18:02:04 <gaba> #startmeeting June 15th Tor Browser 18:02:04 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jun 15 18:02:04 2020 UTC. The chair is gaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:02:04 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:02:06 <sysrqb> antonela: si 18:03:10 <gaba> please update your status in the pad and add anything to the agenda 18:03:47 <gaba> as you all can see I changed a little the structure of the pad meeting 18:06:29 <mikeperry> are all the tbb tickets synced in gitlab? ahf just told me something about us needing to split components? does that affect my ability to update tickets? 18:06:40 <gaba> not yet mikeperry 18:06:58 <gaba> we will be able to start updating tickets tomorrow 18:07:38 <ahf> mikeperry: you shouldn't update tickets right now - you can't on trac and you shouldn't on gitlab 8) 18:07:48 <mikeperry> ok 18:10:34 <gaba> ok. it seems we can start ? 18:10:46 <sysrqb> mikeperry: that's a discusion point for this meeting 18:10:59 <gaba> s58 project. Sysrqb and Antonela had a meeting last week about it. Anything to bring here? 18:11:07 <gaba> about Obj 2.1 18:11:10 <sysrqb> we had a good meeting 18:11:20 <antonela> indeed 18:11:25 <antonela> you can read the logs 18:11:36 <sysrqb> we opened many tickets for UI/functionality available in the current fennec-based Tor browser 18:11:47 <sysrqb> and we need to re-design for the fenix-based browser 18:11:58 <sysrqb> yes, we used the bot, so there is a log 18:12:03 <antonela> my plan is start to work on them this month 18:12:19 <gaba> new tickets are all in O2.1 of https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor58 18:12:23 <gaba> ok 18:12:38 <sysrqb> we have them in two parts, "re-design" under 2.1 18:12:44 <sysrqb> and "Re-implement" under 2.4 18:12:57 <gaba> nice 18:13:11 <antonela> so 2.1 have my estimations 18:13:15 <antonela> and 2.4 dev one 18:13:23 <sysrqb> we can improve the linking between the two sets of tickets 18:13:36 <antonela> haha yes, we can do it once gitlab is ready for messing up :) 18:13:38 <sysrqb> i haven't added any estimations on the rimplementation tickets yet 18:13:48 <sysrqb> yeah 18:14:00 <sysrqb> *reimplementation 18:14:28 <gaba> thanks 18:14:35 <sysrqb> i think that's all i have for this :) 18:14:36 <gaba> next is #31283 18:14:42 <sysrqb> unless someone has questions 18:14:45 <sysrqb> ah. 18:14:50 <gaba> yes please, questions? :) 18:14:56 <sysrqb> hrm. 18:15:32 <gaba> antonela: I think you are adding this here 18:15:36 <sysrqb> i guess antonela added #tor-meeting-? 18:15:44 <sysrqb> err #31283 :) 18:15:49 <gaba> yes 18:15:53 <antonela> so, for S30 we are planning on having the next stable release focused in circumvention. TB10 release will have snowflake in stable, and we are planning some improvements regarding the boostrapping flow 18:15:57 <GeKo> seems we need to nail down the scenarios in o3.1 first, right? 18:16:00 <antonela> yes hold on, im trying to explain :) 18:16:06 <GeKo> id that done somewhere? 18:16:14 <antonela> yes #31282 18:16:22 <gaba> geko: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor30 18:16:40 <antonela> GeKo: yes, we are working on listing them there 18:17:41 <antonela> i'd love for the tb folks to review my proposal, ask questions, tell us what is wrong with this approach and suggest improvements. I want to involve you folks in this super early stage of the planning because i want to be in the same page about what is doable and what not 18:18:02 <GeKo> okay 18:18:03 <antonela> ideally we will bring this to desktop and tba, but first we can focus on desktop 18:18:20 <GeKo> so what should go into 10.0 here is the main question i have right now? 18:18:31 <gaba> the proposals are in #31283 18:18:34 <antonela> please feel free on commenting there, this is just a first draft and i plan to move forward after handling all your feedback 18:19:24 <antonela> GeKo: right, not exactly the child tickets which are random picked tickets under some objective, but the overall idea about to plan a tor launcher removal and handling bridges in a more proactive way (than reactive, which is the current approach) 18:19:43 <sysrqb> i really like the idea of TB10 being an "anti-censorship release" 18:19:52 <gaba> me too 18:19:57 <sysrqb> and getting S30 improvements into that release 18:20:13 <sysrqb> but, we need to be careful about over-promising what we can complete within the next three months 18:20:13 * GeKo waits for sysrqb's "but" 18:20:18 <sysrqb> :) 18:20:22 <GeKo> ah, here it is, good 18:20:23 <antonela> right 18:20:25 <antonela> hahha 18:20:30 <GeKo> i think we should aim for 10.5 for that 18:20:32 <mcs> well played 18:20:38 <gaba> hehe 18:20:46 <antonela> ye, and we can have middle steps planning forward 18:20:48 <GeKo> when is the sponsor ending? 18:20:58 <sysrqb> next year, i believe 18:21:01 <antonela> the anticensorship team have other sponsors running too 18:21:10 <antonela> but im not sure how much tb dev capacity those have 18:21:33 <antonela> Project Period: September 20, 2019 - November 30, 2021 18:21:34 <gaba> yes, next year 18:21:55 <gaba> this is the only anticensroship project that has tb dev work 18:22:13 <sysrqb> but, i think we can make small progress on this 18:22:28 <gaba> yes, if not the tb dev work on this can wait until s58 is done 18:22:52 <sysrqb> maybe something simple like #34343 18:23:00 <GeKo> i don't think we have time until end of september for that 18:23:03 <GeKo> i mean, sure 18:23:13 <GeKo> if we have fixed all our must fix todo items 18:23:16 <antonela> anyways, the ux part is planned for this year and i want to have your review/feedback on that even if you are not going to develop _now_ 18:23:17 <GeKo> sounds good to me 18:23:42 <antonela> thank you folks 18:23:42 <sysrqb> yes 18:24:07 <antonela> (like i want to deliver something we consider is doable, for dreamy plans we have silicon valley) 18:24:16 <sysrqb> antonela: yes, thanks. we should provide feedback, at least 18:24:21 <GeKo> antonela: okay, so you need review of what exactly? 18:24:23 <sysrqb> even if we don't have time for implementing it right now 18:24:36 <GeKo> the thing in #31283? 18:24:37 <antonela> GeKo: #31283 18:24:39 <antonela> yes 18:24:40 <GeKo> k 18:24:45 <antonela> thanks <3 18:24:53 <GeKo> by when? :) 18:25:04 <antonela> this month? 18:25:07 <antonela> maybe? next month? 18:25:08 <GeKo> wfm 18:25:11 <antonela> is fine, no hurries 18:25:14 <GeKo> (this month) 18:25:18 <antonela> great 18:25:25 <gaba> next topic is Gitlab :) 18:25:36 <gaba> \o/ to ahf for all the work he put on this! 18:25:38 <sysrqb> we have a couple sub-topics on this 18:25:43 <ahf> sysrqb: cool! 18:25:44 <sysrqb> yes! 18:26:32 <sysrqb> okay, 1) we should talk about the current final-move piece of this migration for tor browser tickets 18:26:42 <sysrqb> GeKo: did you see the backlog in #tor-project? 18:26:46 <GeKo> yes 18:26:51 <sysrqb> from the chat i had with gaba and ahf? 18:26:55 <GeKo> yes 18:26:56 <sysrqb> okay 18:27:07 <sysrqb> thoughts? :) 18:27:08 <GeKo> i think i can get it done today 18:27:13 <ahf> coolio. i slept to very late today, so i will be around for many hours from now 18:27:32 <GeKo> i am pulling an arma and pretend that timezones don't exist 18:27:40 <ahf> oh no 18:27:40 <GeKo> :) 18:27:42 <sysrqb> :) 18:27:47 <gaba> lol 18:27:50 <ahf> you will become a planeswalker soon 18:28:00 <GeKo> no thanks 18:28:04 <ahf> :-S 18:28:16 <ahf> nah, when it is ready, you can prod me and i will begin the extract stuff 18:28:28 <GeKo> yep, that was my plan, thanks 18:28:48 <sysrqb> and let me/us know if we can help with anything 18:28:56 <sysrqb> we can tlak about project name mappings after the meeting, too 18:29:00 <sysrqb> *talk 18:29:04 <ahf> yep, i will need one of you to check it a bit when it is done to tell me if things looks OK 18:29:04 <GeKo> will do 18:29:25 <sysrqb> yep. i can do some post-checks 18:29:25 <ahf> i think i will be done 1h-1h30m after you give me the list 18:29:29 <ahf> *nods* 18:29:32 <sysrqb> cool 18:29:34 <GeKo> i think the names look good so far apart from "topl" 18:29:45 <sysrqb> good 18:29:54 <GeKo> we'll have another repo i think for an obscure piece which is our windows installer code 18:30:10 <GeKo> because i found a ticket that belongs into that part 18:30:16 <gaba> i was thinking that the board for this team could be in https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/applications/-/boards with all the issues that needs to be worked on from the different projects BUT we can talk about it in the next meeting 18:30:29 <sysrqb> GeKo: heh. okay 18:30:31 <antonela> applications/torbrowser? 18:30:37 <ahf> remember you can use for example 'topl' and then make it look like it says 'Tor Onion ...' in the title 18:30:46 <GeKo> right now the label is gitlab-tb-tbb-windows-installer 18:30:52 <ahf> 'Fallback Scripts' is the name of the project on gitlab, and its slug is fallback-scripts 18:31:01 <GeKo> so the repo would be tbb-windows-installer which would work for me at least 18:31:24 <ahf> you want *tbb* not just *tb*? and do you want the prefix even? 18:31:35 <ahf> the path is gonna be: /tpo/applications/tbb-windows-installer 18:31:40 <sysrqb> ahf: i was just thinking that, too 18:31:48 <ahf> /tpo/applications/windows-installer is free 18:32:01 <sysrqb> shoudl we use this opportunity and move away from "bundle" names? 18:32:04 <GeKo> yes, but we might have more apps at some point with some installer? 18:32:05 <ahf> i don't think we have any other things that TB stuff in /applications 18:32:10 <ahf> but then they can get a prefix 18:32:18 <GeKo> and the upstream repo is tbb-windows-installer 18:32:27 <GeKo> (yes, there is an upstream one :)) 18:32:33 <GeKo> but i don't mind 18:32:35 <ahf> it is up to you :-) i won't have the final say at all there, just suggesting it 18:32:53 * GeKo puts it on sysrqb's plate 18:33:24 <sysrqb> great. i don't know 18:33:30 <ahf> roll the dice! 18:33:34 <sysrqb> i'll look at this after the meeting 18:33:36 <sysrqb> :) 18:33:37 <ahf> nod 18:34:07 <sysrqb> okay. and gaba's comment about the board leads us into the second (?) part of this topic 18:34:07 <gaba> anything else on s58? nobody seems blocked. Any help needed? 18:34:12 <gaba> oops 18:34:13 <gaba> sorry 18:34:20 <sysrqb> :) no worries 18:34:39 <sysrqb> i'll only say that we should re-think our workflow(s) now we have gitlab 18:34:52 <sysrqb> and all of the new functionality it gives us 18:34:58 <gaba> yes 18:35:07 <sysrqb> and we shouldn't remain tied to whow we worked with trac 18:35:21 <sysrqb> i don't know what the future workflows look like 18:35:24 <gaba> the sky is the limit? 18:35:30 <sysrqb> but as we start playing around with gitlab and become more familiar 18:35:33 <mcs> is there a suggested workflow? maybe we need to create one? 18:35:34 * antonela wants to visit pluto 18:35:43 <sysrqb> all of us should think about what a better workflow looks like 18:35:52 <gaba> yes, great 18:36:03 <ahf> i think discovering what works well is something we across teams will have to figure out. some will move their repos over and start using merge requests, they have it very easy 18:36:07 <gaba> i have some thoughts but we can talk about this next week when people have more time to play with gitlab 18:36:14 <ahf> those staying with canonical upstream repos on git.tpo will have a slightly different workflow 18:36:19 <gaba> right 18:36:20 <ahf> some wont even have repos there :-o 18:36:20 <gaba> ^ 18:36:32 <sysrqb> mcs: i think we can get suggestions from other teams, llike the network "team" 18:37:06 <sysrqb> great 18:37:18 <sysrqb> gaba: yes, please, let's discuss this next week 18:37:42 <sysrqb> but everyone should keep this in mind as they work with gitlab this week 18:37:49 <gaba> and as the work inside the applications group may be affected by how other teams/spaces work then we need to coordinate 18:38:01 <gaba> i would like us to use some labels that are at tpo level 18:38:12 <gaba> so we can have an overview at tpo level of all the work being done 18:38:24 <GeKo> sounds useful 18:38:26 <sysrqb> yes, that sounds good 18:39:03 <sysrqb> i think that's all i have for this topic 18:39:04 <gaba> anything else on this? 18:39:07 <gaba> ok 18:39:09 <gaba> anything else on s58? nobody seems blocked. Any help needed? or anything else? 18:39:44 <sysrqb> . 18:39:53 * ahf is good, but also was useless on this last week 18:39:53 <GeKo> i am fine 18:39:55 <sysrqb> one thing GeKo and I discussed earlier 18:40:28 <sysrqb> acat: one of the next projects we think you are a good persons for working on 18:40:44 <sysrqb> is improving our patch set so rebasing is easier in the future 18:41:19 <sysrqb> this isn't needed this week, but we should thikn about how we can make rebasing less painful 18:41:24 <sysrqb> and faster, overall 18:42:14 <sysrqb> and that is probably a combination of the current effort in uplifting patches and maybe tweaking some of the other patches 18:43:24 <sysrqb> oh, and thinking about how we make sure rebased patches are still functioning correctly 18:43:33 <sysrqb> part of that is the tests/testsuite 18:43:48 <sysrqb> but maybe there is more we can do 18:44:36 <acat> yes, i actually added "covering patches" with tests this week too 18:44:56 <sysrqb> and mcs, brade: can you help with starting to review the release notes since FF75, as well? 18:45:10 <sysrqb> your week may be pretty full with your current list 18:45:28 <mcs> sysrqb: we will add that to the pile :) 18:45:36 <acat> patches like onion security expectations, client authentication, onion-location, onion names... take some time to test, as this has to be done manually currently 18:45:36 <sysrqb> but having you start that soon will be helpful 18:45:41 <sysrqb> mcs: thanks :) 18:46:07 <sysrqb> acat: great, thanks 18:46:28 <acat> i'm never sure what's covered by s58 and what not, though :) 18:46:34 <sysrqb> getting the official testsuite working again by testing/merging your patches 18:46:37 <sysrqb> is on my plate this week 18:46:46 <acat> i guess making tests is included in s58 18:47:06 <GeKo> acat: getting the rebase into good shape is :) 18:47:11 <sysrqb> s58 is basically "anything that affects Android, or anytihng that Android relies on" 18:47:24 <sysrqb> but yes, rebasing all patches is part of this 18:48:01 <sysrqb> okay, now i think i'm done :) 18:48:20 <gaba> ok, if there is nothing else then let's close the meeting 18:48:29 <gaba> #endmeeting