13:59:18 <antonela> #startmeeting ux team
13:59:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Mar  3 13:59:18 2020 UTC.  The chair is antonela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:18 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:23 <antonela> hello people!
13:59:47 <antonela> welcome to a new ux team meeting
13:59:51 <antonela> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2020-keep
13:59:52 <pili> hey! :)
14:00:14 <antonela> here is the pad, feel free to add topics to discuss and please add your updates
14:00:18 <antonela> hi pili
14:00:37 <antonela> thanks for adding a triage, my fav moment of the month ^___^
14:01:03 <pili> hehe :D
14:01:22 <pili> (I have a recurring reminder in my calendar for it ;) )
14:01:28 <antonela> nice nice
14:02:01 <antonela> emmapeel: thanks for reviewing #33482, i think we will be able to release that iteration soonish cc/sstevenson
14:02:17 <antonela> oi thurayya o/
14:03:05 <antonela> okey, lets start
14:03:16 <emmapeel> cool!
14:03:31 <thurayya> ooi :) o/
14:03:43 <antonela> pili, lets go through the triage
14:03:54 <antonela> i think we haven't one the last month
14:04:04 <antonela> so the pile should be interesting now :)
14:04:04 <pili> this is the query I have:
14:04:06 <pili> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&component=%5EUX&or&status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&keywords=~ux-team&col=id&col=summary&col=keywords&col=component&desc=1&order=id
14:04:10 * antonela opens
14:04:21 <pili> nope, probably not even in January
14:04:30 <antonela> oops
14:04:43 <antonela> okey, lets do it
14:05:17 <pili> start from the top? newest first :P
14:05:30 <pili> #33482 is in progress
14:05:42 <pili> #33390
14:06:16 <pili> I'm not sure we want to do this
14:06:27 <pili> I should probably have brought it yesterday to the browser team
14:06:29 <antonela> a ver
14:07:03 <antonela> if it is what i think, i've been waiting for it liek for ever
14:07:06 <antonela> *like
14:07:16 <antonela> like, second link "Open in tor browser"
14:07:22 <antonela> no link, click
14:07:56 <antonela> ohh no
14:07:58 <antonela> is a different thing
14:08:06 <pili> it's like viewing docs directly in browser
14:08:07 <thurayya> i'm confused if it is to record history or autocomplete
14:08:09 <pili> and it's for an addon
14:08:23 <pili> like for pdfs
14:08:34 <antonela> interesting, i don't think we can do it before having some security measure on the tab, we don have isolation, but what happen with corrupt files
14:08:37 <pili> or I guess it could even be any other document like video files
14:08:54 <antonela> *measures, *do
14:08:58 <antonela> yep
14:09:05 <pili> you can already view pdfs though
14:09:06 <pili> so not sure what other documents they want to view
14:09:09 <pili> I may ask for more info actually
14:09:16 <emmapeel> depending on the browser you are using.. ut if you are using Tor Browser maybe is safer than if you are using IExplorer
14:09:27 <antonela> is interesting, we will not add the addon now, im sure but is something we can explore
14:09:37 <antonela> i have some notes to work on downloaded files
14:09:42 <antonela> maybe it is related
14:10:16 <emmapeel> there was a similar discussion in Tails a while ago, about how to open PDFs, and I htuink it was decided to open them in Tor Browser because of the isolation and also because of AppArmour that restricts Tor Browser in Tails
14:10:17 <pili> ok
14:10:23 * thurayya was in the wrong ticket
14:10:41 <antonela> okey, i dont think we can handle it now pili
14:11:03 <emmapeel> (it was decided instead of calling the standalone pdf reader)
14:11:06 <pili> I will ask for more info, point them to pdfs already opening in browser and let's move on to #33357
14:11:14 <antonela> but can be part of about:downloads work
14:11:16 <pili> which we already tried out
14:11:27 <antonela> that was a nice one and i made a mock :)
14:11:31 <pili> as in antonela already looked at #33357 and made a mock :)
14:11:42 <pili> so I guess we review at some point
14:11:51 <antonela> i've been talking about it with pospeselr and maybe we can work on that after s27 ends
14:12:08 <pili> cool
14:12:10 <pili> #33298
14:12:15 <pili> is S27
14:12:22 <antonela> i still wonder how this threat model works with other chrome elements like i dont know, lets say favicons? i dont know
14:12:33 <antonela> yep, is s27
14:13:04 <pili> I guess we need to wait for some dev work there first
14:13:07 <antonela> yep
14:13:18 <pili> #33035 - also S27 and in progress
14:13:26 <antonela> i think im done there
14:13:31 <antonela> devs are working on it
14:13:39 <antonela> we will need l10n for those
14:13:45 <pili> sounds good
14:14:01 <antonela> i think we are in a very good shape for this first version of onion error pages
14:14:04 <pili> I guess they'll make it to transifex once things are merged
14:14:09 <antonela> yep
14:14:21 <pili> #32973 - this one was from a frontdesk query
14:14:37 <antonela> yep, asked multiple times
14:15:04 <pili> I think nothing to do here for now
14:15:14 <antonela> i remember talking with matt about it
14:15:19 <pili> as in, the browser team won't have bandwidth to work on it anytime soon
14:15:28 <pili> but it could be a nice enhancement in future
14:15:34 <antonela> oh, matt commented yep
14:16:09 <pili> #32938 - not sure what is needed here, need to read...
14:16:11 <antonela> hey robinw o/
14:16:24 <robinw> Sorry I am late.
14:16:52 <antonela> snowflake proxy volunteers == snowflake extension in browsers
14:17:08 <antonela> no worries robinw, since is the first meeting of the month, we are doing tickets triage
14:17:12 <pili> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&component=%5EUX&or&status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&keywords=~ux-team&col=id&col=summary&col=keywords&col=component&desc=1&order=id
14:17:31 <pili> those are the tickets again, so we're all on the same page ^
14:17:45 <antonela> im not sure what is needed from me there but i should back to the ac meetings since is march and s30 started for me
14:17:49 <emmapeel> i have added a new discussion, i should make a ticket about it really
14:17:51 <antonela> so i can ask to cososh
14:17:51 <pili> yup
14:17:53 <antonela> cohosh
14:18:08 <antonela> cool, next?
14:18:12 <pili> for #32938 we should ask cohosh whether she wants some ux review or something
14:18:35 <pili> #32811
14:18:46 <antonela> yep, that is s30
14:18:57 <antonela> tunde has been traveling last month, so he shared with me the interviews
14:19:04 <pili> cool
14:19:13 <antonela> i didn't have time to listen them yet, but we will work on personas together after we digest that raw material
14:19:29 <antonela> that field research will inform our work on s30
14:19:41 <pili> I had #32645 on my list also
14:19:44 <pili> but it's closed now
14:19:46 <antonela> is done!
14:19:47 <antonela> \o/
14:19:49 <pili> and it's S27 anyway
14:20:16 <thurayya> antonela: if you need help with that o/ i'm here ;)
14:20:28 <pili> #32459
14:21:05 <pili> I wonder if we already spoke about this one, since it was opened 4 months ago... :S
14:21:34 <antonela> thurayya: yes! i did not want to put other thing on you, but yes, if we can work together that'd be awesome
14:21:45 <antonela> pili: we will need user facing documentation for #32645
14:21:54 <antonela> i cannot find now where it is the current one
14:22:01 <antonela> but we will need to update that entry with the new icons
14:22:03 <pili> yup, I think I didn't get around to creating the tickets for this
14:22:11 <pili> I will do that today
14:22:22 <antonela> thank you!
14:23:35 <pili> for #32459 I think we won't do this
14:23:55 <pili> let's discuss though
14:24:11 <antonela> i want to do it!
14:24:21 <pili> hehe ok
14:24:42 <antonela> especially when tor-launcher dies
14:24:57 <antonela> i have that one in my _tickets for s30_
14:25:04 <pili> ah, interesting
14:25:12 <pili> I'll move it to June on the browser side
14:25:19 <antonela> which is not s30 per se
14:25:20 <pili> as we're unlikely to look at it before then
14:25:24 <antonela> but is something to think about
14:25:30 <antonela> yep is fine
14:25:34 <antonela> even june is early
14:25:55 <pili> june is just for discussing ;P
14:26:01 <antonela> yep
14:26:09 <antonela> i just saw that i "unparented" it
14:26:18 <antonela> just to close the parent, because was related but not too much
14:26:32 <pili> yup
14:26:36 <pili> let's move on to #32330
14:27:32 <antonela> something i've been thinking at some point is having an indicator for when the cookie changes, this is interesting but needs research (i need to read more)
14:28:05 <antonela> oh georg has options there
14:28:22 <antonela> i dont think we will have it in 9.5, but if we want then i'll need one pospeselr or acat to work on it
14:28:30 <pili> sounds like this is something we want to explore further then
14:28:35 <pili> will push to july
14:28:39 <antonela> yep, lets say after 9.5?
14:28:53 <antonela> we have a lot going on in 9.5 and it is related with the work richard is doing on per-site sec settings
14:28:57 <antonela> _somehow_
14:29:05 <pili> oh, it's already for June
14:29:06 <pili> I'll leave it
14:29:15 <antonela> cool
14:29:44 <pili> next one is #32325 which I think we have already discussed previously
14:29:52 <pili> so I think we're done with triage
14:31:10 <antonela> ehhh
14:31:24 <antonela> i dont think it will make 9.5
14:31:33 <antonela> so maybe pushing it for after june makes sense?
14:31:45 <pili> it's currently pushed to june
14:32:19 <pili> actually, there are a few more that I'm not sure we've discussed
14:32:19 <antonela> also, diogo already provided an UI
14:32:27 <pili> so. stop me when they sound familiar... ;)
14:32:32 <antonela> haha go for them!
14:33:04 <pili> #32324 - letterboxing also
14:33:13 <pili> #32228
14:33:25 <antonela> that is a good one
14:33:28 <pili> this could be a good one for the nullcon hackathon ^ cc: kushal
14:33:36 <emmapeel> yes!
14:33:41 <antonela> maybe we want to push it now with our onions release
14:33:44 <antonela> all them should be onions
14:34:14 <pili> that one is deferred until after ESR transition
14:34:19 <antonela> oki
14:35:04 <pili> #32120 - not sure which links this refers to, maybe we can add this to the websites roadmap
14:35:12 <antonela> ha
14:35:15 <antonela> yes please, we need docs
14:35:57 <pili> next one is #32119 and I think this one we definitely have been through already
14:36:00 <antonela> i can have it during s30 too, i want to review the flow of ui changes in preferences#tor because in some cases users need to reload the browser, in others just reload the tabs
14:36:21 <antonela> and we need to advice users about it, because they change the ui and nothing happens
14:36:49 <antonela> some proactive notification will make that flow less weird
14:37:03 <pili> sure
14:37:06 <antonela> yep, i think we can close that one, we already shipped new versions
14:37:15 <antonela> im not sure now if new users are still getting that one
14:37:23 <pili> ok, will close #32119
14:37:34 <antonela> i dont think so, the tier of updated users got that onboarding
14:37:38 <antonela> (if im not wrong)
14:37:57 <antonela> tier, cohort
14:38:37 <kushal> pili, noted
14:38:56 <antonela> thanks kushal :)
14:39:01 <antonela> what else pili?
14:39:04 <pili> ok, I think we're done with triage then?
14:39:07 <antonela> perfect
14:39:09 <pili> there's some other discussion points :)
14:39:12 <antonela> that was useful
14:39:18 <antonela> thanks for running it pili!
14:39:23 <antonela> next item is emmapeel's?
14:39:26 <pili> yw :)
14:40:12 <emmapeel> kushal: if someboyd is interested in lektor development, or lektor-i18n-plugin development, give me a ping
14:40:31 <emmapeel> yes! so, the other day there was a debate, and i wanted to check i was not a dogmatic bitch :D
14:40:57 <antonela> maybe you are and is fine
14:40:57 <antonela> lol
14:41:26 <emmapeel> because the debate appeared framed as a traslation problem: how to translate 'pluggable transports' but it ended up as 'lets fix this during translation because the original term is not clear enough'
14:41:32 <emmapeel> hehehe
14:41:38 <antonela> yes
14:41:43 <antonela> the original term is complicated itself
14:42:07 <emmapeel> we had a lot of problems to decide on 'transportes conectables' and i think it is maybe because the terminology is not clear
14:42:22 <antonela> https://www.pluggabletransports.info/
14:42:29 <antonela> i was spanish reviewer here
14:42:30 <emmapeel> but then gaba said : we cannot change the original, lets fix it during translation. i am not comfortable with this solution
14:42:43 <antonela> and the spanish version says "transportes conectables"
14:43:07 <emmapeel> yeah but people was like 'i want to translate it as 'transporters ofuscados'
14:43:28 <antonela> well, here is where our glossary takes stage
14:43:35 <antonela> no?
14:44:16 <emmapeel> yeah, i agree with that. but can we change pluggable transports to obfuscated transports?
14:44:52 <emmapeel> i mean.. i edit the glossary and change it, but the translators can find errors in the terminology
14:45:33 <emmapeel> i would like to know if there is a process for changing terminology, as we are having so many different projects in the tor ecosystem and the metaphors need to be more clear
14:45:52 <antonela> i dont think we can change it now, like there is an state of research running using that terminology
14:46:16 <pili> antonela:+1
14:46:26 <pili> the other option is we just don't translate it ;P
14:46:27 <antonela> maybe the anticensorship team can help you on developing answers about it
14:46:30 <emmapeel> yeah. regarding changing terminology, there is still 'hidden services' all over, not much change to onion services
14:46:47 <antonela> i see
14:47:00 <kushal> emmapeel, Okay.
14:47:14 <pili> emmapeel: that's a good point about onion services
14:47:25 <pili> I think it will take a while for hidden services to disappear
14:47:37 <kushal> emmapeel, can you please note down a few issues or improvement for lektor or lektor-i18n-plugin ?
14:47:40 <pili> we could do some sort of search and replace on all our webites for it :)
14:47:54 <antonela> pili, yes at least
14:49:03 <emmapeel> ok, so we translate as transportes conectables, because the translation should translate the real terms, otherwise you use ofuscados and then you see a text in italian and dont know what they are talking about
14:49:24 <antonela> i think so, yes
14:49:31 <antonela> it sounds reasonable for me emmapeel
14:49:38 <emmapeel> and if you have a problem with that you can come to the anti-censorhip team meeting and express your views there :D
14:49:51 <emmapeel> thanks!
14:50:02 <pili> thanks emmapeel :)
14:50:14 <antonela> exactly
14:50:18 <antonela> haha
14:50:19 <emmapeel> kushal: all the tickets i have opened on their bugtracker! :D
14:50:23 <antonela> cool
14:50:28 * antonela goes to see the pad
14:50:43 <antonela> emmapeel: you again? - documentation needs? plz triage for DocsHackathon
14:50:58 <antonela> pili is a good time to list all the needs from s27?
14:51:01 <emmapeel> just a note, about the upcoming DocsHackathon
14:51:07 <kushal> emmapeel, any link for the i18n related issues? I can directly point people to that then
14:51:13 <emmapeel> it would be nice to have more easy tickets
14:51:16 <pili> antonela: documentation needs you mean? :)
14:51:23 <antonela> yes?
14:51:32 <antonela> emmapeel: true
14:51:32 <pili> yeah, I was debating whether to add those, since they are new features and only on alphas or nightlies
14:51:45 <pili> I guess no harm in adding them
14:51:49 <antonela> some stuff are not only alpha or nightlies
14:52:01 <antonela> (most of them, i think)
14:52:07 <antonela> we can talk about it in the next meeting :)
14:52:14 <pili> sure :)
14:52:27 <emmapeel> kushal: https://github.com/numericube/lektor-i18n-plugin/issues - last commit to the repo: april 2018. i think somebody has to take over development :S
14:55:41 <antonela> okey
14:55:48 <antonela> that is all in our discussion items
14:55:52 <antonela> anything else folks?
14:56:02 <kushal> Thank you.
14:56:06 <pili> I'm good
14:56:12 <thurayya> i forgot to add rmeote user research on the pad, but i'm gonna move it to tor-ux
14:56:13 <pili> (s27 meeting in 3 minutes!)
14:56:35 <antonela> thurayya: oki, thanks!
14:56:37 <antonela> thanks folks!
14:56:40 <antonela> #endmeeting