15:05:02 <richard> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2022-05-31
15:05:02 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May 31 15:05:02 2022 UTC.  The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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15:05:14 <boklm> hi
15:05:22 <richard> helo hello
15:05:29 <richard> meeting pad as always is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
15:07:34 <richard> PieroV, donuts: tor browser meeting?
15:07:44 <donuts> ya we're all here
15:07:48 <PieroV> richard: yes, I'm here
15:07:50 <richard> whew ok
15:07:51 <donuts> I think you just missed our o/s
15:08:02 <richard> yeah i was having internet struggles
15:08:06 <donuts> aha
15:08:16 <donuts> i was updating the pad :)
15:13:53 <richard> alright Pier why don't you start with your discussion point
15:14:02 <PieroV> sure
15:14:25 <PieroV> I've been working on making alpha easier to fork for S131
15:14:36 <PieroV> so, are we going to use my new branch for 91.10?
15:14:58 <PieroV> And I think that we could try to get the manual in it
15:15:16 <richard> that was my hope
15:15:31 <richard> if the https-everywhere replacement is ready, i'd love to get that into the alpha as well
15:15:44 <PieroV> richard: I'm waiting for your latest review :)
15:15:55 <PieroV> it's on the lowercase normalization of hostnames
15:16:01 <richard> (I know they keep piling up, i'll get through them today)
15:16:12 <richard> ah ok
15:16:34 <PieroV> so very easy stuff. Then I'll rebase to make a low number of commits (likely 3)
15:16:40 <richard> excellent
15:16:49 <PieroV> (1 for a FF bug, 1 for the feature, and 1 fixup for the strings)
15:16:54 <richard> the next alpha is going to be a pretty big deal between those two
15:17:17 <PieroV> Oh, speaking of strings, since about:rulesets isn't actually for end-users, should we translate it?
15:17:46 <donuts> hrm that's a good question
15:17:50 <richard> yes we should...
15:18:06 <richard> for the non-english speaking potential FSFs out there
15:18:21 <donuts> there aren't too many strings anyway
15:18:32 <richard> a trickier question may be where do we put the strings to minimize future pain
15:20:30 <PieroV> Well, I think that we could merge the MR in the meantime, and think about it later
15:20:40 <richard> yes
15:20:54 <richard> are they currently being pulled from TorStrings at least?
15:21:00 <PieroV> Yes
15:21:09 <richard> ok perfect
15:22:43 <richard> in the meantime, can you add the strings to tor-launcher and add a TorStrings fixup just so we can get strings into transifex before 11.5
15:23:01 <richard> won't block for merging into alpha in the meantime
15:23:01 <PieroV> sure
15:24:43 <richard> alright good good
15:25:30 <richard> boklm: did sysrqb get you all the info needed for android signing, and does it look as scriptable as desktop?
15:26:11 <boklm> richard: I didn't get the info about that from sysrqb yet
15:26:17 <GeKo> fwiw, in emergencies i can sign android stuff as well
15:26:26 <richard> hmm
15:26:28 <GeKo> i have the hardware token and a working tails setup for that
15:27:00 <GeKo> or i had before tails' bullseye upgrade ;)
15:27:25 <richard> ok less than ideal but I'll poke him
15:27:48 <richard> GeKo: hopefully we won't need to call on your aid but you know
15:27:49 <richard> yolo
15:28:04 <GeKo> yeah tor browser is all yolo, i know
15:28:18 <richard> hopefully getting progressively less so
15:28:20 <PieroV> D:
15:28:56 <GeKo> dunno, i feel it got worse over the years...
15:29:16 <GeKo> but maybe we are at peak yolo now or where recently :p
15:29:29 <richard> inshallah
15:31:11 <richard> PieroV: as part of the https-everywhere work in alpha, can you make an MR in tor-browser-build/master to remove packaging the extension?
15:31:33 <PieroV> richard: I thought you wanted to keep it until 12.0
15:32:00 <PieroV> * we thought, or at least we arrived to this conclusion last week
15:32:19 <PieroV> so I've modified the MR to remove .tor.onion from HTTPS-E
15:32:38 <PieroV> But HTTPS-E should possibly be touched to update it
15:33:25 <donuts> I read something at some point that said HTTPS-Only Mode in 11.5 and HTTSP-E removal in 12, but I'm not sure where that came from
15:33:34 <richard> hm so waiting until 12 would be after the esr102 transition right?
15:33:56 <PieroV> yes, but the transition isn't very clear to me
15:34:04 <richard> ok so it'd be showing up in the first 12.0a1 alpha
15:34:21 <donuts> if FPF are happy with the nightly, is there any other reason to delay HTTPS-E's removal?
15:34:32 <richard> tbh that's probably a better idea then having it in alpha for just a month before the 11.5 stable
15:34:48 <richard> fear of change/more testing vOv
15:34:52 <richard> donuts^
15:36:11 <richard> I'm open to either scenario, if you'd rather wait we can delay to first 12 alpha PieroV
15:36:12 <donuts> hrm sure, are we getting dangerously close to actual deprecation though?
15:36:32 <richard> that I do not know
15:37:17 <donuts> either way, I wonder if we should communicate our plans to the HTTPS-E devs
15:37:42 <PieroV> donuts: I've already sent a feedback e-mail about core-lib
15:37:51 <richard> ^that
15:37:55 <donuts> aha great
15:37:57 <PieroV> And basically explained the technical reasons behind my choices
15:38:34 <donuts> also, I know the FPF devs in the tickets have reviewed about:rulesets, but we should make sure there's enough testing of securedrop onions too
15:38:41 <donuts> just in case something's broken
15:38:50 <donuts> in which case, 11.5 doesn't sound very sensible
15:39:11 <donuts> sorry I'm thinking out loud here
15:40:59 <richard> ok, let's put it on hold to the first 12 alpha
15:42:35 <richard> we'll ship the tor manual in alpha for a month and then the 11.5 stable release will be at the start of July
15:43:48 <richard> looks like I need to update the release celendar once again
15:45:11 <richard> boklm: when do you think we can have the work done for building the 'base browser' in tor-browser-build/master (assuming we have it merged and tagged in tor-browser)?
15:45:53 <richard> or rather I guess, how much work will it be to generate the base-browser 'firefox' outputs
15:46:23 <boklm> richard: hmm, I think it should take something like one week
15:47:02 <boklm> do we have it nearly merged/tagged in tor-browser?
15:47:23 <richard> ok, I'll try to get PieroV's rebased alpha branch in and tagged asap after the 11.0.14 release prep
15:47:39 <PieroV> We don't have mozconfigs for it
15:47:55 <PieroV> And the profile thing would be nice, too :)
15:48:01 <PieroV> is the MVP Linux-only?
15:48:13 <richard> my gut says yes
15:48:16 <richard> let me find that spreadsheet
15:48:48 <boklm> wil we use the same name for the branches/tags as tor-browser, replacing `tor-browser-` with `base-browser-`?
15:49:18 <richard> boklm: that sounds like a reasonable system to me
15:50:19 <richard> MVP Base Browser: working Linux testbuilds, best-effort on Windows, macOS testbuilds
15:50:55 <PieroV> richard: I'd say that Mac is the most problematic
15:51:02 <richard> i have a mail w/ questions from s131 that I'll answer/forward to the rest of you for sanity checking today/tomorrow
15:51:13 <richard> PieroV: yeah that would be my expectation as well
15:51:29 <boklm> what is problematic with the mac version?
15:51:34 <PieroV> Especially for the profile directory... And I don't know for signing
15:51:48 <boklm> ah ok
15:51:49 <PieroV> boklm: ^
15:52:35 <richard> well for the MVP we don't need to worry about signing, as it's not supposed to actually go to users
15:53:04 <richard> just to show the sponsor 'here's the thing prototyped, this is what it will more or less look like'
15:53:54 <richard> but anyway, I think I've taken enough of your time
15:54:01 <richard> does anyone have anything else pressing?
15:54:09 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos__> Any suggestions for where I should share the release link that I mentioned on the pad, to hopefully maximize feedback?  Maybe r/Tor and r/Onions?  Other places I don't know about?
15:54:37 <PieroV> Jeremy_Rand_Talos__: I don't have suggestions, but congrats for that :)
15:55:00 <richard> r/tor gets kid of poor quality interactions in my experience, but it may be worth it
15:55:05 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos__> (Feel free to answer in #tor-browser-dev)
15:55:10 <richard> you'll probably find lots of windows users there :3
15:55:39 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos__> PieroV, thanks!  Yeah it's a big release :)
15:55:46 <richard> :)
15:56:10 <richard> ok
15:56:18 <richard> have a good rest of the week everyon
15:56:21 <richard> #endmeeting