18:01:58 <GeKo> #startmeeting tba-a2 18:01:58 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Sep 11 18:01:58 2018 UTC. The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:58 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:02:06 <sysrqb> Phoul: i think they're in the other room 18:02:15 <GeKo> oh, it works even, nice 18:02:25 <antonela> o/ 18:02:30 <Phoul> sysrqb: thanks 18:02:37 <sysrqb> :) 18:02:54 <t0mmy> Hey hey! 18:03:00 <GeKo> seems we miss igt0 here 18:03:17 <sisbell> hey 18:03:25 <GeKo> t0mmy: i gues you like to be in the manuial meeting? 18:03:28 <GeKo> *guess 18:03:33 <GeKo> that's next door 18:03:36 <GeKo> :) 18:03:38 <t0mmy> GeKo yep, sorry :) 18:03:47 <antonela> haha 18:03:47 <GeKo> ah, no worries 18:04:44 <GeKo> alright, should we wait for igt0 or should we start? 18:05:06 <sysrqb> maybe 1 more minute? 18:06:46 <sysrqb> okay, igt0 can catch up, i think 18:06:56 <GeKo> yo 18:07:04 <GeKo> we have https://pad.riseup.net/p/nlhgUPXcS8SK 18:07:27 <GeKo> i think we need two additional alpha releases 18:07:35 <GeKo> and grouped items around them 18:08:02 <GeKo> does that make sense from a birds-eye-view? 18:09:06 <GeKo> i tried to associate folks to particular work areas but that's still open for moving around 18:09:07 <sisbell> makes sense 18:09:24 <sysrqb> yes 18:09:29 <GeKo> so, it's not set in stone yet and i am open to suggestions 18:10:02 <GeKo> i think we can move the f-droid item to the update story item 18:10:25 <GeKo> and we should probably aim that for the second alpha 18:10:43 <sysrqb> ah, yes. i wasn't sure what you meant by "update story" 18:10:51 <sysrqb> now i understand :) 18:11:05 <GeKo> :) 18:11:10 <antonela> sorry, what is the update story? 18:11:12 <GeKo> well, it's part of it 18:11:18 <antonela> moving users from orfox? 18:11:21 <GeKo> how we plan to provide updates 18:11:26 <antonela> ohh ok 18:11:26 <GeKo> for tor browser for android 18:11:28 <antonela> thanks 18:11:38 <GeKo> let me rewrite that 18:11:57 <sysrqb> migration from orfox to TBA is another pice of this puzzle 18:12:03 <sysrqb> piece 18:12:12 <GeKo> yes 18:12:20 <GeKo> when do we want to have that ready 18:12:28 <GeKo> is that for a2 or a3? 18:14:12 <GeKo> sysrqb: what's the plan anyway with orfox until we have tba ready? 18:14:34 <GeKo> do we announce (now) that it is deprecated as it is based on esr52 18:14:41 <GeKo> and there are no security updates anymore? 18:15:20 <sysrqb> i've been thinking about this. 18:15:38 <sysrqb> orfox is in a bad situation 18:15:46 <GeKo> yes 18:15:53 <sysrqb> i'm worries about migrating users to TBA now 18:17:10 <sisbell> could they do release of orfox that contains information about migrating to TBA (maybe a nag option) 18:17:43 <sysrqb> well, i don't think TBA ia ready for everyone right now 18:18:09 <sysrqb> so we currently have a situation where the old thing shouldn't be used 18:18:13 <sysrqb> but the new thing isn't ready yet 18:18:31 <sysrqb> but i guess the new thing is better than nothing, hopefully? 18:19:06 <sysrqb> but, at the same time, if the new thing isn't stable for some users, then they'll stop using it entirely and never try it again in 6 months, after the stable release is published 18:19:10 <sysrqb> hey igt 18:19:27 <sysrqb> err, igt0 18:19:31 <igt0> hi! 18:20:00 <GeKo> hihi 18:20:26 <GeKo> sysrqb: so when do we want to tackle the migration piece? 18:20:56 <GeKo> given the big items in any of the alpha milestones to come 18:21:09 <GeKo> it seems there is always the risk we will break stuff (badly) 18:21:22 <GeKo> or should we wait after a3? 18:21:59 <sysrqb> i think a2 is a good target 18:22:19 <sysrqb> it should be more stable than a1 and it won't be worse than orfox 18:22:56 <sysrqb> we don't have f-droid ready by then, but i think that's okay 18:23:25 <GeKo> okay, let me add this as a should item and for a3 as a must one 18:23:28 <sysrqb> igt0: http://meetbot.debian.net/tor-meeting2/2018/tor-meeting2.2018-09-11-18.01.log.txt (backlog, btw) 18:23:42 <sysrqb> okay, sounds good 18:24:52 <GeKo> hm, localized builds 18:25:26 <GeKo> i guess i could work on that while working on #27466 18:25:34 <GeKo> as i noted on #26483 18:25:41 <GeKo> so, we could add it to the a2 list 18:26:20 <sysrqb> yeah, i believe a2 was the target for (starting to) provide them 18:26:57 <igt0> about localized builds there is also the "issue" how to use tor button localized data on mobile. Because Android has its own localized strings. 18:27:23 <GeKo> yes, we need to solve that while we are at it 18:30:13 <GeKo> igt0: is that #26782? 18:30:41 <GeKo> or do we need an additional ticket for that specific part? 18:31:36 <sysrqb> i thik there was another ticket, too 18:32:03 <igt0> Probably we need an additional ticket. 18:32:15 <GeKo> hm, okay don't find it right now while skimming tbb-mobile ones, will look later 18:33:06 <GeKo> i feel that using necko and the other build might be out of scope for 1.0 18:33:27 <GeKo> i mean could try to have the arm and x86 builds ready for a3 (or just one of them) 18:33:43 <GeKo> but i think it's more important to not delay tba further 18:34:44 <sisbell> which version of arm are we targeting 18:34:46 <sysrqb> okay, no, i was remembering #27125 18:34:53 <sysrqb> i think we do need another ticket for torbutton 18:35:06 <GeKo> okay, i'll file one latre 18:35:09 <GeKo> *later 18:35:24 <sysrqb> sisbell: arm-linux-androideabi 18:35:56 <sysrqb> adding another arch is actually quite easy 18:36:51 <sysrqb> we only replace the `ac_add_options --target=` line with the different arch 18:36:59 <GeKo> well, i would not be surprised running in different reproducibility issues 18:37:08 <GeKo> (given past experiences :) ) 18:37:11 <sysrqb> yes, that may be true 18:37:22 <sysrqb> we'll see when to-browser-build is ready :) 18:37:40 <GeKo> but i am fine giving it a try once the whole thing is ready for what we are targetting now 18:37:43 <GeKo> yep 18:37:53 <GeKo> okay, let's add it as a should for a3 18:38:00 <sysrqb> okay 18:39:16 <GeKo> i can go over tickets and doing some triage, too, but i guess that could wait for mexico where we probably hammer down the details 18:40:09 <GeKo> antonela: do we have special ux items we should take into account? 18:40:28 <GeKo> apart from the more abstract "UX parity to desktop"? 18:40:33 <antonela> yes, onion padlock and circuit display is part of the ux parity 18:40:44 <GeKo> yep 18:40:45 <antonela> and i would like to give a review on it -> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/attachment/ticket/25764/25764-5.png 18:41:18 <GeKo> s/give/have/? 18:41:27 <antonela> basically a few months ago we finished with it in desktop with a question about if we will match the icon at the url bar and the icon at the circuit display 18:41:39 <igt0> antonela, about it, could you also add an example how it should look on a tablet? (portraint and landscape) 18:41:47 * antonela founds https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/23247#comment:66 18:42:07 <antonela> igt0 you already have it attached on the ticket 18:42:11 <antonela> let me find it 18:42:33 <antonela> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/attachment/ticket/25764/24309%20-%20tba%20-%20tablets.png 18:43:03 <antonela> GeKo, sorry have :) 18:43:35 <GeKo> yes, i think having the onion there is a good idea 18:43:54 <GeKo> do we have a follow-up bug for that on desktop? 18:44:36 <antonela> i didn't fill that ticket, but i have it remaining in my back brain 18:44:52 <GeKo> :) 18:45:06 <antonela> i included a circuit display and onion padlock review for mexico, so this small details are part of that review 18:45:17 <GeKo> i can file it later, so that we all have it in our front brain :) 18:45:29 <antonela> thanks :) 18:46:10 <GeKo> antonela: okay, does the proposed stuff for a2 and a3 work for you from an ux pov? 18:46:19 <GeKo> or do we need to get items added? 18:46:45 <antonela> nono, that is all 18:47:11 <antonela> igt0 you ok about those items? 18:47:42 <igt0> antonela, yep! 18:47:50 <antonela> cool 18:48:36 <GeKo> okay, then we have the version numbering item on the pad 18:50:08 <GeKo> hm. 18:50:48 <GeKo> i mean we could use 8.5aX as a version number aiming for having tba live in the 8.5 cylce 18:50:51 <GeKo> or near it 18:50:56 <GeKo> *cycle 18:51:24 <GeKo> especially as we want to have the same version numbers across plattforms later on anyway 18:51:30 <GeKo> *platforms 18:52:18 <GeKo> dunno, i don't have strong opinions about the when and how 18:52:25 <GeKo> i'd leave this for later 18:52:58 <sysrqb> when would 8.5 become stable? 18:53:16 <GeKo> we could be flexible here. it's not set yet 18:53:25 <GeKo> or we could even make it dependent on tba 18:53:33 <sysrqb> okay, that's good 18:53:40 <sysrqb> i'm okay with this plan right now 18:54:01 <GeKo> usually it's been about two release before we needed to start with the esr60 transition 18:54:21 <GeKo> to have some time to work on major new things for X.5 18:54:40 <GeKo> and then have those out of the way when we slowly need to start with a new esr preparation 18:54:52 <sysrqb> hrm so 68.0esr is due out 2019-07-08 18:55:00 <GeKo> but i guess that would be too late for tba getting stable this time 18:55:01 <GeKo> yes 18:55:17 <GeKo> (at least i hope it would :) ) 18:55:25 <sysrqb> yes :) 18:55:43 <GeKo> but we can cross that bridge later on 18:55:53 <sysrqb> yeah 18:55:58 <GeKo> in general i am fine binding the 8.5 release to the tba progress 18:56:10 <sysrqb> okay, cool 18:56:27 <GeKo> (although i hope we have a bunch of major items ready by then like #3600) 18:56:51 <GeKo> okay, does the pad sound like a good plan? 18:56:58 <GeKo> or is there something missing right now? 18:57:09 <antonela> sounds like a plan, which is good! 18:57:51 <sysrqb> sounds like a good plan for me right now! 18:58:59 <antonela> today, a major newspaper in latam released an article about tba 18:59:12 <antonela> https://www.infobae.com/america/tecno/2018/09/10/llega-tor-para-android-como-navegar-desde-el-celular-sin-que-nadie-te-espie/ 18:59:27 <GeKo> igt0: sisbell: are you fine with the pad items as well? 18:59:28 <sysrqb> woah 19:00:27 <sysrqb> :) 19:00:33 <antonela> (: 19:01:16 <igt0> GeKo, yep, it makes sense. 19:02:11 <GeKo> okay, i think we are done here. anything else? 19:02:31 <sisbell> it looks ok 19:02:31 <antonela> im groot 19:02:32 <sysrqb> nothign from me 19:02:38 <sysrqb> antonela: :) 19:02:38 <antonela> thanks people! congrats for this release! 19:02:44 <GeKo> thanks all! 19:02:46 <GeKo> #endmeeting