15:14:16 <richard> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly 2023-05-30
15:14:16 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May 30 15:14:16 2023 UTC.  The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:14:16 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:14:23 <richard> pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
15:14:33 <boklm> o/
15:16:59 <richard> my only announcement for today is to remind folks to please have a look at the TBA and s131 roadmapping docs I sent out last week
15:17:34 <richard> plans work great when they just live in my head but if there's any obvious problems with the plan best to know and adjust earlier rather than later
15:18:12 <richard> donuts: did you want to hanle your discussion point or hasit been sufficiently resolved offline?
15:18:51 <donuts> richard: I saw you picking it up in the ticket I think? If so no need to discuss it further :)
15:19:38 <richard> wonderful
15:19:51 <ma1> richard, just to be sure, do those 2 email subjects start with "vision" and "mullvad" respectively (date 2023-05-16)
15:20:23 <ma1> (I mean, I'm almost sure I'm looking at the right pads, but double checking)
15:20:24 <henry-x> @richard I don't really know how to estimate the time for the front end implementations. It would depend on how much would need changing for the UX proposal
15:20:32 <richard> the vision doc was a separate thing but hopefully also a good read if you have opinions about it
15:21:44 <richard> henry-x: yeah re: estimates, obviously if is great if we know ahead of time how long something will take but a lot of these things are unknowable until we have completed the dependencies
15:22:04 <donuts> you can up the uncertainty factor in response to that
15:22:06 <boklm> ma1: mail was sent on 2023-05-25
15:22:28 <richard> I'll just send them both out again if you all like
15:22:32 <donuts> https://jacobian.org/2021/may/25/my-estimation-technique/
15:22:42 <richard> oh we also have a handy new semi-private email alias
15:23:04 <richard> which i'm sure you've all noticed
15:23:28 <richard> but yeah re estimates and uncertainty, etc
15:23:29 <ma1> richard, yes please, I can't find anything from you dated 2023-05-25
15:24:11 <henry-x> What is the semi-private email alias?
15:24:22 <PieroV> ma1: maybe you're not in that alias
15:24:38 <ma1> PieroV, I've ponged to a ping, I guess it was that
15:24:51 <donuts> I'm not sure whether or not I'm on the alias, but I'm not sure I know about it either :)
15:25:01 <PieroV> Yes but I haven't received your pong ma1
15:25:09 <PieroV> donuts: I don't think you need to be on it usually
15:25:17 <richard> posted in tor-internal
15:25:18 <PieroV> It's like for Mullvad to tell us they have something to fix
15:25:30 <PieroV> With a certain emergency
15:25:36 <PieroV> Or to tell us to go ahead and sign the builds
15:25:36 <ma1> ah. I'll investigate later the mailing list thing, but richard resent the roadmaps in the mewanwhile :)
15:25:37 <donuts> ah okay gotcha
15:25:56 <richard> sorry for the shady secrecy, but it would prefer it not turn into torbrowser@ttorproject.org
15:26:08 <richard> which is a cesspool of spam and phishing attempts and SEO scam
15:26:21 <PieroV> I insisted that it was better to include all the devs, so in case of problems also those who cannot sign can fix the problems
15:26:35 <PieroV> I didn't even know of that address lol
15:27:27 <dan_b> ha sounds good
15:29:22 <PieroV> richard: do we have any update from Digicert?
15:29:29 <PieroV> We're going to release 12.0.7 in a week
15:29:39 <richard> ah yes Digicert
15:29:49 <ma1> (a good way to get rid of those pesky Windows users)
15:29:56 <richard> so for those following along at home
15:30:00 <richard> we went to renew our windows cert
15:30:19 <richard> only to discover we hadn't upated the org's contact info after the phone and official address changed
15:30:31 <richard> normally this is easy to update becuase one just check against 3rd party sources
15:30:39 <richard> but beause the transition was so recent no 3rd party sources have the new info
15:31:00 <richard> so we had to get a lawyer involved to verify with digicert that our contact details are what we claim
15:31:01 <richard> that is done
15:31:18 <richard> NOW they need to do the usual verification that someone at Tor Project hasn't gone rogue re the cert request
15:31:36 <richard> that verification is happening this afternoon with a call to the official Tor phone
15:31:41 <dan_b> lol signing certs sure feel scammy to me. almost feels like we should have tried one last renewel with old, wrong, but verifiable details?
15:32:08 <richard> dan_b: the problem is the old phone number doesn't exist (for us anyway) anymore
15:32:18 <dan_b> haaaaaa and they'd still call it to verify
15:32:19 <dan_b> sigh
15:32:21 <richard> so this last step wouldn't have been possible
15:32:25 <dan_b> fantastic
15:32:33 <richard> so... soon
15:32:38 <PieroV> Let's hope we get it for 12.0.7
15:33:03 <richard> yeah here's hoping
15:33:11 <dan_b> process wise.. is there process for when we move official office and ph#? cus we should have a step where if it were to happen again they pester us to start this process earlier?
15:33:23 <richard> i'll poke them tomorrow AM about getting the cert renewed once verificatoin has occurred his afternoon
15:33:53 <richard> re process for this kin of thing, no not really
15:34:15 <PieroV> I think it's something to better coordinate with HR/accounting
15:34:27 <richard> i only just got access to our apple developer portal thingy with sufficient permissions to see how we are for apple code signing (we're good there for at least a year)
15:34:45 <richard> but add it to the list of docs we/me needs to write
15:36:12 <richard> ok, anything else from anyone?
15:36:19 <PieroV> Yes
15:36:21 <PieroV> I certainly do :P
15:36:30 <PieroV> We have 102.12 tags
15:36:39 <richard> right on schdule :D
15:36:52 <PieroV> I did the rebase because I started with Tor Browser rebase to 115, and squashing commits always helps
15:37:08 <PieroV> The bot decided to ask review to ma1, who's already reviewed everything on May
15:37:28 <PieroV> Anyone wants to take them instead of him? Any volunteers for MB rebases and TB+MB release preps?
15:37:52 <ma1> (oh, BTW, PieroV yesterday taught me a new prep skill :D )
15:37:53 <PieroV> (probably we should wait for alpha preparation, since they're going to be RC, according to our plans)
15:38:21 <PieroV> Also, 102.11 branches have been closed for merges, so please retarget any MR to 102.12 (well, after MRs will be approved)
15:38:53 <PieroV> Also, we have some MRs from the community (I think cypherpunk1 all of them). Should we ask them to retarget 13.0?
15:38:54 <richard> i can review the TB rebase after this meeeting
15:39:09 <richard> yeah I can take care of that sa well
15:39:22 <richard> i saw the torrent of MRs coming in over the past week
15:39:41 <ma1> by cypherpunkS1
15:39:51 <PieroV> (I can also prep, in case, asking especially for bus factor raising)
15:41:37 <richard> i shoul be able to get the MB stable rebase+release prep in toady as well
15:41:55 <PieroV> ack, I can review + build tomorrow
15:42:15 <richard> where are we re MB 12.5a6?
15:42:24 <PieroV> I'm waiting for you ^_^;
15:42:29 <richard> curses
15:42:29 <PieroV> I have posted hashes
15:42:34 <richard> ok perfect
15:42:43 <richard> iirc i fired that off building over the weekend
15:42:50 <PieroV> So you wrote :)
15:42:52 <richard> if they match i'll sign and ping rui
15:43:03 <PieroV> ack, I need to sign the hash files, too, in case
15:43:35 <PieroV> We've had at least one MR merged in tor-brower-build, in the meantime (Go bootstrap project)
15:43:40 <PieroV> But it doesn't affect MB
15:43:52 <richard> right, no Go there (yet)
15:44:34 <PieroV> Finally, if we're done with 102.12, I have a couple of questions re 115
15:45:18 <richard> yes how goes the 115 work
15:45:18 <PieroV> We're getting 115 beta tags soon, too. I think we can wait until the first MR is approved
15:45:37 <PieroV> Unless anyone else has a different preference
15:46:02 <PieroV> 115 is going great, we have working desktop builds, a working GV, but I stopped with Android toolchain, until we have working dev builds
15:46:20 <PieroV> Because we'll need new projects and to review all the other related projects
15:46:28 <PieroV> I've rebased MB, and got the first binaries
15:46:43 <PieroV> I've started with Tor Browser
15:48:43 <richard> confirmed was able to build/run 115 base-browser last week :)
15:49:02 <richard> that all sounds good and promising
15:51:55 <henry-x> Are we going to go through the [FF115 issues](https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/?state=all&label_name%5B%5D=FF115-esr) *after* the rebase is complete and landed in the tor-browser repo?
15:52:05 <PieroV> Yes
15:52:20 <PieroV> With regular MRs
15:52:25 <richard> mmhm
15:52:35 <henry-x> ok, cool
15:52:42 <PieroV> It's too much to review, otherwise, imho
15:52:45 <richard> also coming down the pipe is the great task audit
15:53:01 <richard> bugzilla resolved issue audit*
15:53:49 <richard> ok, anything else before we end this?
15:54:02 <PieroV> Nope, I'm done
15:54:03 <henry-x> I have something to ask/say
15:54:08 <richard> go for it!
15:55:29 <henry-x> since tor-browser has some git patterns that are unusual, I've written a python script that helps with some common tasks. Does anyone else have something like this? And would people be interested in me sharing what I have?
15:55:51 <richard> yes please
15:56:12 <richard> this is precisly the kind of thing that shoul live in tor-browser.git/tools/torbrowser
15:56:20 <PieroV> +1; I thought of writing a diff-of-diffs automation, but I haven't got to it, yet
15:56:38 <dan_b> oooh +1
15:56:43 <ma1> +1 :)
15:56:55 <henry-x> ok, I can open a merge request and add it to /tools/torbrowser
15:57:21 <richard> I would like the days of 'oh yeah i have a script/bash alias/summoning ritual for that' to be a thing of the past please
15:58:16 <boklm> you mean one that is not in git?
15:58:19 <PieroV> (it's the hour and now there's another meeting)
15:58:26 <richard> boklm: yeah exactly
15:58:28 <richard> scripts in git is goo
15:58:31 <richard> good*
15:58:40 <richard> but yes
15:58:47 <richard> have a good week everyone!
15:58:51 <richard> sorry next team!
15:58:52 <PieroV> Thanks! o/
15:58:53 <richard> #endmeeting