18:01:06 <pili> #startmeeting tor-browser-release 10/09
18:01:06 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Oct  9 18:01:06 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:06 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:22 <sysrqb> o/
18:01:31 <pili> here's the pad: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/YOY76uEI1rq72j7c3cYgd63BNrLs-WPqiyXMDtNBlS7
18:01:32 <pili> please add any discussion points
18:02:54 <pili> and requests :)
18:04:30 <sysrqb> maybe it'll be a short meeting :)
18:04:47 <pili> that's ok ;)
18:05:07 * intrigeri vaguely lurking.
18:05:09 <pili> ok, let's give a couple more minutes
18:05:11 <antonela> i think all ux-team labeled tickets are done on my side
18:05:20 <antonela> do we have emmapeel nearby?
18:05:20 <sysrqb> intrigeri: o/
18:05:25 <antonela> intrigeri: hey!
18:05:30 <intrigeri> hi everyone :)
18:05:31 <pili> although I think most are done writing notes
18:05:32 <pili> hi intrigeri, anyone else around? :)
18:05:57 <sysrqb> i think we should talk about the second discussion point with GeKo
18:06:11 <intrigeri> fwiw, Tails 4.0~rc1 will be released on Friday, including 9.0a7.
18:06:23 <GeKo> nice
18:06:24 <sysrqb> awesome!
18:06:25 <antonela> point #1 - i dont have blockers, im done
18:06:26 <antonela> intrigeri: niiice
18:06:30 <GeKo> do you plan a rc2?
18:06:35 <GeKo> with 9.0a8
18:07:01 <antonela> we will have moaaar stuff intrigeri :)
18:07:26 <intrigeri> GeKo: nope, won't have capacity and even if we had, it would give us very little time to gather actionable feedback for you to fix stuff
18:07:39 <GeKo> fair enough
18:08:01 <GeKo> fwiw i am inclined to look at #32019 to fix things for you
18:08:05 <GeKo> and rustybird
18:08:13 <GeKo> but it might need to wait for the weekend
18:09:33 <emmapeel> o/
18:09:59 <sysrqb> \o
18:10:10 <pili> ok
18:10:23 <intrigeri> GeKo: ♥
18:10:30 <pili> hi emmapeel! are you good with all the updated strings?
18:10:38 <pili> as in, do you know where to get them?
18:10:53 <pili> I think there was a question for brade about which branch to use?
18:11:04 <emmapeel> i dont understand if i have to use the file brade pushed to her repo, or i have to wait until it is on the main repo
18:11:08 <GeKo> i plan to merge the strings for the onbording shortly
18:11:09 <pili> maybe mcs knows though since it seems brade is not here
18:11:32 <pili> ah ok
18:11:33 <pili> so then we can use the ones on the main repo
18:11:35 <emmapeel> https://gitweb.torproject.org/user/brade/torbutton.git/tree/chrome/locale/en-US/browserOnboarding.properties?h=bug31768-01&id=c9beb4afcfa31914f699059e86f9a91a8c51f5b8 <- this is the file
18:12:03 <emmapeel> ah ok then i will wait so i dont need to unhook transifex
18:12:18 <pili> any other blockers from anyone?
18:12:44 <pili> as in, does anyone have any blockers for the next few releases that someone else can help with?
18:13:02 <sysrqb> lack of time :)
18:13:21 <antonela> haha
18:13:23 <sysrqb> but i think eeryone has that problem
18:13:29 <sysrqb> *everyone
18:13:51 <antonela> when is the a8 release planned?
18:13:57 <antonela> next week?
18:13:58 <pili> 14th
18:14:01 <pili> October
18:14:03 <pili> or 15th
18:14:04 <antonela> then stable? the 22th?
18:14:21 <antonela> so we have the 3rd week of this month for running QA
18:15:08 <GeKo> yes to 22nd
18:16:27 <pili> ok
18:16:32 <pili> so no blockers? ;)
18:16:39 <pili> shall we move on?
18:17:04 <sysrqb> sounds good for me
18:17:05 <pili> someone added a discussion point about notarization for macos?
18:17:50 <GeKo> yes, i
18:18:06 <GeKo> so, it seems we gambled right so far
18:18:28 <GeKo> in that stable installations already been on 10.14 or earlier
18:18:53 <GeKo> and now upgraded to a 10.15 environment don't break because they are not correctly signed
18:19:07 <GeKo> (that was not really clear :) )
18:19:25 <GeKo> so, now the questions is what to do for the new installations
18:19:55 <GeKo> because i think tor browser stable freshly downloaded onto a 10.15 system won't run right now
18:20:02 <GeKo> as it is not properly notarized
18:20:10 <GeKo> we have a couple of options
18:20:23 <antonela> which are them?
18:20:29 <GeKo> 1) we put out a release for macos only out asap
18:20:36 <GeKo> that would be 8.5.7
18:20:51 <GeKo> b) we resign 8.5.6 we currently have and pretend it's still 8.5.6
18:21:03 <GeKo> s/b)/2)/
18:21:21 <GeKo> 3) we gamble further hoping that not too many users are affected
18:21:32 <GeKo> and don't make a new release given that 9.0 is imminent
18:21:41 <pili> GeKo: do you want me to try whether "tor browser stable freshly downloaded onto a 10.15 system won't run"
18:21:48 <pili> I haven't upgraded yet, but I could
18:21:58 <pili> I guess I would need to delete Tor Browser first
18:22:03 <GeKo> we could try to mitigate that by pointing users to the alpha meanwhile
18:22:11 <GeKo> pili: you could try that out
18:22:18 <pili> ok, I'll do that tomorrow probably
18:22:20 <GeKo> no need for deleting
18:22:28 <pili> I think I'm on the alpha right now though
18:22:30 <GeKo> just dreag it to your desktop
18:22:35 <GeKo> *drag
18:22:42 <GeKo> it stays there pretty self-containd
18:22:48 <GeKo> *self-contained
18:22:57 <pili> ok
18:22:58 <sysrqb> can we just ask mike?
18:23:09 <GeKo> we could!
18:23:14 <sysrqb> (given that he already upgraded?)
18:23:26 <GeKo> let me do that later on, that's a good idea
18:23:30 * antonela didn't upgrade yet
18:23:35 <sysrqb> pili, you can upgrade, too, and test this :)
18:23:40 <pili> ok
18:23:42 <sysrqb> but maybe there isn't an immediate need
18:23:53 <GeKo> but let's assume i am right
18:23:58 <pili> yeah, I'll see how yolo I feel about upgrading tonight ;)
18:24:03 <GeKo> i don't like 2)
18:24:08 <sysrqb> GeKo: do we still need the backported patches?
18:24:45 <pili> are we definitely able to notarize 8.5 properly?
18:24:53 <pili> sorry, I'm missing this piece of info
18:24:56 <GeKo> well, i am surprised that it is running on mike's machine without the crash bugfix
18:25:07 <pili> and if we are, why wouldn't we get out a new release? time constraints?
18:25:08 <GeKo> yes, we are
18:25:19 <GeKo> yes, time constraints
18:25:24 <GeKo> and it is not well tested
18:25:31 <pili> ok
18:25:45 <GeKo> there are some patches we seem we _can_ omit as apple relaxed their signing constraints a bit
18:25:54 <GeKo> but who knows what else would be missing
18:26:02 <pili> have we had any reports yet about 8.5.6 not working?
18:26:11 <GeKo> so there is some risk involved but it should be not that much
18:26:14 <GeKo> not yet
18:26:25 <sysrqb> there was a tweet i need to look at
18:26:28 <sysrqb> one sec, i'll find it
18:26:30 <GeKo> at least not in channels i am monitoring
18:26:31 <pili> I wonder if we can wait until after 9.0 is out
18:26:55 <GeKo> what do you mean with "after"?
18:27:08 <GeKo> the alpha is properly notarized and working
18:27:19 <GeKo> (and thus 9.0 will be)
18:27:24 <sysrqb> https://twitter.com/MCReim/status/1181559209369972736
18:27:33 <sysrqb> "Hey @torproject your „updater“ does not run under macOS Catalina."
18:27:49 <pili> right, but if people want to stay on 8.5 for whatever reason, soon after the 22nd October, we release 8.5.7 for people
18:28:00 <sysrqb> i don't have any more information, but i suspect they are using Tor Browser Stable
18:28:11 <pili> depends how unacceptable it is for people who have upgraded to not be able to use Tor Browser 8.5...
18:28:34 <pili> basically, I'm reasoning through option 3
18:28:36 <GeKo> theer won't be an 8.5 release after 22nd
18:28:37 <sysrqb> i also wonder if "updater does not run" means Tor Browser won't update?
18:28:46 <GeKo> yeah
18:28:53 <GeKo> that's part of the problem
18:29:06 <pili> ok, so we either do a release for 8.5 now or we don't do it at all
18:29:19 <boklm> like they were using 8.5.5 and are updating to 8.5.6?
18:29:21 <GeKo> yes
18:30:19 <GeKo> boklm: hard to say. but it is not unconceiable that updating is broken because catalina does not let the updater run anymore
18:30:36 <GeKo> but in that case a rushed 8.5.7 won't help
18:30:43 <sysrqb> right :/
18:31:21 <sysrqb> so we should find out more details about whether the updater works
18:31:32 <sysrqb> but this doesn't matter for new installations
18:31:49 <pili> ok, so maybe I want to download 8.5.5 and updgrade
18:31:50 <GeKo> well and for getting 8.5.7 out fast either
18:31:59 <pili> then test what happens with the updater?
18:32:03 <pili> (if we want to test this)
18:32:19 <GeKo> pili: you could test a bunch of things, yes :)
18:32:23 <pili> what would be most useful?
18:32:40 <GeKo> well, first for the question whether to release or not
18:33:04 <GeKo> it's useful to know whether new installations are affected as we think they are
18:33:31 <pili> given what I've read so far I would say not to release
18:33:32 <pili> but then I'm not affected :)
18:33:33 <pili> so it's easy for me to say
18:33:46 <pili> I think we have workarounds in place that are good enough
18:33:53 <GeKo> then it's interesting to check whether the updater works
18:34:10 <GeKo> from arady installed versions
18:34:16 <GeKo> *already
18:34:19 <pili> right
18:34:32 <GeKo> (that is those that are not notarized)
18:34:56 <GeKo> so you could put a 8.5.5 and a 8.5.6 on your desktop before upgrading
18:34:59 <GeKo> to 10.15
18:35:06 <GeKo> just to check different scenarios
18:35:17 <GeKo> with the former upgrde to 8.5.6
18:35:43 <GeKo> with the latter (and maybe the former is enough for that) whether catalina lets the updater.app run at all
18:35:58 <GeKo> because that's what i actually suspect from reading the tweet
18:36:15 <GeKo> one could work around that i think but it's some manual process
18:36:20 <boklm> given that 8.5.6 was released one month ago, I'm wondering how much people are still on 8.5.5
18:36:39 <GeKo> i am not worried about those folks
18:36:55 <boklm> ah, for the 8.5.6 -> 9.0 update
18:37:00 <GeKo> yes
18:37:09 <boklm> or 8.5.6 -> 8.5.7
18:37:13 <GeKo> yes
18:37:32 <pili> ok
18:37:33 <pili> hmm
18:37:45 <GeKo> pili: so, yes yolo mode sonuds good for upgrading
18:37:48 <pili> but we won't find out about 8.5.6 -> 9.0 until we release
18:37:53 <pili> on the 22nd
18:38:00 <GeKo> i can give you a bunch of mine i have enough yolo
18:38:07 <pili> ;P
18:38:20 <pili> ok, I can get that going after this meeting
18:38:27 <pili> not planning on doing any more work tonight... :P
18:38:31 <GeKo> well it depends on what the updater says
18:38:48 <GeKo> because the twitter fellow is complaining that they can't upgrade to 8.5.6
18:39:01 <GeKo> because catalina won't let that one run
18:39:05 <GeKo> as it is not signed
18:39:14 <GeKo> in that case that's cool with 9.0
18:39:57 <GeKo> but if they are complaining that the updater isn't even allowed to run that's bad news
18:40:09 <pili> wait, wasn't 8.5.6 android only?
18:40:16 <GeKo> indeed
18:40:31 <GeKo> then i meant 8.5.4 and 8.5.5 when i said 8.5.5 and 8.5.6
18:40:43 <pili> phew, I thought I was going crazy :D
18:41:07 <pili> I just downloaded the latest mac from our download page and got confused about why I was getting 8.5.5 as the latest :)
18:41:17 <GeKo> hehe, sorry
18:41:32 <pili> got it
18:42:50 <GeKo> okay, i guess we postpone a decision here
18:43:02 <GeKo> until we get further insight into the situation
18:43:31 <pili> hmm, except I can't get 8.5.4 from  https://dist.torproject.org/torbrowser/ ...
18:43:32 <pili> ugh
18:43:36 <GeKo> the overall timing is bad, but yeah
18:43:55 <GeKo> archive.torproject.org/tor-package-archive/torbrowser/8.5.4
18:44:03 <mcs> The updater bug might be https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1556733 (depends on the symptoms I suppose).
18:44:04 <GeKo> + https:// infront should help
18:44:09 <pili> thanks!
18:44:19 <GeKo> mcs: indeed!
18:44:38 <GeKo> but that means this twitter person is running an older tor browser
18:45:03 <pili> ok, I guess we'll know more tomorrow
18:45:12 <sysrqb> i contacted the person, so hopefully we'll get more details soon
18:46:49 <GeKo> thanks
18:47:20 <sysrqb> but i agree we should hold off on the release until we know more
18:48:35 <sysrqb> (i don't have anything else to add)
18:49:00 <pili> ok
18:49:05 <pili> anything else on this?
18:49:31 <pili> or the next few releases?
18:49:32 <pili> I don't see anything else on the pad :)
18:51:32 <sysrqb> (nope)
18:51:54 <pili> ok
18:51:58 <pili> let's leave it there then :)
18:52:01 <pili> thanks everyone!
18:52:04 <pili> #endmeeting