically, I'm reasoning through option 3 18:28:36 <GeKo> theer won't be an 8.5 release after 22nd 18:28:37 <sysrqb> i also wonder if "updater does not run" means Tor Browser won't update? 18:28:46 <GeKo> yeah 18:28:53 <GeKo> that's part of the problem 18:29:06 <pili> ok, so we either do a release for 8.5 now or we don't do it at all 18:29:19 <boklm> like they were using 8.5.5 and are updating to 8.5.6? 18:29:21 <GeKo> yes 18:30:19 <GeKo> boklm: hard to say. but it is not unconceiable that updating is broken because catalina does not let the updater run anymore 18:30:36 <GeKo> but in that case a rushed 8.5.7 won't help 18:30:43 <sysrqb> right :/ 18:31:21 <sysrqb> so we should find out more details about whether the updater works 18:31:32 <sysrqb> but this doesn't matter for new installations 18:31:49 <pili> ok, so maybe I want to download 8.5.5 and updgrade 18:31:50 <GeKo> well and for getting 8.5.7 out fast either 18:31:59 <pili> then test what happens with the updater? 18:32:03 <pili> (if we want to test this) 18:32:19 <GeKo> pili: you could test a bunch of things, yes :) 18:32:23 <pili> what would be most useful? 18:32:40 <GeKo> well, first for the question whether to release or not 18:33:04 <GeKo> it's useful to know whether new installations are affected as we think they are 18:33:31 <pili> given what I've read so far I would say not to release 18:33:32 <pili> but then I'm not affected :) 18:33:33 <pili> so it's easy for me to say 18:33:46 <pili> I think we have workarounds in place that are good enough 18:33:53 <GeKo> then it's interesting to check whether the updater works 18:34:10 <GeKo> from arady installed versions 18:34:16 <GeKo> *already 18:34:19 <pili> right 18:34:32 <GeKo> (that is those that are not notarized) 18:34:56 <GeKo> so you could put a 8.5.5 and a 8.5.6 on your desktop before upgrading 18:34:59 <GeKo> to 10.15 18:35:06 <GeKo> just to check different scenarios 18:35:17 <GeKo> with the former upgrde to 8.5.6 18:35:43 <GeKo> with the latter (and maybe the former is enough for that) whether catalina lets the updater.app run at all 18:35:58 <GeKo> because that's what i actually suspect from reading the tweet 18:36:15 <GeKo> one could work around that i think but it's some manual process 18:36:20 <boklm> given that 8.5.6 was released one month ago, I'm wondering how much people are still on 8.5.5 18:36:39 <GeKo> i am not worried about those folks 18:36:55 <boklm> ah, for the 8.5.6 -> 9.0 update 18:37:00 <GeKo> yes 18:37:09 <boklm> or 8.5.6 -> 8.5.7 18:37:13 <GeKo> yes 18:37:32 <pili> ok 18:37:33 <pili> hmm 18:37:45 <GeKo> pili: so, yes yolo mode sonuds good for upgrading 18:37:48 <pili> but we won't find out about 8.5.6 -> 9.0 until we release 18:37:53 <pili> on the 22nd 18:38:00 <GeKo> i can give you a bunch of mine i have enough yolo 18:38:07 <pili> ;P 18:38:20 <pili> ok, I can get that going after this meeting 18:38:27 <pili> not planning on doing any more work tonight... :P 18:38:31 <GeKo> well it depends on what the updater says 18:38:48 <GeKo> because the twitter fellow is complaining that they can't upgrade to 8.5.6 18:39:01 <GeKo> because catalina won't let that one run 18:39:05 <GeKo> as it is not signed 18:39:14 <GeKo> in that case that's cool with 9.0 18:39:57 <GeKo> but if they are complaining that the updater isn't even allowed to run that's bad news 18:40:09 <pili> wait, wasn't 8.5.6 android only? 18:40:16 <GeKo> indeed 18:40:31 <GeKo> then i meant 8.5.4 and 8.5.5 when i said 8.5.5 and 8.5.6 18:40:43 <pili> phew, I thought I was going crazy :D 18:41:07 <pili> I just downloaded the latest mac from our download page and got confused about why I was getting 8.5.5 as the latest :) 18:41:17 <GeKo> hehe, sorry 18:41:32 <pili> got it 18:42:50 <GeKo> okay, i guess we postpone a decision here 18:43:02 <GeKo> until we get further insight into the situation 18:43:31 <pili> hmm, except I can't get 8.5.4 from https://dist.torproject.org/torbrowser/ ... 18:43:32 <pili> ugh 18:43:36 <GeKo> the overall timing is bad, but yeah 18:43:55 <GeKo> archive.torproject.org/tor-package-archive/torbrowser/8.5.4 18:44:03 <mcs> The updater bug might be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1556733 (depends on the symptoms I suppose). 18:44:04 <GeKo> + https:// infront should help 18:44:09 <pili> thanks! 18:44:19 <GeKo> mcs: indeed! 18:44:38 <GeKo> but that means this twitter person is running an older tor browser 18:45:03 <pili> ok, I guess we'll know more tomorrow 18:45:12 <sysrqb> i contacted the person, so hopefully we'll get more details soon 18:46:49 <GeKo> thanks 18:47:20 <sysrqb> but i agree we should hold off on the release until we know more 18:48:35 <sysrqb> (i don't have anything else to add) 18:49:00 <pili> ok 18:49:05 <pili> anything else on this? 18:49:31 <pili> or the next few releases? 18:49:32 <pili> I don't see anything else on the pad :) 18:51:32 <sysrqb> (nope) 18:51:54 <pili> ok 18:51:58 <pili> let's leave it there then :) 18:52:01 <pili> thanks everyone! 18:52:04 <pili> #endmeeting