14:00:02 <dunqan> #startmeeting ux monthly sync
14:00:02 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May 11 14:00:02 2021 UTC.  The chair is dunqan. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:02 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:09 <dunqan> Okay, let's do it :)
14:00:14 <dunqan> who's all here today?
14:00:21 <thurayya> o/
14:00:41 <dunqan> hey thurayya ^^
14:01:40 <josernitos> (^u^)/
14:01:40 <antonela> hello!
14:01:51 <dunqan> hi both!!
14:03:14 <dunqan> we'll give it another minute for any stragglers...
14:04:16 <antonela> :)
14:04:32 * antonela paste the pad https://pad.riseup.net/p/1D8sK8Zy74b_0qclC97I-ux-team-monthly-2020-keep
14:04:46 <dunqan> oh ha good idea, ty
14:04:54 * dunqan hasn't had a coffee yet
14:05:11 * dunqan scans the announcements
14:05:40 <dunqan> So, one announcement to note is Tor Browser ending its support of V2 onion services on July 15
14:06:06 <dunqan> https://twitter.com/torproject/status/1388905624847757315
14:06:42 <dunqan> The blog post is a little out of date, but we have some slightly more recent info available on https://status.torproject.org
14:07:43 <dunqan> antonela and pospeselr are currently working on browser changes to inform users who try and visit V2s of the upcoming changes
14:08:04 <antonela> yep, the next alpha will be out next week with these changes
14:08:18 <dunqan> \o/
14:09:13 <dunqan> Our first agenda item today is a brief status report on our progress working on the user survey reports
14:09:44 <dunqan> We currently have a private draft of the Snowflake survey report sitting with anti-censorship for review
14:10:12 <dunqan> once they've had the chance to digest & feedback we'll hopefully have a public version we can share at the next monthly meeting
14:10:31 * dunqan should make sure to attend the next anti-censorship team meeting to check
14:10:34 <antonela> excellent!
14:11:11 <thurayya> oops, sorry, my computer froze and i had to restart
14:11:22 <dunqan> thurayya: no prob!
14:11:30 <dunqan> how are you getting on with the massive TB user survey data? can I help in any way at the moment?
14:11:49 <thurayya> i went over 30k responses
14:11:51 <thurayya> one by one
14:11:57 <thurayya> until today
14:12:14 <dunqan> right, lots of keyboard spam?
14:12:20 <thurayya> i decided to do this after realizing that every tor browser android user were forced to answer it
14:12:23 <thurayya> everytime
14:12:28 <thurayya> yes :(
14:12:41 <thurayya> after 10k, it gets more and more common to have "invalid" answers
14:13:02 <thurayya> so, i'm considering invalid answers any answer that have the same works, like
14:13:30 <thurayya> "what do you like about tor?" "everything", "what do you dislike about tor?" "everything"
14:13:55 <thurayya> or offensive words/sentences; random numbers, random letters, random keys
14:14:10 <thurayya> and specifics words like "blank" "null"
14:14:37 <thurayya> as it shows the user was forced to answer the survey, instead of volunteered to answer
14:14:46 <dunqan> gotcha, are you working from a csv at the moment?
14:14:59 <thurayya> i'm also excluding any response that is not in english, but i'm putting it somewhere else, so we can have a closer look
14:15:08 <thurayya> they are not that many
14:15:15 <thurayya> dunqan: yes!
14:15:42 <dunqan> I found this quite useful too: https://sqlitebrowser.org/
14:15:59 <dunqan> so I could clean the db and run visualizations in metabase at the same time
14:16:29 <dunqan> but it's not any easier than just doing it in the csv
14:16:33 * josernit_ I lost wifi for a sec. lol, i'm still figuring things out with irc. Sorry
14:16:36 <thurayya> hmm
14:16:50 <thurayya> seems interesting
14:17:02 <thurayya> i'll download and try it anyway
14:17:25 <thurayya> i spend around 30min every 1k, so can i spend 30 min on sqlitebrowser too haha
14:17:52 <dunqan> aha well I would say it's probably only useful if you want to move between metabase and the data itself
14:18:06 <dunqan> like, if you want to test something in metabase and then jump back to do a little cleaning
14:18:38 <thurayya> i see, then it's better to try it after the cleaning
14:18:44 <dunqan> yep I think so
14:18:54 <dunqan> sorry this has become such a pain :(
14:19:44 <thurayya> no problem! it's like we said last meeting "meditation time"
14:19:46 <thurayya> haha
14:20:10 <dunqan> aha yes!
14:20:15 <thurayya> also, it shows us that maybe limesurvey is not the best option to tor browser android, or maybe what we have to look next time
14:20:26 <thurayya> so this doesn't happen again
14:20:40 <dunqan> do you know what the problem was, specifically?
14:20:46 * dunqan should investigate
14:20:58 <josernit_> why were users forced to answer?
14:21:00 <thurayya> they were forced to answer the survey in order to use tor browser android
14:21:10 <josernit_> =/
14:21:23 <dunqan> ugh, that's a huge problem
14:21:52 <thurayya> yep :/
14:22:17 <thurayya> anyways, i think by the end of the week i'll be done with the cleaning :)
14:22:40 <thurayya> then we can finally get the results -- we have really good answers!
14:22:49 <antonela> do we know where the answer came from? if tba or desktop?
14:22:50 <dunqan> It should have just been sitting on the TBA equivalent of about:tor
14:22:53 <thurayya> also, sorry it is taking so long to analyze them
14:22:59 <dunqan> e.g. the address bar should still be functional
14:23:26 <thurayya> antonela, hmm we ask what services they use
14:23:34 <thurayya> but not specifically what they are using atm
14:23:52 <sysrqb> hi! sorry, i'm lurking. I'm not sure I understand why  users were required to answer the survey
14:24:00 <dunqan> I noticed a few people were annoyed they couldn't _dismiss_ the banner
14:24:02 <sysrqb> maybe the UI/UX was confusing?
14:24:03 <thurayya> but that would be good to know
14:24:06 <dunqan> do they perhaps mean that instead?
14:24:20 <dunqan> (in which case we should add an "X" for next time)
14:24:21 <sysrqb> i gues we wsaw a similar experience with the end-of-year campaign
14:24:32 <sysrqb> where people thought they must donate before they could use the app
14:24:46 <dunqan> yep, that was my assumption
14:24:50 <sysrqb> :/
14:24:56 <sysrqb> sigh.
14:25:29 <antonela> :/
14:25:37 <thurayya> yep, that's probably it, unfortunately i didn't have the opportunity to try
14:25:46 <antonela> we can review it the next time
14:25:48 <dunqan> no problem
14:25:55 <sysrqb> yeah
14:25:59 <dunqan> I'll add a ticket for it so we remember for the next iteration :)
14:26:10 <dunqan> thanks thurayya & sysrqb!
14:26:12 <thurayya> great ;)
14:26:49 <dunqan> Next up in the agenda we have "TB 10.5 Alpha release on May 18th, call for testing"
14:26:53 <dunqan> is that yours antonela?
14:27:22 <antonela> yep!
14:27:29 <dunqan> :D
14:27:38 <antonela> we are going to call for testing on the next alpha release
14:27:55 <antonela> it will happen the 18th or aroundish
14:28:30 <antonela> i'm working on some simple questions to share with tor-qa but i also want to email some other community members
14:28:45 <antonela> thurayya: could we coordinate with gus to share the alpha with folks at the global-south list?
14:29:08 <antonela> i wish to finish the questions this week and ask you both for review
14:29:15 <thurayya> antonela: yes! :)
14:29:42 <dunqan> sounds great!
14:29:58 <dunqan> are we still thinking of a gitlab template for reporting?
14:30:07 <dunqan> I can't fully remember what we decided
14:30:19 <antonela> yes, my plan is go with the template
14:30:50 <thurayya> and get the responses by email, right/?
14:31:07 <antonela> (even in the mailing list, so we can copy and paste onto gitlab if users cannot access there for any reason)
14:31:11 <antonela> thurayya: yep
14:31:56 <dunqan> sure thing, makes sense
14:33:09 <antonela> the other item is also mine
14:33:23 <antonela> we stated weekly syncs on user research
14:33:32 <antonela> are small 0.5h meetings in tor-ux
14:33:46 <antonela> if you are a person running user research, please join us for updates
14:33:55 * antonela that's all
14:33:58 <thurayya> :D
14:34:20 <thurayya> next one is mine
14:34:20 <dunqan> woooo
14:34:46 <dunqan> (the woo is for weekly syncs lol)
14:34:59 <dunqan> (although I'm also cheering you on nah)
14:35:07 <thurayya> hahha
14:35:34 <thurayya> i wanted to share the last news about my fellowship with you. june is the last month of my fellowship with bertha foundation & the tor project
14:36:11 <thurayya> this month i'll be running my last activities - saturday a digisec training with fridays for future
14:36:25 <thurayya> next week two workshops with indigenous communities and organizations
14:37:04 <thurayya> and then i'm closing with my "products" that includes guides and materials in portuguese, guarani (indigenous language) and english
14:37:34 <thurayya> one of this guides is a how to use tor in the context of environmental activist in south america
14:38:08 <thurayya> and in june we'll have a week to share everything :)
14:38:17 <thurayya> that's all from me.
14:38:29 <thurayya> i also added josernit_ as i understand that his grant is also ending
14:38:45 <dunqan> sad it's coming to an end :(
14:38:53 <dunqan> BUT I'm super looking forward to seeing all your amazing work
14:39:08 <thurayya> so, if you want to share anything with us about your research, josernit_ ;)
14:39:18 <josernit_> This is so cool, I would love to read the guides and materials :)
14:39:40 <thurayya> dunqan: i shared some of the guides with antonela, but they are still not translated to english, so, when it's translated i'll share with you too dunqan (and everyone, actually)
14:39:52 <antonela> yes, its awesome work nah
14:39:54 <thurayya> gus[m] is helping me to review it too
14:40:01 <dunqan> thurayya: ty!!!
14:40:13 <antonela> we will keep thurayya after the fellowship ends, no worries folks :D
14:40:34 <thurayya> <333
14:41:32 <thurayya> josernit_, yes! i would love to get your opinions on it too.
14:41:48 <dunqan> how are you doing josernit_?
14:41:56 <josernit_> I'd love to. Yes.
14:42:10 <josernit_> Great, i was writing my response, so here it goes. :P
14:42:12 <josernit_> Oka. So, I followed-up the participants from last time (onboarding + a presentation for new users). This time I wanted to see if they continued to use the browser. The report has been published in gitlab, buuuut I found most of them didn’t want to recommend TB, their reasons being that it’s too technical for everyday users + they haven’t really got a grasp of all it’s functionality.
14:42:34 <josernit_> So, as a curious as I can be, and knowing that there is another activity (interviews), I want to understand why. As in, what are the things they think people will not understand + what are the things they struggle.
14:44:01 <josernit_> I've been losing participants as the weeks go by, but, I still have about 7 participants willing to have 1h meeting. I have not defined any guide atm, I sent a report to Internews to get a first payment.
14:44:34 <thurayya> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/ux/research/-/blob/master/reports/2021/Report_Follow-up_Survey_-_Costa_Rica_-_Internews.md << last report
14:44:45 <dunqan> yessss, it would be great to follow up with those questions
14:44:49 <josernit_> But yeah, after the interviews + analysis + report. It'll be the end of this journey.
14:44:52 <dunqan> 7 x 1hr is still good too!
14:45:28 <josernit_> Also, i'll use that 1h to answer any questions they have about TB. But yes.
14:45:47 <thurayya> yes, it's very good!
14:46:02 <josernit_> My main purpose is to understand why this feeling of not recommending.
14:46:16 <dunqan> josernit_: did you get the sense your users who _would_ recommend TB were more or less technically experienced?
14:46:38 <dunqan> meaning how do they groups compare?
14:46:44 <dunqan> *the groups
14:47:00 <josernit_> most of them are non-technical. but even the most technical did not want to recommend as it's not for everyday use.
14:47:20 <dunqan> right, interesting
14:48:01 <josernit_> I think I need to understand what they think when I say "recommend", as in to whom. Perhaps the answer change when they think of someone in need of anonimity instead of, idk, their parents (?)
14:48:01 <thurayya> hmmm does they say why it's not for everyday use?
14:49:33 <josernit_> Mmm, no, they just stated in general that it's not very friendly: some pages don't load, they need to start TB and connect, its a bit slow, tc.
14:50:11 <josernit_> But, what do they mean evryday? Who would they recommend it and who would not? Those interesting questions would be for the interviews :D
14:50:11 <thurayya> it's a really good report, josernit_, thanks for your work
14:50:27 <dunqan> yep, definitely worth exploring both of those angles in your follow-up interviews
14:50:29 <josernit_> thank you nah :))
14:50:35 <thurayya> yes!
14:50:46 <thurayya> if you want any of us to participate in the interviews, please let us know :)
14:50:57 <thurayya> i udnerstand it's in spanish, right?
14:51:38 <josernit_> I have not defined any time with them, some are by phone, others jitsi. But whenever I have a plan, I can share it with you. Yes, spanish!
14:51:57 <thurayya> great!
14:52:38 <josernit_> that's all from me
14:52:43 <dunqan> thanks josernit_!
14:52:56 <dunqan> In that case I think that's all folks
14:53:13 <dunqan> thanks very much for coming, and hope you all have a good week!
14:53:29 <dunqan> o/
14:53:32 <dunqan> #endmeeting