16:00:01 <morganava> #startmeeting Applications Team Weekly Meeting 2025-02-10
16:00:01 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Feb 10 16:00:01 2025 UTC.  The chair is morganava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:00:09 <morganava> aww off by a second
16:00:14 <morganava> damn
16:00:25 <morganava> hello everyone to another weekly meeting
16:00:27 <boklm> o/
16:00:28 <brizental[m]> o/
16:00:36 <morganava> today's pad per usual -> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
16:00:40 <dan_b> o/
16:00:42 <ma1> o/
16:00:53 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> Hi!
16:01:39 <morganava> last week we had a really fun crash in macOS due to a fun interaction between Apple frameworks, our toolchains, and Mozilla's webRTC backports
16:02:05 <morganava> fortunatley PieroV figured out a fix and we published an emergency 14.0.6 late last week
16:02:24 <morganava> on the docket for this week if 14.5a3
16:02:52 <dan_b> esh
16:02:57 <PieroV> And upstream accepted our patch already :) We'll see if they uplift to 128
16:02:58 <dan_b> that sounded unpleasant
16:03:39 <PieroV> BTW, should we use ld64 in tor-browser.git's mozconfig, or in tor-browser-build's?
16:04:21 <morganava> I'm planning on building overnight tonight so if you've any MRs you'd like to get in please poke me to ensure they get reviewed and merged before i tag
16:04:59 <morganava> PieroV: I don't think I've an opinion either way, does anyone else have intuition on which is better/more maintainable?
16:05:01 <boklm> PieroV: hmm, not sure. Both look fine.
16:05:21 <PieroV> It depends on whether we want also local builds to pick ld64
16:05:38 <PieroV> For Linux IIRC we put to use lld in tor-browser.git
16:05:47 <morganava> ooh
16:05:59 <morganava> in theory than clairehurst should have hit this same crash wiht a local dev build?
16:06:08 <PieroV> I don't think so
16:06:16 <PieroV> Unless she's running an old macOS version for some reason
16:06:24 <PieroV> This happened on macOS versions older than 12.3
16:06:49 <morganava> oh right duh
16:06:53 <PieroV> So, 10.15.x, 11.x and 12.1, 12.2 and maybe 12.3 (I don't remember if the latter is included)
16:06:55 <clairehurst> Yeah I try to keep it updated
16:07:24 <morganava> well still, given this dimension we should probably try and have dev builds match tbb builds as much as possible
16:08:14 <PieroV> ack, I'll open an issue in tor-browser.git then
16:09:39 <morganava> ok, that's the only notable news+announcements I have on my plate
16:10:26 <morganava> do you all have any discussion points, is anyone blocked on anything, any MRs collecting dust, that sort of thing I can help with?
16:11:04 <morganava> oh actually one more bit of news, there seems to be confirmation that we'll be doing ESR115 through at least September 2025
16:11:15 <PieroV> booo
16:11:17 <morganava> at least, that's how long Mozilla is planning on maintainig support
16:11:32 <ma1> can we send DOGE at Mozilla to delete the esr115 branch?
16:11:40 <morganava> if you know a Windos 7 IRL, please make thems witch to Linux please and thank you :p
16:11:45 <PieroV> No need to delete, just freeze :)
16:11:52 <ma1> woodchipper
16:11:53 <morganava> ma1: no idea if mozilla even takes crypto donations lol
16:12:00 <morganava> i suppose they must
16:12:12 <ma1> ah ah
16:12:20 <dan_b> can we change the ESR label to TLS?
16:12:27 <PieroV> morganava: there was some scandal about Moz and cryptos at a certain point IIRC
16:12:31 <dan_b> we have stats on how many folks are still on win7?
16:12:35 <ma1> "Too Long Support"?
16:12:43 <dan_b> er LTS lol
16:12:55 * Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m] remembers the scandal that PieroV refers to, it was incredibly on-brand for Mozilla
16:13:07 <PieroV> dan_b: so, theoretically if we differentiated between updater endpoint we could know
16:13:17 <PieroV> But I don't remember if we have that data, or we simply drop it
16:13:26 <morganava> dan_b: that's a good question which hiro maybe could help us identify given we have grafana dashboards with dl stats for our TB artifacts
16:13:26 <PieroV> I asked in tpo/whatever/metrics at a certain point
16:13:39 <PieroV> I mean, I opened an issue
16:13:47 <PieroV> Because I don't think we have a dashboard we can use for that
16:13:50 <PieroV> But we could create it
16:13:57 * dan_b also remembers that "scandal" and thought it was a bit dumb on the communities side
16:15:09 * Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m] vaguely recalls asking in a meeting here many months ago whether we've actually tried asking Win7 users what they'll do when we drop Win7 support
16:15:33 <dan_b> we have a win7 warning banner already? we could add a link to info gathering
16:15:39 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> Seeing as I know at least one person who told me they plan to switch to Linux but they are putting it off until Tor Browser drops Win7
16:15:51 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> And I wonder how common that is
16:15:58 <dan_b> lol wow really? that's cool!
16:16:06 <morganava> curious info but not really sure what actionable info we could get out of it
16:16:28 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> morganava: well, it's actionable in the sense of, why are we maintaining Win7 support at all?
16:16:34 <dan_b> well if we only have 5 users and 3 are gonna switch, mmaybe we could drop it early
16:16:42 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> Presumably because we're worried Win7 users will be insecure when we drop support?
16:16:53 <morganava> hmm fair
16:16:56 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> But if they're planning to drop Win7 for Linux (or even Win10) as soon as that happens
16:17:03 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> That changes our calculus, right?
16:17:16 <morganava> well i more meant the info would only make us drop earlier rather than when mozilla does
16:17:35 <dan_b> or we just don't have any, maybe our user's are more up todate than moz's wider reach user base
16:17:41 <morganava> but iirc community expressed a lot of global south users are basically stuck on win7 for w/e reason
16:17:50 <morganava> anyway i'm sure there's a bit gitlab issue about it somewhere
16:18:00 <dan_b> oph
16:18:04 <morganava> i'll bring it up alicia next time i talk to her
16:19:49 <morganava> alright, any other topics for discussion?
16:20:43 <PieroV> Nothing from me
16:21:10 * Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m] is back from travel, btw
16:21:20 <Jeremy_Rand_Lab19[m]> good to see you guys on IRC again :)
16:21:33 <morganava> :)
16:22:30 <morganava> ok then
16:23:01 <morganava> in that case have a good week everyone, see you all on the internet o/
16:23:03 <morganava> #endmeeting