18:01:02 <gaba> #startmeeting Tor Browser July 6th 2020
18:01:02 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jul  6 18:01:02 2020 UTC.  The chair is gaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:02 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:05 <gaba> pad is here: http://kfahv6wfkbezjyg4r6mlhpmieydbebr5vkok5r34ya464gqz6c44bnyd.onion/p/tor-tbb-2020-keep
18:01:08 <acat> hi!
18:02:17 <gaba> hope you all are doing well
18:02:51 <sysrqb> you, too
18:03:57 <antonela> hi!
18:04:04 <sysrqb> hello!
18:04:31 <sysrqb> brade/mcs are afk this week
18:05:22 <GeKo> are we just replacing our old entries every time?
18:05:27 <gaba> yes
18:05:28 <GeKo> on the pad, that is
18:05:43 <GeKo> k
18:06:10 <gaba> ahf will not be at the meeting today but will read backlog later
18:06:34 <sysrqb> okay
18:06:42 <sysrqb> mikeperry here?
18:07:34 <sysrqb> okay, i think we can start
18:07:39 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> gaba, maybe clarify in the pad text that we're supposed to replace old entries?
18:07:41 <sysrqb> anyone still writing updates?
18:08:00 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> (seems it's a question that gets asked every meeting)
18:08:15 <gaba> sure. I will add something at the top of status
18:08:22 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> thanks!
18:09:04 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> acat, looks like you typoed June for July :)
18:09:39 <gaba> ok, let's start. I think everybody updated the status already
18:09:47 <acat> Jeremy_Rand_Talos: nice catch, thanks! :)
18:09:56 <sysrqb> i like believing we're still in June (too)
18:10:01 <gaba> :)
18:10:05 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> hehe
18:10:38 <gaba> We have a kanban board with all the stuff we are working on. Can you filter by your name and see if what you are working on and your plan is there? https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/applications/-/boards
18:11:04 <mikeperry> sysrqb: yah I am here
18:11:16 <sysrqb> cool
18:12:01 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> gaba, is the Kanban desired to cover non-Tor-employees such as myself?  (Loading it now...)
18:12:20 <gaba> Jeremy: it can :)
18:12:50 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> gaba, ok cool.  (Still adjusting my workflow to GitLab; feels like learning a new language)
18:13:30 <antonela> :)
18:15:24 <gaba> any issue, question, comment about this board and what you are working on?
18:16:25 <GeKo> acat: could you create tickets from now on for the rebase to a major new firefox version at least?
18:16:26 <sysrqb> mikeperry: do you think you'll actually start the proxy audit this week? or do you have other stuff on your plate that might take priority over it?
18:16:59 <GeKo> like a new ticket for rebase to 79beta
18:17:33 <acat> GeKo: yeah, i was actually doing so when you sent the first msg :)
18:17:52 <GeKo> awesome. thanks
18:19:14 <mikeperry> sysrqb: I am reading review responses now. it looks like that loose end is done.. as is the congestion control work, and funding proposal work (afaik)
18:19:24 <mikeperry> sysrqb: but every week I am surprised :/
18:19:44 <sysrqb> yep
18:19:51 <sysrqb> okay
18:20:06 <gaba> next we have the reviews. It seems that all the reviews are assigned. Can people check all the reviews you have on your plate and see if there is anything you need to give away?
18:20:10 <gaba> or need help
18:20:23 <GeKo> acat: i think it's worth fixing up torbutton#40001, too. should not be much more work needed
18:20:34 <antonela> i owe your mention in https-names acat :[ will do this week!
18:20:59 <sysrqb> GeKo and I discused this earlier, and we'll try getting nightly builds based on 78esr and fenix soon, even without the proxy safety audit
18:21:27 <sysrqb> (this == how what is blocked by the proxy audit)
18:23:16 <acat> GeKo: right, i guess i should have done that as a MR, i kinda forgot of legacy tickets (other than the rebase ones)
18:23:17 <mikeperry> we should encourage people to run firewalls and custom sandboxes to help check for surprise non-tor connections
18:23:27 <mikeperry> there are a few of these things floating around
18:23:53 <acat> antonela: thanks!
18:24:16 <sysrqb> mikeperry: yes
18:24:31 <sysrqb> we can document that in our new/shiny wiki
18:24:44 <mikeperry> specifically I fell like if you are running a nightly, you're interested in helping us find bugs early
18:24:48 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> mikeperry, not sure if you've seen the proxy leak detector I made using strace?
18:25:04 <sysrqb> link?
18:25:10 * Jeremy_Rand_Talos should probably add that to the wiki sometime
18:25:13 <gaba> sysrqb: and this is a perfect step to talk about wikiiiiis
18:25:16 <mikeperry> Jeremy_Rand_Talos: no! nice.
18:25:20 <sysrqb> gaba:  :)
18:25:38 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> https://github.com/JeremyRand/heteronculous (if my  memory for the URL is correct)
18:25:43 <mikeperry> there is also a container sandbox for linux that yawning made.. and an ubuntu apparmor prpfile I made years ago
18:25:50 <mikeperry> and little snitch rules can be made for mac, etc
18:26:21 <sysrqb> but the problem with most/all of them is you must audit the logs for denials
18:26:31 <sysrqb> but that is the current state of things
18:26:34 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> mikeperry, yeah seems like all these should be aggregated in the wiki at some point
18:26:34 <mikeperry> yeah, which is a great thing for ppl running nightlies to help us do
18:26:47 <mikeperry> like they are vulunteering to run fresh code to help us find bugs
18:26:58 <mikeperry> volunteering too
18:27:02 <mikeperry> by virtue of running nightly
18:27:39 <mikeperry> is there a wiki? I'm guessing our hacking pagfe is frozen?
18:27:47 <sysrqb> that is the next topic
18:28:07 <sysrqb> so, gaba and I talked about this earlier
18:28:25 <sysrqb> gaba can explain in more detail, i think
18:28:30 <gaba> other teams are having a team project inside the gitlab group
18:28:34 <gaba> to have the general wiki for the team
18:28:42 <gaba> with links to wikis of specific projects
18:28:43 <gaba> like TB
18:28:52 <gaba> i started with this one  https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/team
18:28:57 <gaba> that needs work
18:29:03 <gaba> it is only the stuff we had in the trac wiki
18:29:13 <sysrqb> nice
18:29:34 <gaba> stuff related with TB should be here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/wikis/home
18:30:23 <mikeperry> we have to import pages manually? is there a list of things we want to keep?
18:30:36 <gaba> ahf already imported the wiki into legacy in gitlab
18:30:41 <gaba> we could move it from there
18:30:47 <gaba> BUT there are many things not updated in the old wiki
18:30:53 <gaba> I think we should update it when moving things
18:30:55 <sysrqb> +1
18:31:13 <sysrqb> we created some pages recently (within the last year)
18:31:22 <sysrqb> those are likely okay to move as-is
18:31:28 <sysrqb> but many of the othe rpages are old and wrong
18:31:44 <gaba> ok
18:32:03 <sysrqb> like the Hacking page is not a good resource for building tor browser right now
18:32:32 <gaba> maybe some of those things will be in the developer portal later
18:32:54 <mikeperry> that is a shame; the hacking page can save ppl days of effort
18:32:57 <gaba> any other opinion about wikis?
18:33:16 <gaba> mikeperry: that could be updated, right?
18:33:26 <sysrqb> mikeperry: sure, but only if it's not misleading ;)
18:33:41 <mikeperry> can we make a list of pages we think should be first-class things that deserve update+migration attention, and those that can wait?
18:33:52 <sysrqb> sure
18:34:26 <sysrqb> at first look, i'd say we should prioritize any pages on the front page of the old wiki
18:34:29 <mikeperry> I also don't see the legacy import link.. current wiki links to old trac.. what is the legacy import link?
18:34:29 <sysrqb> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser
18:34:43 <mikeperry> into gitlab
18:35:22 <sysrqb> most of those are up-to-date, except Hacking, Triage, and the Unsupported Documentation
18:35:31 <sysrqb> (i think)
18:36:03 <sysrqb> oh, and I haven't updated "Bad Tor Browser" recently
18:36:13 <antonela> some of it can go to dev.tpo.org? i bet so
18:36:27 <sysrqb> yeah, maybe.
18:36:28 <gaba> mmm, I'm not finding the legacy one
18:36:33 <gaba> antonela: yes
18:36:53 <sysrqb> i should look at the dev portal issue and understand what content should go there :)
18:36:56 <antonela> anyways, make your wiki moving, i'll ask later
18:37:08 <sysrqb> kk
18:37:16 <gaba> there is an issue that antonela was asking feedback for
18:37:18 <gaba> related to dev portal
18:37:19 <antonela> right, will work on cleaning the feedback this month and put some preliminar content in staging
18:37:20 <sysrqb> yep
18:37:27 <antonela> yep, GeKo reviewed it
18:38:26 <gaba> mikeperry: https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac
18:38:38 <sysrqb> any other comments/thoughts about the wiki?
18:39:13 <mikeperry> I am still digging through that link to see how our pages got imported.. have not found a link to any imported TBB page yet...
18:39:32 <mikeperry> if anyone has a direct link that can save me some "next page" clicking for days, that would help
18:40:04 <antonela> ahf's one?
18:40:48 <mikeperry> https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/pages?page=2
18:41:00 <mikeperry> is there a better interface to look at the wiki pages that have been imported than that?
18:41:06 <sysrqb> hrm
18:41:08 <sysrqb> https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/Tor%20Browser
18:41:09 <mikeperry> because I am 2 pages deep in a 81 page rabbithole
18:41:38 <antonela> that one /legacy/ is what i have pasted in my notes
18:41:46 <mikeperry> empty?
18:41:50 <gaba> let's ask ahf later
18:41:54 <sysrqb> i got there from the link on https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/org/teams/ApplicationsTeam/
18:42:02 <sysrqb> but maybe the relative links aren't working (well)
18:42:21 <sysrqb> we can look after the meeting
18:42:45 <mikeperry> ok
18:44:39 <gaba> anything else?
18:45:01 <sysrqb> i have one announcement
18:45:06 <sysrqb> if we're done with wikis
18:46:01 * sysrqb assumes we're done
18:46:16 <sysrqb> there will be an Android-only Tor Browser release this week
18:46:47 <gaba> \o/
18:46:58 <sysrqb> Mozilla is preparing an unscheduled release for patching a bug in Fennec, and we will do the same
18:47:24 <sysrqb> so, don't be surprised :)
18:47:24 <gaba> when ?
18:47:31 <sysrqb> within the next day
18:47:38 <antonela> sysrqb: oki, so a fennec one and stable?
18:47:51 <sysrqb> antonela: yes
18:47:54 <antonela> got it
18:47:57 <sysrqb> (both stable and alpha)
18:48:28 <antonela> kk
18:48:29 <sysrqb> ping me if you have questions
18:49:01 <antonela> are we still up for our s58 tba sync tomorrow?
18:49:12 <antonela> (given the release, we can move to wed, if needed)
18:49:46 <sysrqb> hrm. maybe wed is better
18:49:50 <sysrqb> antonela: yes please
18:49:58 <antonela> super, after the all hands is good?
18:50:06 * antonela goes to update her cal
18:50:07 <sysrqb> yes
18:50:15 <sysrqb> thanks!
18:50:28 <antonela> super, thank you!
18:51:25 <gaba> ok. I'm going to close the meething then
18:51:35 <gaba> #endmeeting