15:00:47 <morganava> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2024-09-23
15:00:47 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Sep 23 15:00:47 2024 UTC.  The chair is morganava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:47 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:59 <dan_b> o/
15:01:03 <morganava> good bot
15:01:09 <morganava> hi folks
15:01:24 <morganava> pad as usual -> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
15:02:01 <jwilde> o/
15:02:12 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> hi!
15:02:26 <morganava> this week is *tentatively* scheduled an RC1 alpha release
15:02:52 <morganava> last I looked we had ~9 or so mozilla review tickets
15:03:19 <morganava> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/?sort=updated_desc&state=opened&search=Review%20Mozilla&label_name%5B%5D=14.0%20stable&first_page_size=100
15:03:25 <catladyfelicia> o/
15:03:46 <tjr> o/
15:03:48 <morganava> if you have some freetime, please have a look and see if you can steal any of these
15:03:59 <morganava> hello hello everyone o/
15:04:35 <morganava> last week the build failed seemingly due to some intermittent remote repo issue so it took a few goes
15:04:43 <donuts> o/
15:04:47 <morganava> but we got there in the end after some delay
15:05:11 <morganava> jwilde: what's the status on the webrtc/mingw patch?
15:06:07 <jwilde> I've got an updated version of the patch to push up this morning. working on the final two errors in the build for IID_IGraphicsCaptureSession2 and IDirect3DDxgiInterfaceAccess
15:06:47 <brizental> o/
15:07:33 <morganava> brizental: does anyone need to be poked/hassled for setting up the gitlab runners?
15:08:08 <morganava> ma1: I may page you to look at the mingw patch, since it's primarily C++ (though of the windows COM variety so vOv)
15:08:38 <ma1> ack
15:08:49 <brizental> morganava: we are still discussing how they are going to be setup. there was a counter proposal last week to approach i posted in my snippet, but i have some questions around it which are stil under discussion
15:09:34 <brizental> if anyone here has opinions on cronjobs and docker images, please chime in https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/tpa/team/-/issues/41765#note_3081587
15:09:51 <morganava> jwilde: ok if possible i'd like to have it at least building in nightlies this week so we can run through the webrtc testsuite
15:10:01 <brizental> this is the current discussion, the original proposal is in this "snippet": https://gitlab.torproject.org/-/snippets/204
15:11:11 <brizental> i guess this is as a good a time as any to let the wider team know we are planning on creating gitlab runners inside of the build machines... so if anyone has strong opinions on that then they should also chime in to those discussions...
15:11:35 <morganava> tb-build-02, tb-build-03
15:12:04 <morganava> tldr; if you're a heavy user of these it's possible your work may be affected depending on how we configure the gitlab runners
15:12:51 <morganava> so maybe look forward ot some pain that we have to fix late,r or maybe nobody will notice any change vOV
15:13:06 <brizental> fingers crossed for no one noticing anything :D
15:13:06 <morganava> any other announcements or discussion points? questions or concerns?
15:14:24 <ruihildt[m]> o/ I have added a discussion point.
15:15:32 <ruihildt[m]> But that can wait until the end.
15:16:03 <morganava> i think we're at the end ^^;
15:16:09 <ruihildt[m]> If there's time left
15:16:14 <ma1> and the point is fairly long :)
15:16:22 <morganava> ah hah found it
15:17:19 <henry-x> I have a short thing to request
15:17:38 <morganava> go for it henry-x
15:17:50 <morganava> while I read rui's point :3
15:17:52 <henry-x> can donutsand morganavalook at tor-browser#43125 today.
15:18:30 <henry-x> We need to get a new message in for the people who are on the extended 13.5 release
15:20:53 <morganava> henry-x: we should be able to get that in the next release
15:21:14 <henry-x> it is more about giving translators a little bit of time as well
15:21:35 <morganava> and PieroV should be back Wed as well to review the watershed update
15:21:49 <morganava> right, presuming donuts likes the strings i'll get those merged asdap
15:21:52 <morganava> asap*
15:22:25 <morganava> ruihildt[m]: we should probably chat about this as well and get official confirmation from you as well
15:22:28 <ruihildt[m]> BTW, what is my to get the translation included for MB 14.0?
15:22:34 <ruihildt[m]> *deadline
15:22:46 <donuts> morganava/henry-x: looking at it today 👍
15:23:25 <ruihildt[m]> We follow whatever you do, as we don't support those platforms officially anyway.
15:23:27 <morganava> does mullvad also want to keep the extended windows+macOS support for 135?
15:24:03 <ruihildt[m]> So that would mean running 13.5 and 14.0 side by side until EOL?
15:24:21 <morganava> we're intending to keep 13.5 going until at least march (which is the new deadline for EOL)
15:24:27 <morganava> yeah exactly
15:24:39 <morganava> so this deprecation is still going to happen just sometime in the future
15:25:03 <ruihildt[m]> Ok, I'm gonna need to double check, but I don't think we want that. Once 14.0 is out, we don't need 13.5.
15:25:07 <morganava> have you had much user feedback re the legacy windows support?
15:25:14 <ruihildt[m]> None
15:25:16 <morganava> that would be *preferable* :3
15:26:06 <ruihildt[m]> I have a hard time to get testing done timely already, so I'm pretty sure we don't want multiple stable versions.
15:27:20 <morganava> it would be helpful iff your qa team also started testing alpha starting w/ RC1 before the final release
15:27:44 <henry-x> Can we get a support article explaining the situation? Then in Tor Browser I can point the users to the article via "Learn more", with more information and a guide. But I would need to know the url before the next 13.5 release.
15:28:14 <morganava> donuts: sounds like perhaps an championquizzer thing?
15:28:58 <ruihildt[m]> Re: what is my deadline to get the translation included for MB 14.0?
15:29:06 <donuts> morganava: yep, have added this to the agenda for the UX team meeting
15:29:34 <morganava> ruihildt: we're currently planning on 14.0 no earlier than October 14
15:29:35 <morganava> but
15:29:48 <morganava> given the extended support for 13.5, it can be pushed back
15:29:58 <ruihildt[m]> (fyi MB 14.0a6 testing is nearly done)
15:30:01 <morganava> without consequence
15:30:08 <morganava> (beyond Linux-specific backports argh)
15:30:42 <ruihildt[m]> ack
15:31:08 <morganava> so realistically initially no later than October 10 for us to build and sign presuming we hit that deadline
15:31:45 <donuts> morganava: can you include a strong call to action to volunteer as an alpha tester in your RC1 release post please, and link to the onboarding page on the Community portal?
15:31:57 <morganava> yes and yes
15:32:04 <donuts> ty and ty :)
15:32:22 <donuts> we'll follow up with the comms/forum parts after it's out
15:32:41 <donuts> here's the link, for ref: https://community.torproject.org/user-research/become-tester/
15:33:09 <morganava> i think i included that link in the most recent blog post :D
15:33:57 <donuts> perfect! <3
15:35:27 <morganava> ruihildt: ok, this is a good list of things
15:37:09 <morganava> can you copy over into a ~Meta labeled ticket in Mullvad Browser so we don't lose all the links
15:38:24 <ruihildt[m]> Sure, it's just for thoughts.
15:38:33 <morganava> part of me wonders if the 3rd party 'default browser picker app' approach is actually he smart way to handle this
15:39:27 <ma1> but... like educating users or shipping one of those products?
15:39:33 <ruihildt[m]> I think it could be, that just means we would need to audit one (and that means it wouldn't need to be on the browser team at all^^).
15:39:55 <morganava> ma1: no idea, just meant from a technical perspective :p
15:40:06 <morganava> the shim approach I mean
15:41:05 <ma1> ah yes, that would be my (personal) preference from a UX perspective as well.
15:41:24 <morganava> well in any event, something we can think about post 14.0
15:41:40 <ruihildt[m]> From a user and onboarding perspective, removing friction is always nice. So having only one thing to install would be easier.
15:42:07 <morganava> and come up with technical/design proposals, but this is a good starting point
15:42:09 <ruihildt[m]> Maybe it's possible to ship two executable as a package?
15:42:26 <morganava> ruihildt[m]: yeah def a possibility
15:43:22 <ruihildt[m]> tbh I was surprised to find there were so many options and existing software
15:43:38 <ruihildt[m]> I didn't list all of them, just a selection that were interesting/up to date.
15:43:40 <morganava> yeah me too actually
15:43:50 <morganava> but it does seem a logical thing to be developed :p
15:44:38 <morganava> ok, any other urgent blockers or discussion points for this week?
15:44:39 <ruihildt[m]> I'm definitely going to try one, just to better understand the whole flow.
15:45:02 <morganava> ruihildt[m
15:45:19 <morganava> : I reckon screenshots of the user flows, pain points, etc may be helpful
15:45:47 <morganava> if you're planning on a survey of these solutions
15:45:49 <ruihildt[m]> ack, will put that on my todo sometimes
15:46:39 <ruihildt[m]> I'd probably like to test flows based on threat models
15:47:53 <morganava> perhaps a separate (long) discussion, but have you put much thought into forking the TB design/requriements doc for MB?
15:48:09 <ruihildt[m]> I was waiting for you to be finished :D
15:49:31 <morganava> 😬
15:49:57 <morganava> fair enough
15:50:11 <emmapeel> ey ruihildt[m] i am fighting with crodwin again, cant remember how i managed to do it last time but i have hopes!
15:50:18 <ruihildt[m]> But very interested.
15:52:06 <morganava> rui: iirc what remains is revamping the build reproducibility section (which is most likely would be identical between the two browsers anyway); i think implementation details were going to be moved to a separate (more) living doc
15:52:09 <morganava> in any case
15:52:22 <ruihildt[m]> emmapeel: I send you good vibes.
15:54:11 <ruihildt[m]> morganava: I'll start looking at it, I went over it last some times ago
15:55:01 <morganava> henry-x: i think users are probably going to end up seeing that deprecation string, unless we push out a 13.5 this weeek
15:55:14 <morganava> which i'd *rather* not do since the next 115 esr is scheduled for next week
15:55:24 <morganava> but there may be no way aorund it
15:56:22 <morganava> hmm in any event
15:56:34 <morganava> if there's nothing else let us end this meeting
15:56:38 <morganava> have a good week folks o/
15:57:46 <ruihildt[m]> cheers!
15:58:08 <donuts> o/
15:58:13 <morganava> ok back
15:58:21 <morganava> have a good week folks o/
15:58:23 <catladyfelicia> o/
15:58:25 <morganava> #endmeeting